79 replies to this topic

[DarthHias]

Let´s be honest, the case of a player being ONE damage point from death is already rare as it can get. Especially with the alphas flying around. That he THEN gets hit by a teammate can happen and is unfortunate. The propability for those two events to happen at the same time is very very low.
When such a rare occurence happens, well just enjoy the penalty. Nothing warrants any change here because its just so unprobable to happen again.

[oldradagast]

DarthHias, on 03 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

Let´s be honest, the case of a player being ONE damage point from death is already rare as it can get. Especially with the alphas flying around. That he THEN gets hit by a teammate can happen and is unfortunate. The propability for those two events to happen at the same time is very very low.
When such a rare occurence happens, well just enjoy the penalty. Nothing warrants any change here because its just so unprobable to happen again.

I would agree with you if the fix was difficult to code, but it's not. Punish every point of team damage, but don't punish the player with a team-kill unless he did 20 or more points of damage to the victim. That puts the penalty out of range of a leg-bump or a scrap with a laser and should be an easy enough change to make that it could be done in one afternoon.

Unfortunately, we have PGI, so they probably don't understand the code enough to fix it, and too many salty players who think the game needs brutal punishments for every point of damage dealt because they think that players shoot drunk but are positioning geniuses - and that doesn't even count the repeatedly explained trolling that would be created by brutally punishing team damage.

[oldradagast]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 June 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Apparently you've never driven a mech with SRMs. At least never driven a mech with SRMs outside of your underhive.

Enjoy your TKs then. Also enjoy all the likes of yourself shooting your rear.

So, your SRM's only work when you're at nearly 0 range and standing between your allies and the enemy? You must be playing a totally different version of MWO than everyone else, troll. Talk about a prime example as to how the Tier system means nothing, lol.

As for the rest of your sad little attempts to pick a fight beyond your understanding, as I already made clear, I stop shooting the moment an ally steps into my fire, but claiming that I need to be "brutally punished" because some moron takes the initial damage from actively deciding to walk into my pretty laser beams or auto-cannon rounds is idiotic and laughable. Grow up.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 June 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

bla bla bla ...

All I'm gonna say to you mr-I've-no-balls-to-show-my-tier-forumwarrior is ...

Whatever.

[oldradagast]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 June 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

All I'm gonna say to you mr-I've-no-balls-to-show-my-tier-forumwarrior is ...

Whatever.

If you're going to pull the tier card, you've got no ground to stand on since that means you've resorted to attacking the person and have proven that you can't defend your laughable argument that "all friendly fire is careless and malicious while allies never make positioning errors that result in them getting shot."

You've already tried to argue that SRM's only work within a few meters of the enemy - and apparently only when standing between the enemy and your allies - and that humping an enemy is a good course of action while it should be obvious that planting yourself next to the target is EXACTLY how people get hit by friendly fire.

You've got nothing, so enjoy being killed by allies every time you decided to walk into the pretty laser beams. Tier 1... pffft...

Edited by oldradagast, 03 June 2016 - 07:22 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

If you're going to pull the tier card, you've got no ground to stand on since that means you've resorted to attacking the person and have proven that you can't defend your laughable argument that "all friendly fire is careless and malicious while allies never make positioning errors that result in them getting shot."

I'll disappoint you even further because ...

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

You must be playing a totally different version of MWO than everyone else, troll. Talk about a prime example as to how the Tier system means nothing, lol.

and

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

As for the rest of your sad little attempts to pick a fight beyond your understanding

... clearly proves that you've started both personal attacks and tier measurements.

ggclose

[oldradagast]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 June 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I'll disappoint you even further ...

Yep, you did. You picked a fight with me instead of discussing the issue, are supporting some invalid arguments to blame everything on the guy pulling the trigger, tried to use tier to "prove" your case (and failed), and now are trying to prove that it's somehow "my fault" when I don't take kindly to your childish personal attacks. You have no support for your argument that blames everything on the guy pulling the trigger, and certainly no grounds for the fight you started here. I'll simply be blocking you from now on since you have nothing useful to contribute and are clearly more interested in picking fights than discussing issues maturely. Have a nice day!

Edited by oldradagast, 03 June 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[DarthHias]

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

I would agree with you if the fix was difficult to code, but it's not. Punish every point of team damage, but don't punish the player with a team-kill unless he did 20 or more points of damage to the victim. That puts the penalty out of range of a leg-bump or a scrap with a laser and should be an easy enough change to make that it could be done in one afternoon.

Unfortunately, we have PGI, so they probably don't understand the code enough to fix it, and too many salty players who think the game needs brutal punishments for every point of damage dealt because they think that players shoot drunk but are positioning geniuses - and that doesn't even count the repeatedly explained trolling that would be created by brutally punishing team damage.

Ya right, something like that would also work, though it will always stay an arbitrary number. So if it´s easy to do, well I´m not against it. But the problem is that it could break some other code and I´m not sure it is big enough a problem to warrant putting manpower into changing it. If its possible with little effort and risk sure we can have it.
As i said, a TK with just 1 point of dmg is a rare thing to happen.

