96 replies to this topic

[AztecD]

Awesome 8Q




PPC's are fine if you know what you are doing, its not an easy weapon, but yea

[chucklesMuch]

I hadn't really used them that much until recently when I Bought a BW (hero sale) and two other Warhammers to complete the set ...and then decided go all in on the WHM-6R with quad PPC. (The quirks really sold be on it; +50% vel, -15% PPC heat gen, -10% Energy heat gen).

Has been really fun for a change and 2x 20 damage to a component of your choice is brillant! - I wouldn't have done it without the quirks and its very inconvenient if an enemy gets within 90 metres.

[Dirkdaring]

Mad-3R. 2xPPC, 2xAC5

[Kubernetes]

Raso, on 01 June 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

The problem with the PPCs, as I see it, isn't that they are bad but that they aren't the best and don't do anything the LPL doesn't do better and with less heat.

You think that, but is it true? It's not for me. PPCs and ERPPCs (on quirked chassis) work better for me than LPLs, both damage per shot taken and damage per shot that hits.

People are so caught up in the superiority of the laser vomit meta they forget the awesome advantages of PPFLD (with no charge up and no ballistic drop). In many many situations I've found that my ERPPC mech just wipes the floor with laser vomit. They have to keep poking out for >1 sec to get a full burn in, whereas I just need a fraction of a second to fling a shot their way before I'm back in cover. The alpha is small, but after a few trades they're wrecked and I'm barely scratched.

[Sickocrow]

I'd like to try them out more, but as soon as a good light pilot sees your PPC heavy they rush you and stay under your 90m envelope. Get rid of the 90m short range and I think you'd find a lot more people using them. Also as others have said Convergence is an issue leading a target at range unless the mounts are stacked. Like when I try it on the 5D Rifleman because you have to mount the PPCs on the arms, unless the target is wide and slow, one PPC can sometimes miss.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think it would help if PPCs had a more relaxed minimum range. Maybe instead of no damage under 90m, it did half the damage or a quarter of the damage.

I think (if i remember right) PGI tried it before a long time ago (steady decrease in damage the closer a target got under 90m), but changed it back to what we have now. I'm not sure why the change didn't stick (or if I'm remembering it right), but if I am remembering it right, wonder why it was changed.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 01 June 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

PholkLorr, on 01 June 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Clan ERPPC. 3rd worst weapon in the game because at least you do 15 dmg, albeit 2.5 spread to each torso, which to me isn't even a nerf at all because most mechs are damaged all over the place anyway, and people are going to hit the part they want between 20 to 70% of the time anyway. Stop pretending you're some computerlike aimbot player who can consistently put your PPFLD on the part you want. Pretty sure 90% of the forum posters here can't. But the way you see ppl on here talk about how spread is bad, it's as if 90% of them are computers.

The most logical rationale for why they talk as if they have 90% hit rate on the part they want is because their brain only remembers the good stuff. Cored Robot! Alpha strike him with my PPC, BAM! He dies and i feel the rush of endorphins. Boy am i such a hot shot. Next 4 instances where you see a cored robot and you alpha him with your PPCs/AC20/gauss and didn't hit the cored part. Meh, chuck it off into the bin of forgotten memories. On the 6th instance, you alpha and the target dies. WOAH IM A HOT SHOT, i have 90% hits on the specific component i want! When in reality, you only hit 20% of your shots.

My PPC hit rate has gone up 2% in the last 10 or so games ive played. Now that I can actually aim and hit properly, my hit rate is up to 58% from the like 56 it was.

I personally would rather have 15 PPFLD over 10 2.5/2.5. I mean, I guess the 2.5 splash is nice to hit spots I miss, but 15 to one spot, then spreading damage to other damaged spots is basically the same thing. You hit a destroyed section on a mech with a 10 point LL, doesnt it spread 50% to the next "living" section anyway? So, the CERPPC isnt actually doing anything that other guns dont do. If the CERPPC was a 15PPFLD, it would spread more damage to other broken sections then it does now....so, really the spread is redundant and just kinda makes the CERPPC worse then it should be.

[wanderer]

LordKnightFandragon, on 01 June 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

I personally would rather have 15 PPFLD over 10 2.5/2.5. I mean, I guess the 2.5 splash is nice to hit spots I miss, but 15 to one spot, then spreading damage to other damaged spots is basically the same thing. You hit a destroyed section on a mech with a 10 point LL, doesnt it spread 50% to the next "living" section anyway? So, the CERPPC isnt actually doing anything that other guns dont do. If the CERPPC was a 15PPFLD, it would spread more damage to other broken sections then it does now....so, really the spread is redundant and just kinda makes the CERPPC worse then it should be.

CERPPCs getting a full 15 damage to one location, you say? You poor fool.

The classic kamikaze Direstar build fires nine CERPPCs (or even ten) for it's instakill power.

That's 90 damage to one location with nine guns. Without damage spread, that'd be six.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0216046ace3c22

I'll take a heavily armored Direstar that actually won't melt to scrap after two shots that's stuffed with heat sinks, it's no longer a comedy build thanks to your fix.. Thanks. It'll work on a KDK-1, too.

[Baba Yogi]

I think ppcs are fine if the chassis has 40%+ velocity. I'm regularly taking out a quad ppc marauder with xl360+16dhs and its becoming one of my favorite builds, even regularly pulling off 500dmg on matches where my team gets crushed. Only bad thing about it is that damnable minimum range. And if PGI wants ERPPC to be viable compared to regular ones they should increase the base veloctiy by 50% compared to regular ppc so it'll be truly a sniper weapon. At least that way it'll have something to justify that horrendeus heat generation.

