79 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

dario03, on 02 June 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

If it happens multiple times sure but this was about who is at fault. In the example I gave it is on the the guy who took the damage. Since he shouldn't have made that move, the smoke was well in his sight, and actually iirc I did actually say look out for the arty.

Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't. Maybe you should have used a strike, maybe you shouldn't have. It is debatable. What isn't open for debate tho is that you killed your teammate and thus suffered a penalty. I doubt in RL anyone would have used artillery pieces with friendly units anywhere near the strike zone unless they were 1000% sure it was safe. But in this game we frankly don't care, thus things like this happen.

[dario03]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 June 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't. Maybe you should have used a strike, maybe you shouldn't have. It is debatable. What isn't open for debate tho is that you killed your teammate and thus suffered a penalty. I doubt in RL anyone would have used artillery pieces with friendly units anywhere near the strike zone unless they were 1000% sure it was safe. But in this game we frankly don't care, thus things like this happen.

I would say it is open to debate. He killed himself running into the smoke (though he didn't actually die). If you have lights on your team should you only use arty if they are over 425m away from it? Because the fastest lights can cover about that much distance in the amount of time it takes a strike to finish after activated. If you throw a arty on a enemy with a friendly light right next to him then your bad, if you throw a arty on a enemy and a friendly runs 300m straight into it then his bad.

And in RL artillery does get used close to friendlies fairly often and it doesn't always work out to good. And again who is at fault depends on the situation and RL is a lot more complicated than this game.

[Darian DelFord]

Interesting thing is, I get Accidental friendly fire all the time. Usually less than 20 points and usually because they walk in front of my Jenner. While I take the C-bill Hit I have NEVER incurred a wait for it.

My guess is the OP had somehting happen BEFORE this match and got dinged AGAIN on the 2nd match and he is just not saying.

[dario03]

Darian DelFord, on 02 June 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Interesting thing is, I get Accidental friendly fire all the time. Usually less than 20 points and usually because they walk in front of my Jenner. While I take the C-bill Hit I have NEVER incurred a wait for it.

My guess is the OP had somehting happen BEFORE this match and got dinged AGAIN on the 2nd match and he is just not saying.

He said 2 in a row, which I'm guessing is why he had to wait that long. I don't know exactly how the system works but I think it is a certain amount of damage per match gets you a penalty and a tk gets you penalty. If you just do a little bit of ff every match you are fine, but if you do something like 50+ 3 times in a hour you will get a big penalty. Not sure if going crazy and doing 500 team damage and multiple TKs in one match gives a bigger penalty.

[jjm1]

So even this post gets the usual suspects leaping into defence and the elitists compelled to post their get better comment. I'm not upset by this, if that wasn't obvious enough.

Besides that, its a trivial programming change to have the team damage acknowledged in the current system.

Also, these 2 minute penalties are not that uncommon in group drops with all the disconnects and friday night drinking going on. It shouldn't apply to inter-group TK events at all.

[Darian DelFord]

jjm1, on 02 June 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

So even this post gets the usual suspects leaping into defence and the elitists compelled to post their get better comment. I'm not upset by this, if that wasn't obvious enough.

Besides that, its a trivial programming change to have the team damage acknowledged in the current system.

Also, these 2 minute penalties are not that uncommon in group drops with all the disconnects and friday night drinking going on. It shouldn't apply to inter-group TK events at all.

I will not argue the D/C thing. This client is so unstable its not even funny. I have never D/C'ed as much in any other game as I do in this one. Almost 3 to 4 a night.

[Jables McBarty]

jjm1, on 02 June 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

...ummmm, yeahhh, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that, um, you've used this image incorrectly. Yeah.

[WarHippy]

There really needs to be a threshold before any penalty kicks in. It doesn't need to be high(15-20 damage), but we do need it in my opinion. There are too many random chance factors that play into situations that are simply out of your control, and anyone trying to dumb it down into "learn2aim" is being deliberately ignorant. At the very least the system needs to be looked at because I have been noticing over the last day or two receiving a c-bill penalty(granted an insignificant amount) for team damage yet I have no team damage even listed on the final screen.

Edited by WarHippy, 02 June 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

WarHippy, on 02 June 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

There really needs to be a threshold before any penalty kicks in. It doesn't need to be high(15-20 damage), but we do need it in my opinion. There are too many random chance factors that play into situations that are simply out of your control, and anyone trying to dumb it down into "learn2aim" is being deliberately ignorant. At the very least the system needs to be looked at because I have been noticing over the last day or two receiving a c-bill penalty(granted an insignificant amount) for team damage yet I have no team damage even listed on the final screen.

I get that too, but it's always like 7 Cbills, so my assumption is that it's for damage that didn't add up to 1. So bumping legs, scratching with a SL near max range, etc.

[Revis Volek]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Accidents happen. Two in a row isn't an accident.

Precisely, if you did it once well accidents happen. For you to have it happen twice in one session says more about you needing to have more fire discipline then the Penalty system needing a change.

