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Clan Mechs Are A Joke


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#181 Spider00x

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:23 PM

View PostSsamout, on 23 September 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

LOL, Who are you?? LOL. <3 <3 <3

Yeah I know that this is oftopic and for that I apologize.

I just pointed out that your matches were against randoms in FP, not comp matches. If that goes so badly under your skin I'm sorry. It's good to have a competitive spirit in this game, helps to win matches.
I watched some of your videos and from them I gathered that you like good quality matches against organized opposition. So in that sense your unit should really check out some comp leagues, as the FP seems to still be in decline and you dont enjoy QP. Some really good nail biter matches to be had in there, no circle jerking unless u wanna, and it really doesnt take more time commitments than FP.

As to the topic, that clan mechs are a joke. That is a joke in itself.


IF faction warfare indeed HAD some kind of league play I would be ALL OVER IT I was pissed that the world tourny didnt envolve FP. As I said again we do not like quickplay or the restrictions around it. If Faction play had something like that sign me the **** up.

#182 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:45 PM

The topic of balance (currently favoring clans) stays alive these past months because while Jade was dominating their attack lane in June, that is still just as true today and recently more clans are showing dominance in their lanes.

Wolf is making a good deal of gains now (having added some talented teams lately), the CGB was gobbling up FRR & Kurita worlds at a rapid pace (until losing some teams to Wolf slowed them down). Even CSJ made a few small gains of late

Things are not so rosy in the IS right now. Weekends seem to be the only time The FRR can really mount a serious attack. unless MS or a couple of other quality Merc units are FRR that week. The guys on the FRR hub group up and do attack, but without sufficient manpower (even if we win our matches) any gains on a planet are so often ghost dropped away by Clanners who have already gotten their attack planets to 100% (with 2 hours to go in the attack phase) and have no other place to drop.... As so few other attacks on clan world's are happening they have little else to do. They just want the chance at a game, but the FRR generally has too few teams to match the demand when the clan attack world's are at 100%.

When it comes to thinking about balance it comes down to looking at the reality of map and trying to figure out why it is this way. Is it tech (or new mechs like the Kodiak 3)?....is it skill imbalance (more talented players/ organized teams playing clans)? ... Or some combination of factors. The reasons are all open for debate. Just pretending there is no such thing as imbalance in the game (favoring clans) at the moment is a denial of map-based reality. Imbalance might be fun for a while. Winning is fun, but it's not good for the future of the game as when one side dominates too much, as people quit in frustration or switch sides (joining the winners).. This creates even a greater imbalance


#183 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:45 PM

View Postarivio, on 23 September 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:


i nerver called that random crap comp.

u never ever can call FP comp :D


Different challenges. A pro MMA match is comp. The same pro MMA fighter getting jumped in an alley by some guy who brawls all day every day is still a "competitive" fight. There was no weigh in and ref and the rules a bit more fuzzy but it would be disingenuous to say that if it's not a title fight it's not competitive.

It's just more tactics, less strategy and no matchmaker/divisions to ensure a challenge for your time. Challenges can come up though. Or used to when more people played.

#184 SmokeGuar

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 04:19 PM

Part of IS loyalist have jumped ship. Mercs prefer to attack. Clan Invasion season. Mercs dominate activity on FW.
None of these have anything to do with IS / Clan balance.

#185 justcallme A S H

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 07:45 PM

View PostSsamout, on 23 September 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:


Ah you seem to love nitpicking, I'll leave you to it then. Have fun in your 'comp' matches.


Bowing out because you know you can't give an answer, cool with me.

End of the day the word comp/competitive was used and you don't like that as you do not agree. That is fine, but does the word/meaning does not apply? Of course not.

If either side is playing and trying their best, playing to win, then it is indeed being - competitive. Just because you are not playing;

- In a seeded league
- A ladder that has monetary/rewards at the end of it
- Deemed professional etc etc

Does not mean something is not, competitive. Going into a match of any kind, you will never know what the other teams tactic/plan is to win, you anticipate and go from there. So there is a huge element of unknown that you will not know, until the time falls. You adjust at that point(s) and either win or lose.

The definition of a "competitive" match has little to do with anticipating (keyword there, because you do not "know") what the opponent is bringing to the table/will potentially do.


View PostHusker Dude, on 23 September 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

Not to blow up our spot, but we've definitely scouted other units' videos in MRBC/MWOWC to find out what they bring and what they do.


As always, 100% agree with you. We've been doing the same for our matches also - everyone is, I mean, why wouldn't you if you can?

