213 replies to this topic

[Dzorak]

I think Clans are harder to play. You need more discipline (due to heat) and you must use you superior speed on heavy (and some assault) Mechs.
Unfortunately many pilots tend to stop if they see a target (yes, me too).
You just cannot play a Clan Mech as if it is an IS Mech and expect to win. Takes some learning to master them.

The biggest disadvantage for the Clans is the lack of fast light Mechs. I think only the ACH is capable of taking on fast IS scouts, the others are too slow. Hard to keep up with a Locust, Jenner or Cicada of they top your max speed by 50%.

I think both sides are quite balanced, the Clans just have fewer good Mechs to chose from. And the FW maps could use some balancing.

But even more important is playing as a team. No matter if you play Clan vs IS, Clan vs Clan or IS vs IS, usually the better TEAM wins. But of course the imbalanced Mechs get the blame...

[Stahlherz]

Dzorak, on 03 June 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

The biggest disadvantage for the Clans is the lack of fast light Mechs. I think only the ACH is capable of taking on fast IS scouts, the others are too slow. Hard to keep up with a Locust, Jenner or Cicada of they top your max speed by 50%.

Want a fast Clan Light?
Jenner IIc A - 156 km/h
Enjoy.

[SneekiBreeki]

The balance is almost there IMHO, all it needs is a couple tweaks:

1) An increase to the IS LPL burning duration (it's way too short, hell it even beats the Clan SPL duration-wise).

2) A "normalization pass" to the DHS heat cap (bring both the IS and Clan Double heatsinks on par stat-wise).

3) The weapon quirks needs to go on the majority of the laser boats (the energy duration quirks comes to mind in this case).

[MischiefSC]

Feral Goose, on 03 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

The MWO World Championship 2016 Tournament will easily put all of this back-and-forth on this subject finally to rest. You have teams competing for a winners' purse. So when there is something of value actually on the line, what mechs do you think these teams are going to be using?
Oh, we may see some clan mechs in the first few waves of this event, but don't expect to see those teams make it very far up the ladder. The format is 2/2/2/2 (light/med/heavy/assault) per team; Game Mode: Conquest, Map: Canyon Network.

You will not see the top 50% teams use any clan mechs in ways that suggest there is any type of balance, and that is the final nail in the coffin over this discussion.

So continue debating "but it works on paper", I'll let reality speak for itself.

*drops the mic*

Okay. I'll make sure Lords knows they're a bunch of scrubs who don't understand what works and what doesn't.

Yes, let reality speak for itself like it has done on the leaderboard shows and every comp tournament for the last year.

You should start working on your excuse for when it comes out that Clan mechs represent just fine (they're less than 25% of total mechs but closer to 50% of mechs in comp play) you'll need to try and explain away why.

We have comp play events all the time already. Clan mechs represent just fine.

[Jman5]

Feral Goose, on 03 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

The MWO World Championship 2016 Tournament will easily put all of this back-and-forth on this subject finally to rest. You have teams competing for a winners' purse. So when there is something of value actually on the line, what mechs do you think these teams are going to be using?
Oh, we may see some clan mechs in the first few waves of this event, but don't expect to see those teams make it very far up the ladder. The format is 2/2/2/2 (light/med/heavy/assault) per team; Game Mode: Conquest, Map: Canyon Network.

You will not see the top 50% teams use any clan mechs in ways that suggest there is any type of balance, and that is the final nail in the coffin over this discussion.

So continue debating "but it works on paper", I'll let reality speak for itself.

*drops the mic*

*picks up the mic*

[MischiefSC]

Jman5, on 03 June 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

*picks up the mic*

Nightscorn? Lords?

He means the comp people, not some random scrub teams. If those guys were any good they'd have them IS lazor boats, cuz that's the REAL meta. Also everyone KNOWS the KDK3 isn't as good as the Mauler! Where's the Black Knights which are totally OP and them Battlemasters?

Oh, wait. Wait a second. Clan mechs represent at least half if not more of mechs in comp play even though they're only like 25% or less of total mechs in the game.

Clearly them comp players just don't understand how the game plays. Have they tried more LRM ACH and Kit Foxes? Those are very popular now. Secret FW Clan meta.

[Roland09]

You two are clearly off topic. The original poster was asking for good reasons why Clan mechs are a joke and most Clan factions as well.

Here, I show you how it's done:

"Clan mechs are a joke because they were nerfed into the ground because PGI always listens to unceasing IS whining, to the point where there is no competitive Clan mech at all. This all happened because PGI hates Clanners, Russ has said so himself. Just look at the map, there is your proof. They even gave negative quirks to Clan mechs while all the IS mechs got buffed. Just look at the Locust-1V. Can you show me a single Clan mech which has -50% laser duration? See, another proof. And they gave IS players extra tons for their drop decks. PGI totally direspects THE LORE, this is not BattleTech anymore, they should rename the game. And they should listen to their paying customers more instead of the free loaders. After all, Clan mechs are much more expensive: Just compare the price of a mastery bundle with the 210 USD you need to fork up to get a Mad Cat. See, another proof PGI screws the Clanners."