Darian DelFord, on 02 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I will not argue the D/C thing. This client is so unstable its not even funny. I have never D/C'ed as much in any other game as I do in this one. Almost 3 to 4 a night.

A NIGHT!?!?


Sounds more like an issue on your end like your ISP or even a data center somewhere in between you and PGI that is just crap...

I might Disco 3-4 times a month, maybe. I agree this game has more of it then others but that is really excessive IMO. Granted I dont put anything past PGI and there issues. Hopefully that gets addressed one day...

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 June 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[Escef]

It's 2 minutes, suck it up, buttercup. In the meantime, reflect on how to lift fire.

[Troutmonkey]

Escef, on 02 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

It's 2 minutes, suck it up, buttercup. In the meantime, reflect on how to lift fire.

Step 1. Look at the screen cap
Step 2. Notice the second game only had 1. ONE team damage
Step 3. Reflect

[Escef]

Troutmonkey, on 02 June 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Step 1. Look at the screen cap
Step 2. Notice the second game only had 1. ONE team damage
Step 3. Reflect

You don't get a 2 minute penalty for your first kill. I don't trust people that whine about penalties and present partial evidence.

Reflect on that.

[Troutmonkey]

Escef, on 02 June 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

You don't get a 2 minute penalty for your first kill. I don't trust people that whine about penalties and present partial evidence.

Reflect on that.

I know that it would have needed 2 TK's to trigger 2 minutes, but 1 dmg would be impossible to avoid with your suggestion of "lift fire".

I would love if this game had a "Punish / Forgive" prompt for accidental / inter-unit fire

[jjm1]

Escef, on 02 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

It's 2 minutes, suck it up, buttercup. In the meantime, reflect on how to lift fire.

You never ever do team damage? I've heard some skill inflating porkies before, but that ones quite a statement to make.

[Sorbic]

Darian DelFord, on 02 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I will not argue the D/C thing. This client is so unstable its not even funny. I have never D/C'ed as much in any other game as I do in this one. Almost 3 to 4 a night.

Sounds like part of it might be on your end. Even on my potato I rarely have issues. What occasionally happens to me is window's won't refocus (I'm always alt tabbed) on the game visually although I can hear it. So I task manage the game and relaunch it. I have experimented with just waiting but it can sometimes take forever and restarting is more reliably faster.

Never had the issue with my last mobo/cpu.

[oldradagast]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

TK is a TK. You ruined someones match just because you took the risk of firing when a friendly was on the line of fire. Be it 1 damage or 101 damage it is your fault.

Penalty system should be even harsher. Like a 5000 c-bills per point of team damage instead of stupid 21 c-bills.

Accidents happen. Two in a row isn't an accident.

Wrong on two counts:

- Barring intentional team kills, the blame generally lies on some mix of the person pulling the trigger and the person who gets hit. I've seen far too many cases of idiot team-mates happily walking in front of the guns of an assault mech that's blazing away and then seeming surprised when - duh! - bullets hurt.
- If you raise the team damage penalties through the roof as you're proposing, trolls will simply switch from trying to kill team members to trying to get killed BY team members so that the killer gets blasted by the stupid automatic system. Stepping in front of mechs firing, running mechs without any armor - you'll see all of that.

I have no problem with automatic penalties and the system should punish team killers, but it's stupid that you can be handed a team kill penalty for 1 damage. As others have said, the damage threshold should be about 20 or so for it to count the kill against you.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 June 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[oldradagast]

jjm1, on 02 June 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

You never ever do team damage? I've heard some skill inflating porkies before, but that ones quite a statement to make.

Not only do such people never do team damage, we're also to believe that their team mates also never step in front of an allied mech while firing, never get hit by friendly fire while brawling at point blank range, and never even get hit by scattering missiles or anything else. It must be nice to play in Tier 0 where all of this supposedly happens.

[Mystere]

McValium, on 02 June 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

So instead of the mild inconvenience of 10seconds/2minutes wait you would prefer the return of Teamkilling abusers that do it for a whole evening, or the return of player dropping out of maps they dont like/parts of challenges they dont need anymore?. Sorry the system has improved the Statusquo.

I disagree. It's like a nuke, killing the guilty and innocent alike.

Voq, on 02 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

I get the people who think it's not a big deal because it can be rare if it's just coincidence. And I agree that it needs to stay in place to stop griefers.

But, the point OP is making is it triggered as a TK at ONE dmg. I think it would be an easy fix to make it a 5-10 dmg threshold. Because any intentional TKers would be hard-pressed to pull that off that precisely.
But how often do any of us actually get those TK's with more than a few points?

Also do not exclude instances where idiots get into your line of fire after you've already pulled the trigger. I don't know about others, but I see this happening a lot during events.

PhoenixFire55, on 02 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Accidents happen. Two in a row isn't an accident.

Precisely. So stop getting into my line of fire while acting like a hyena hungry for a kill.

Edited by Mystere, 02 June 2016 - 07:08 PM.

[Green Mamba]

Usually when i drop a Strike and a friendly runs into it usually does it for me...I do think it is a little too severe though