[Shoot someone else]

I think the penalty is fine. I've seen it once. Wasn't my fault but I just took a break and came back ina few to play again.

Now, a comment for all the people telling others to 'aim better' and such. Sometimes crap happens. Here's my example:

Trying out the Kodiak. Second game in it. I believe it's the 3 with dial LB20's standard. Hadn't made any changes. We were doing well overall. An enemy Warhammer was trapped trying to run away through a narrow corridor between two buildings. I was blasting away confident he would go down quickly. I had a clear field of fire. I had been shooting for several seconds. No friendlies in the way.
That changed quickly. Two light mechs, seeing an easy kill got in the way. One just stepped right in front of me and took an AC 20 to the back. The other jumped over me and landed right in front of me to receive the other AC20 to the back.
No better aiming or trigger control is going to prevent a TK when team mates just step in front of heavy weapons firing. So yeah, it happens.

[oldradagast]

DarthHias, on 03 June 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

Ya right, something like that would also work, though it will always stay an arbitrary number. So if it´s easy to do, well I´m not against it. But the problem is that it could break some other code and I´m not sure it is big enough a problem to warrant putting manpower into changing it. If its possible with little effort and risk sure we can have it.
As i said, a TK with just 1 point of dmg is a rare thing to happen.

It is rare, but things like this - at least for me - fall into that nagging category of "it's so easy to fix, why not just do it?" MWO is a decent enough game, but it has suffered from this problem since the beginning. Remember all the text issues in game, or how long it took to color code the players so when "flyingbeercan kills joeblow" you know at a glance if that was good or bad? Or now long it took to give any indication to a pilot that he's been NARC'd other than "gee, I seem to be dying to missiles - maybe something went wrong?"

I get what you're saying - it happens rarely enough that making a big coding project out of it would be silly - but it bugs me that so many little things somehow turn into big coding projects in this game, or are at least passed off that way. I work in engineering systems and software testing and support, so I know a respectable amount software testing, code, and so forth, so I just don't buy the excuses we've seen to delay (or never implement) simple fixes unless the situation at PGI is much worse tech-wise than we'd expect.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight with you or anything. I've just been lately mulling over how much better this game could be if so many simple things were fixed or improved... Pinpoint skill, anyone? Ugh! I just want this game to be more than it is, and I honestly think it could go much further with relatively little effort; this falls into that category, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 June 2016 - 08:22 AM.

[FuDawg]

jjm1, on 02 June 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Two in a row. I'm afraid to play another match.

I just got me a chubby!

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 June 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Apparently you've never driven a mech with SRMs. At least never driven a mech with SRMs outside of your underhive.

Ah! This T1 speaks with absolute condescension -- Ahem! I meant -- authority.

PhoenixFire55, on 03 June 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Want to shoot a baddie then go and tank him point blank. If you don't want to tank then shut it and watch where you are firing at.

Ah! I completely forgot that IS PPCs work at point-blank range. And apparently he's never had a light -- or any ally for that matter -- jump into his fire.

And T1s apparently tank at point blank range.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 03 June 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Ah! This T1 speaks with absolute condescension -- Ahem! I meant -- authority.




Ah! I completely forgot that IS PPCs work at point-blank range. And apparently he's never had a light -- or any ally for that matter -- jump into his fire.

And T1s apparently tank at point blank range.

This thread....i love this thread.


So in order to make it to T1 i have to face tank lots of mechs bigger then me, use SRMS at 0 meters while using a friendly fatty as my sheild and shoot PPC at that range as well.


Thanks for the help!

[Peter2k]

In before K-town :-)


ahh
2 minutes of waiting, because of bad luck
sigh
People act like someone took away a whole mech or something
Man that's a toilet brake, making a coffee
Or if you're having a load of mechs, waiting for the mech lab to save the load out ;-)

It's really not a big deal
How high is the chance of TK'ing 3 times in a row or even more by accident

Yes people run in front of you, it's often enough that you can count on it and maybe not kill someone in the back because it's his fault for getting in the way
Like I don't get angry if some squirrel gets in my line of fire piloting an assault


Still happened to all of us
Bad luck, chill out, smoke one or something and drop again


And while I enjoy seeing poop been thrown around like the next guy about tiers n get good
Also this

mailin, on 02 June 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

There is a penalty threshold. A certain number of team damage(50+ I think), or one team kill

It's not like I actually have tested it out

Any confirmation on this?

[Escef]

jjm1, on 02 June 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

You never ever do team damage? I've heard some skill inflating porkies before, but that ones quite a statement to make.

Since the system was put in place I have not done enough team damage to take a match finding time penalty. If you don't believe me, go checking through my livestream history.

[Escef]

Karl Streiger, on 03 June 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Wait one,

You people that say: "learn to aim" are you serious? 1 freaking damage - the other guy might just run into the OP and died.
Things happen. It is not very hard to have some logic woven into the condition. (maximum potential charge damage).

Firstly, you don't get a 2 minute penalty for a first offense. He deliberately left out information about what previous offense he did to warrant being put up to second tier penalty. That raises suspicion.

Secondly, it's a 2 minute penalty. Check your email. Check twitter. Grab a drink. Make a hotpocket. Who cares? It's 2 flippin' minutes.