That said there is still quite an element of unknown as many teams have changed things up and not always stuck to the same plan (as with anyone playing any game/sport or otherwise). It's not always going to be what you expect and because you "expect" something, doesn't magically make it more of a "comp/competitive" match than another.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 September 2016 - 07:55 PM.


#186 GetinmyBellah

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 09:07 PM

Well, the OP troll poured gasoline on this subject and the majority charged in with lighters engaged it would seem, le sigh.

Anyhow, for me it's all about enjoying whatever game I am playing. Sure, I try my best to help my team, but most QP teams won't listen to the most basic and, or sound tactics. Everyone has a, "don't tell me how to play" mentality even when I start out with please, or request what they think. For instance: okay bravo and charlie let's do what he suggests and take Theta while alpha caps to start, then we'll branch out after killing everything at theta. I'm left alone at theta because everyone decided that because they saw 2-3 mechs pushing theta is no longer viable, or they stop short and hide by which time I'm toast because I've lead the charge. Never do that anymore, lol... I'm always down for listening to someone who has a plan and following through as such. Yeah, that's PUG life for ya' though.

I had so much more fun with my small, close knit band of merry warriors during the earlier phases of closed beta back in '12 or therein... then open beta came about and most stopped playing altogether. While other's dished out $240 for the full on Clan Pack and I rarely see them online. Anyhow, a rambling I will go ~

Happy gaming folks <S> in whatever mechs you have the most FUN playing.

#187 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 09:35 AM

View PostSmokeGuar, on 23 September 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Part of IS loyalist have jumped ship. Mercs prefer to attack. Clan Invasion season. Mercs dominate activity on FW.
None of these have anything to do with IS / Clan balance.


Maybe I was a bit confusing in what I was saying. The map doesn't show any semblance of balance in the game. Therefore, folks are going to look for reasons why the clans are dominating play (at the current moment). Possible reasons I submitted for this are clan tech or mechs (which you deny as a current imbalance... Fair enough) and/or a talent imbalance in teams/players....just that the clans might currently have more of the active MWO talent pool (good units) playing on their side currently (this seem to agree with in your above post). Could be some other reason as well.

Side note: if merc activity is the factor, it would have to be in conjunction with something else (like clans having more active loyalists) as many switch sides so often (many units switch back and forth between clans and IS weekly), the effects of Merc activity should be somewhat offsetting, if they alone were the factor. Could be as simple as 2/3 of the time the majority of mercs actually play clans.

You and I might disagree as to all the reasons for why things are the way they are on the map in FW right now (players will disagree on stuff like that) but I think everyone can see the IS is in a bad way at the moment. Which really isn't great for the game as a whole. That is why the balance issue stays a "hot topic". It's just the reasons for current clan dominance that are debatable... That was the point of what I said.






#188 MovinTarget

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 10:10 AM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 25 September 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Maybe I was a bit confusing in what I was saying. The map doesn't show any semblance of balance in the game. Therefore, folks are going to look for reasons why the clans are dominating play (at the current moment). Possible reasons I submitted for this are clan tech or mechs (which you deny as a current imbalance... Fair enough) and/or a talent imbalance in teams/players....just that the clans might currently have more of the active MWO talent pool (good units) playing on their side currently (this seem to agree with in your above post). Could be some other reason as well.

Side note: if merc activity is the factor, it would have to be in conjunction with something else (like clans having more active loyalists) as many switch sides so often (many units switch back and forth between clans and IS weekly), the effects of Merc activity should be somewhat offsetting, if they alone were the factor. Could be as simple as 2/3 of the time the majority of mercs actually play clans.

You and I might disagree as to all the reasons for why things are the way they are on the map in FW right now (players will disagree on stuff like that) but I think everyone can see the IS is in a bad way at the moment. Which really isn't great for the game as a whole. That is why the balance issue stays a "hot topic". It's just the reasons for current clan dominance that are debatable... That was the point of what I said.


except that Merc movements are not necessarily offsetting. consider that there is absolutely nothing to keep merc units from re-upping with the same faction ad infinitum such that they are basically closet loyalists with the ability to bolt with out penalty when they want.

The only way to really consider balance is to look analyze the performance of Mercs over an extended period of time that have played roughly the same # of games on both sides. If they have hundreds of games on each side then all the per-game variables fall to the wayside (or at least tend to diminish in influence).

Would love for them to post GP/W/L stats for Mercs as IS and as Clan...

Gather a large enough sample set and you should be able to find trends.

#189 SmokeGuar

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 10:35 AM

Most of activity on FW is merc based, Clan loyalist units have been very low key most of this year.
All this really revolves around is : "Ever walked a mile in other mans shoes?".
I get it, IS side is having though time right now. Has this always been the same? Might as well answer myself, nope.
Basically Clan loyalists are largely in same hole as IS loyalist. Problem is we get absolutely no understanding from IS loyalist, who only see their side.