[Requiemking]

I'm not going to complain about Clan mech performance. My main issue is with Prices. Most Clan mechs are insanely expensive, the cheapest being just shy of 5 million cbills. Now, how does one fix this issue? The most obvious solution would simply be to drop the prices but, as we are well aware, this will never happen. So, my suggestion? Finish adding the IIC mechs. There are still at least a dozen usable IIC mechs, and plenty of incentive to add them. Even with ones like the Commando IIC and the Wolfhound IIC, where there was only one variant. PGI has already demonstrated that they are willing to create more variants for the game, they did it with the Orion IIC.

Edited by Requiemking, 03 June 2016 - 11:32 PM.

[SmokeGuar]

Is this Faction map?

No.

Are these fast, jump capable mechs?

Yes.

Are these early matches where teams test mechs and tactics?

Yes.

Major difference between FW and QP maps are choke points. On QP most choke points can be flanked, FW this is much harder.

Btw, idea about single Clan vs IS tussle is clearly taking place, active teams are heading on Falcons / Steiner border. Rest of map is dead, 'cos lack of critical mass of players.

[S T I N G S]

I have 2 things to say about this

1. If you dont like the clans and their mechs. Then go play IS mechs for a change until you feel Clans are to the level that you like them at.

2. Clan mechs overpower IS mechs from range and people can run SRM's and SSRM's and get easy damage because the Clan mechs are so fast compared to the IS mechs. Clans have more ecm making it harder to find them which is when sometimes you will turn a corner and see Warhawk spam with UAC/10's.

[Aiden Skye]

Appogee, on 02 June 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Stats are only collected for Quick Play.

Maybe Clan Mechs are only a "joke" in Faction Play...?



Uh oh, 5 of the top 10 Merc pilots on the Faction Play leaderboard happen to mostly pilot Clan Mechs, too.

Judge Khan is throwing out this evidence. Those leader-boards are the real joke here. CW is nothing more than premades stomping disorganized pugs 99% of the time. Easy to have good stats when you are always clubbing seals.

[Charles Sennet]

IS mech have more hit points, better heat management, and have far better pinpoint weapons. These are the most important attributes in the game and they all favor IS right now. Russ himself says "pinpoint damage is king". That alone is a balance-breaker let alone the others. This really should be no debate here. It's super obvious to anyone who has some experience playing this game.

[Der Hesse]

Jman5, on 03 June 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

*picks up the mic*

Ty for that screenshot. Not much more to say.

[SneekiBreeki]

Oh boy, here we go again...

[TercieI]

Jman5, on 03 June 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

*picks up the mic*

Our main deck is 6/8 clan.

[TercieI]

Requiemking, on 03 June 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm not going to complain about Clan mech performance. My main issue is with Prices. Most Clan mechs are insanely expensive, the cheapest being just shy of 5 million cbills. Now, how does one fix this issue? The most obvious solution would simply be to drop the prices but, as we are well aware, this will never happen. So, my suggestion? Finish adding the IIC mechs. There are still at least a dozen usable IIC mechs, and plenty of incentive to add them. Even with ones like the Commando IIC and the Wolfhound IIC, where there was only one variant. PGI has already demonstrated that they are willing to create more variants for the game, they did it with the Orion IIC.

They're not any more expensive than similarly upgraded IS mechs, though. The only real difference is that you can share engines on the IS side. Of course, on Clan Battlemechs you can do that, too.

Edited by TercieI, 04 June 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Der Hesse]

We had this price discussion a hundret times i really wonder how it can come up again in every balance thread.

[SneekiBreeki]

Psst. I told ya, just increase the IS LPL burning duration and all is good. :3

Edited by TimberWolf87, 04 June 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I have watched as many Tournament matches as I can and it seems the Clans and IS Mechs are pretty much equally represented. Kodiaks dominate the Assault ranks and the Jenner II-C is well represented in the Light ranks. It is the Heavy and Medium range where Clan Mechs are noticeably absent.

I play exclusively Clan. I only own two IS Mechs. One was free and the other I bought way back before there were any Clan Mechs in the game. I think the overall balance is pretty good. I do not think that Clan Mechs are JUNK.

But then I would play them even if they were junk because I like the underdog. I do not even own the Mechs that are generally consider the "good" Clan Mechs. Therefore, take my opinion with with a heaping helping of your own salt.

[Appogee]

W A R K H A N, on 04 June 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Judge Khan is throwing out this evidence. Those leader-boards are the real joke here. CW is nothing more than premades stomping disorganized pugs 99% of the time. Easy to have good stats when you are always clubbing seals.

Can Judge Khan explain why this would be in any way relevant to the consideration of whether "Clan Mechs are a joke" or not?

Fact is: both IS and Clan Mechs appear in equal numbers in the leaderboard. And there's a lot of other similarities in stats across Clan and IS. Whether those scores were achieved stomping pugs or not is irrelevant.

It's clear that the 50% of guys in the top 10 who favour Clan Mechs clearly do not find those Mechs "a joke", and are achieving significant success in them.

Edited by Appogee, 04 June 2016 - 10:01 AM.