And finally, yes, we are serious. Yes, accidents happen. Just yesterday I accidentally took the arm off of a friendly Cheetah with quad LB10X. I knew it was a risky shot, but I though I had it, and I was wrong. I apologized to the dude, and he was pretty cool about it. It not being a TK and my total team damage during the match only being 43, I took no penalty... If I take no penalties for that, and the OP is already sucking a second tier penalty, he's screwing up consistently. Consistent. Screw ups.

[illudium Q 36]

The ME109 was the Luftwaffe's main fighter during WWII because the German's couldn't afford to interrupt production.

There are a handful still flying to this day. I spoke to an American who had several hundred hours of flying time in a restored ME109.

His first words about the matter of flying one of these aircraft was a simple statement.

"There are two types of pilots who have flown the ME109. Those that have ground looped during takeoff and those that will ground loop during take off".

Sort of reminds me of some of the posts in this thread. To those of you who haven't gotten a TK for a few points of damage ....

"There are two types of Mech Warrior Online players. Those of you that have team killed on ten points or less damage and those who will team kill on ten points or less of damage ......"

Happened to me while shooting at a Locust doing a Daffy Duck runabout through a half dozen of us while we were bunched together. A five point glancing hit led to a TK on my part.

[Volthorne]

Escef, on 03 June 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Firstly, you don't get a 2 minute penalty for a first offense. He deliberately left out information about what previous offense he did to warrant being put up to second tier penalty. That raises suspicion.

OP used the phrase

Quote

Two in a row.

which implies that he had two matches back-to-back where he ended up doing ~1 point of damage to friendly and still managed to pick up a TK penalty (if you'll notice his scoreboard screenshot he didn't even get dinged for the full 21 Cbills per 1 point of damage). The first time he obviously would have just written it off as a fluke, or maybe was away from his desk/tabbed out and missed seeing the penalty altogether.

Quote

Secondly, it's a 2 minute penalty. Check your email. Check twitter. Grab a drink. Make a hotpocket. Who cares? It's 2 flippin' minutes.

This is true. Burning two minutes is very easy, though the circumstances would be rather frustrating.

Quote

And finally, yes, we are serious. Yes, accidents happen. Just yesterday I accidentally took the arm off of a friendly Cheetah with quad LB10X. I knew it was a risky shot, but I though I had it, and I was wrong. I apologized to the dude, and he was pretty cool about it. It not being a TK and my total team damage during the match only being 43, I took no penalty... If I take no penalties for that, and the OP is already sucking a second tier penalty, he's screwing up consistently. Consistent. Screw ups.

Gonna call bullsh*t on this. 50 damage is the penalty trigger point. In my opinion it should be 30, because if you're dishing out even that much team damage per match, you're severely depleting - if not out right critically damaging - an equivalent amount of armor to what a 60-65 tonne Heavy carries on the front of a side torso. That should be your benchmark for "I dun goofed and it's my fault". But to be slapped with a TK penalty for under 1 team damage? You can't avoid that kind of nonsense, that's some straight-up deus ex machina sh*t. I would go so far as to say the OP probably has better overall gunnery than you, based on what you just posted. You mentioned something about "consistent screw ups"? Look in the mirror.

Edited by Volthorne, 03 June 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[Escef]

Volthorne, on 03 June 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

I would go so far as to say the OP probably has better overall gunnery than you, based on what you just posted. You mentioned something about "consistent screw ups"? Look in the mirror.

Based on what I just posted? 43 points of team damage in a 4xLB10X Kodiak is a minor collision and 1 bad alpha. Believe what you like, I guess.

[DarthHias]

oldradagast, on 03 June 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

It is rare, but things like this - at least for me - fall into that nagging category of "it's so easy to fix, why not just do it?" MWO is a decent enough game, but it has suffered from this problem since the beginning. Remember all the text issues in game, or how long it took to color code the players so when "flyingbeercan kills joeblow" you know at a glance if that was good or bad? Or now long it took to give any indication to a pilot that he's been NARC'd other than "gee, I seem to be dying to missiles - maybe something went wrong?"

I get what you're saying - it happens rarely enough that making a big coding project out of it would be silly - but it bugs me that so many little things somehow turn into big coding projects in this game, or are at least passed off that way. I work in engineering systems and software testing and support, so I know a respectable amount software testing, code, and so forth, so I just don't buy the excuses we've seen to delay (or never implement) simple fixes unless the situation at PGI is much worse tech-wise than we'd expect.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight with you or anything. I've just been lately mulling over how much better this game could be if so many simple things were fixed or improved... Pinpoint skill, anyone? Ugh! I just want this game to be more than it is, and I honestly think it could go much further with relatively little effort; this falls into that category, IMHO.

Yeah, not trying to fight either. I think we can agree that they could and should fix it if it´s relatively easy to do ok? I have no idea how coding works, so I can´t say how difficult it would be. And you are spot on with your latest paragraph. Lots of small things that could each enhance the game experience a bit. I mean I was glad they did something with the cockpit monitors, but I thought we would by now have a bit more and a bit of customization.