Regarding latest event, Timber Wolf seems rather middle of the road mech, rather than 750 ton murder machine IS pugs describe it.

#190 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 10:46 AM

View PostMovinTarget, on 25 September 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:


except that Merc movements are not necessarily offsetting. consider that there is absolutely nothing to keep merc units from re-upping with the same faction ad infinitum such that they are basically closet loyalists with the ability to bolt with out penalty when they want.

The only way to really consider balance is to look analyze the performance of Mercs over an extended period of time that have played roughly the same # of games on both sides. If they have hundreds of games on each side then all the per-game variables fall to the wayside (or at least tend to diminish in influence).

Would love for them to post GP/W/L stats for Mercs as IS and as Clan...

Gather a large enough sample set and you should be able to find trends.



I would like to see those stats as well. As you have the same pilot talent playing both sides...Wouldn't definitively prove any specific reason why things are the way they are, but would be of interest.

#191 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 10:59 AM

View PostSmokeGuar, on 25 September 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Most of activity on FW is merc based, Clan loyalist units have been very low key most of this year.
All this really revolves around is : &quot;Ever walked a mile in other mans shoes?&quot;.
I get it, IS side is having though time right now. Has this always been the same? Might as well answer myself, nope.
Basically Clan loyalists are largely in same hole as IS loyalist. Problem is we get absolutely no understanding from IS loyalist, who only see their side.

Regarding latest event, Timber Wolf seems rather middle of the road mech, rather than 750 ton murder machine IS pugs describe it.


Normally, I am have been a Merc. I went loyalist with the FRR to do a mechbay tour (which I failed to do in phase 2) with the FRR before the Frontline 2 event a couple of weeks ago (terrible timing to do it). so I play the Clan side and will do so again, probably reasonably soon. Probably will be CSJ even..

There have definitely been the "haves" and the "have nots" as far as loyalists go. Most factions and clans have struggled with loyalists in phase 3. Some... like Jade seem to have a lot. The FRR, Davion and CGB made out ok for the majority of the past couple of months. Steiner seems to have lost a lot of good loyalist units.

I agree on the timber wolf. Just another good mech... Not OP... Not a priority target...but i don't think anyone on the IS side is seriously questioning the mech balance of heavy mechs themselves. If anything the IS is slightly better off overall in that class. It's lights, mediums and assaults (just the KDK-3. Which is only one mech, but you only can afford bring one to FW) that people question.



#192 Ironically Ironclad Irony

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 12:38 PM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 25 September 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:



I would like to see those stats as well. As you have the same pilot talent playing both sides...Wouldn't definitively prove any specific reason why things are the way they are, but would be of interest.


Granted, if this could be proven easily this thread would be a lot shorter, but i would think if anything could proce/disprove this assertion its a large sample set of data based on the same players playing both sides.

Edited by Ironically Ironclad Irony, 25 September 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#193 Ninjah

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 01:01 PM

I do great in clan mechs, better then in IS. So it's all about the approach, saying that clan mechs suck is just ridiculous. My 7ml Hellbringer with OP modules says HI.

#194 Kael Posavatz

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 01:27 PM

Try looking at who is actually fighting and winning. It tends to be the same people regardless of whether they are in IS mechs or Clan mechs.

#195 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 01:47 PM

View PostKael Posavatz, on 25 September 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

Try looking at who is actually fighting and winning. It tends to be the same people regardless of whether they are in IS mechs or Clan mechs.

but......but........I wan't to believe that the team that wins has the better mechsPosted Image

#196 MovinTarget

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 01:56 PM

Again, most of the people that are crying for balance are the ones that don't do as well as they *think* they should, it is very hard to be objective. Additionally, (again) most people don't want balance really, they want a slight edge, just enough that they can't be accused of cheesing but enough that they can play with additional confidence.

Few people are gunning for a 50/50 W/L ratio... Some are just more intensely chasing the win than other.

#197 MovinTarget

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:45 AM

If clan mechs are a joke, it must be a good one... the lowest high scores on the heavy leaderboards are all IS currently...

The lowest clan high score is the summoner with ~3100...

Archer - ~2800
Orion - ~3000
Cataphract - ~3000
Dragon - ~3000

One can say that IS migh have an edge in some weight classes and Clans in others, but if FP drop decks *mostly* are comprised of more heavies than any other class (which they typically are) then consider that they are at the very least not outclassed in the most important weight class for FP.