[LordKnightFandragon]

wanderer, on 01 June 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

CERPPCs getting a full 15 damage to one location, you say? You poor fool.

The classic kamikaze Direstar build fires nine CERPPCs (or even ten) for it's instakill power.

That's 90 damage to one location with nine guns. Without damage spread, that'd be six.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0216046ace3c22

I'll take a heavily armored Direstar that actually won't melt to scrap after two shots that's stuffed with heat sinks, it's no longer a comedy build thanks to your fix.. Thanks. It'll work on a KDK-1, too.

Take my fix of 40 max heat scale and a "You explode from over heat of 50 heat". Now fire those 6 CERPPC....

[PholkLorr]

AztecD, on 01 June 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Awesome 8Q


PPC's are fine if you know what you are doing, its not an easy weapon, but yea

You mean PPCs are fine when they have 25% heat discount and 50% velocity buff.

Don't kid yourself. They're JUNK unless super quirked.

[wanderer]

LordKnightFandragon, on 01 June 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

Take my fix of 40 max heat scale and a "You explode from over heat of 50 heat". Now fire those 6 CERPPC....

So in other words, rebuild the entire system to fit your narrative. If we had an actual heatscale, no mega-energy layout like that would be done other than as a novelty build. Which I wouldn't mind, but call me oldfashioned.

You've still given people a 33% discount in tonnage and heat to get the current results with PPCs that already weigh in at less than IS 10-point ERPPCs.

PholkLorr, on 01 June 2016 - 08:48 PM, said:

You mean PPCs are fine when they have 25% heat discount and 50% velocity buff.

Don't kid yourself. They're JUNK unless super quirked.

See the rise and fall of the Thunderbolt-9S for that. You'd think it'd make it abundantly clear that the -base- weapon needed stat adjustment, not just quirking random robots into PPCdom.

[Dahrsis]

EvilCow, on 01 June 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Almost useful. I recommend:

- Increase velocity by 20% across the board.
- Reduce velocity quirks by 20% across the board.
- Normal PPC should return to linear damage drop we had in the past.
- Another -0.5 heat.

The rationale is:
- Reduce gap between quirked and non quirked mechs, right now it is only almost decent with heavy quirks..
- Better position PPC as an alternative to LPLs. The range limit is killing it in the role.

This is quite close to what i would like to see to bring IS PPCs into line.

I would go for a 30% velocity increase (with the same decrease in quirks) and a fixed damage of 5 under 90m.

Reasoning for the velocity increase is the same as EvilCow said. To make the weapon useful for more than a handful
of overquirked Mechs. The 5 damage at under 90m makes it competitve with the LPL overall, as most people just recoil
back at the idea to forfeit their main weapon once a certain range is reached. I opt for the fixed value so it is still a deterrent for ligths, but not the near full brunt at 80m.

The pinpoint damage is paid for in heat and the low GH threshhold.

I specified the IS PPC because it is the base for the other 2 versions. And to be honest, i am at a loss what to do with them except for the obvious increase in velocity.

[DerMaulwurf]

AztecD, on 01 June 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Awesome 8Q

Spoiler

PPC's are fine if you know what you are doing, its not an easy weapon, but yea have 25% heat and 50% speed quirks

Fixed that for you.

Besides that, everything works in the solo queue. Even lurms.

[DarthHias]

wanderer, on 01 June 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

CERPPCs getting a full 15 damage to one location, you say? You poor fool.

The classic kamikaze Direstar build fires nine CERPPCs (or even ten) for it's instakill power.

That's 90 damage to one location with nine guns. Without damage spread, that'd be six.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0216046ace3c22

I'll take a heavily armored Direstar that actually won't melt to scrap after two shots that's stuffed with heat sinks, it's no longer a comedy build thanks to your fix.. Thanks. It'll work on a KDK-1, too.

So? Cap at two at a time like goose waffels. Problem solved, Adder is king of the Clan lights

[Barantor]

wanderer, on 01 June 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

See the rise and fall of the Thunderbolt-9S for that. You'd think it'd make it abundantly clear that the -base- weapon needed stat adjustment, not just quirking random robots into PPCdom.

I blame the mechlab for that and our ability to completely break this game through it because of it's open customization.

Most of the balance problems don't come back to weapons being unbalanced as much as our ability to put them in places or in amounts that were unintended.

[MeiSooHaityu]

PPCs are victim to the number one balance issue in MWO. How do you make a weapon seem effective by itself, but not too overpowering if boated?

Quirks go a long way towards that, but only on select mechs. It eliminates the weapon from use all together on other mechs.

Things like making the PPC projectiles AND making them cooler will pretty much help boost boating. On the flip side, should it see a more ghost heat applied to counter act the buffs?

It's all a mess to event think about sometimes.

[Sorbic]

It depends. Certain times of the day the HR works about as well as can be expected and other times it's just crap.

Edit: I am playing on a potato so I'm not sure how much of the issue is with my PC/network. Sometimes I have to go through and close programs/browser tabs to make the game playable again.

Edited by Sorbic, 02 June 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Lightfoot]

HR is better, but I am still seeing phantom hits where the PPCs hit, and I have the damage graph up for a long time, but nothing registers. It is better though

[Quicksilver Aberration]

A lot of the PPFLD weapons should really have their ghost heat adjusted, PPCs included.
Either shift it to allow 3 fired at once, or reduce the penalty.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 June 2016 - 08:44 AM.