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 September 2016 - 06:17 AM.


#198 MovinTarget

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:31 AM

Ranking all the (current) top scores in heavies in this event:

Hellbringer - ~4200 (clan)


Warhammer - ~4000 (IS)


Night Gyr - ~3800 (clan)


Ebon Jaguar -~3700 (clan)


Catapult - ~3500 (IS)
Grasshopper - ~3500 (IS)
Timber Wolf - ~3500 (clan)

Black Knight - ~3400 (IS)
Marauder - ~3400 (IS)
Quickdraw - ~3400 (IS)
Thunderbolt - ~3300(IS)
Jagermech - ~3300 (IS)
Rifleman -~3300 (IS)
Mad Dog -~3300 (clan)
Orion IIc -~3300 (clan) *okay score was 1294...*


Summoner -~3100 (clan)


Orion - ~3000 (IS)
Dragon - ~3000 (IS)
Cataphract - ~3000 (IS)
Archer -~2896 *okay, I'll call it 3000* (IS)


So 3 of the current top 4 mechs are clan, 0 of the bottom 4 are clan...

I am not trying to make the assertion that clans are better, just that clan mechs are *not* inferior. For the most part they are pretty darn balanced with diverse strengths and weaknesses.

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 September 2016 - 06:31 AM.


#199 SteelHoves

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:27 AM

I want to point out that u cannot use a QP leader board event to show balance in a totally different game mode. in quick play u have 1 mech in FW u get 4. I think people tend to not look at the real cause of the current FW imbalance. Clan SSRM6 is the real imbalance here. It is mechs like the MDD and HBK that can run a large amount of SSRM 6 effectively that make this weapon so powerful. This weapon removes IS lights and medium mechs up to 45t from being effective. its very common for a competent Clan team to have 4 or more Streak mechs in the later rounds to one shot those mechs. IS teams knowing this are forced to run 3 to four lighter heavy mechs and maybe only 1 medium of 50+ tons. well when u run say 4 60-65t mechs u open the door for the Kodiak 3 to shine. So this puts the IS at a tactical disadvantage. IS is limited to the mechs it can run to counter Clan drop decks. Having been on both sides of the fence and seeing this match after match its not hard to see why IS especially the loyalist dont show up anymore.

#200 MovinTarget

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 08:14 AM

View PostSteelHoves, on 26 September 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

I want to point out that u cannot use a QP leader board event to show balance in a totally different game mode. in quick play u have 1 mech in FW u get 4. I think people tend to not look at the real cause of the current FW imbalance. Clan SSRM6 is the real imbalance here. It is mechs like the MDD and HBK that can run a large amount of SSRM 6 effectively that make this weapon so powerful. This weapon removes IS lights and medium mechs up to 45t from being effective. its very common for a competent Clan team to have 4 or more Streak mechs in the later rounds to one shot those mechs. IS teams knowing this are forced to run 3 to four lighter heavy mechs and maybe only 1 medium of 50+ tons. well when u run say 4 60-65t mechs u open the door for the Kodiak 3 to shine. So this puts the IS at a tactical disadvantage. IS is limited to the mechs it can run to counter Clan drop decks. Having been on both sides of the fence and seeing this match after match its not hard to see why IS especially the loyalist dont show up anymore.


Noted, however to go back to the OP:

View PostChaoticUrlond, on 02 June 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Lets give good reasons why Clan Mechs are a joke and most Clan Factions are a Joke as well!

I'll start Clan Mechs are a joke cause we dont have the agility to counter the IS Mechs. An IS Mech can easily be forgiven for going to the wrong place or firing to early due to their quirks. Clans not so much so if we screw up we're dead.

Clan Factions are also a joke cause "Teamwork is non existent."


There are no qualifiers in his assertion that his problems with clan mechs are wholly and completely tied to his problems with Clan Factions, therefore you cannot infer that his statements regarding clan mechs pertain solely to FP.

In fact many of the other arguments made have little to nothing to do with FP. It's "IS haz quirks" or "Clams 2 hawt" so you know, talking about the mechs themselves. So as I said, my points are not the end-all be all, but like any theory/assertion/blanket-statement-getting-too-much-attention ("Clan Mechs are a Joke"), all it takes is one example that is irrefutable to disprove it.

All I am saying is that Pilots seems to do just fine in clan Heavy mechs; therefore, how can they *all* be a joke?

So if the OP were to have said "Some Clan Mechs are a Joke" it would have been much more accurate and probably much less imflammatory... Then again, aren't some IS mechs considered "a joke" to run by the more competetive-minded part of the community?

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 September 2016 - 08:20 AM.






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