177 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Slimmer Awesome with better leg to torso ratio would be...well, awesome.

[invernomuto]

El Bandito, on 04 June 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Slimmer Awesome with better leg to torso ratio would be...well, awesome.

But not too slimmer or it does not seems an Awesome!
BTW, it's a mech that I'd like to buy and I am very interested in the rescale of this model. Hope that it gets better hitboxes, right now eberyone seems to have a pretty bad opinion of the Awesome

[Ryllen Kriel]

I'm worried about medium mechs. They are hardly an overpowered weight class and there is a big difference between a 40-45 or a 50-55 tonnage rating in statistics and roles played on the battlefield. Surely the scaling would be dramatically different in this mech weight category yet rumours suggest they will be closer in size.

If the upcoming Phoenix Hawk is similar in size to a Griffin with ten tonnes less for maximum armour and weapons then things are looking rough. Sure it has a high engine rating, but that costs tonnage! Scaling will make a huge difference in the survivability of this mech. The mass difference is 18.18% for 45 tonne mechs and 27.27% for 40 tonne mechs if the Cicada is increased in scale as well.

The same goes for the Blackjack, which has a relatively low engine cap for a medium mech and will be hurt by a significant size increase. And don't even get me started on Vindicators, if PGI makes those larger then they may as well just mount the reactor on the outside of the mech armour with a bullseye painted on the front and a "kick me" sign on the back.

I am trying to hope for the best here but I anticipate a hard hit to some lighter medium mechs that will make them fairly useless. To a medium mech fan like me, this potentially could ruin the game for a weight class that is a lot of fun and really doesn't need a nerfing.

[Cy Mitchell]

I am looking forward to the resize as it will provide a bases to put all the Mechs on even ground.

I hope they remove all the quirks and add back only the ones that are absolutely necessary.

Edited by Rampage, 04 June 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[Tordin]

invernomuto, on 04 June 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

No, they standardized the side (or, better, the volume) of each mechs in relations to tonnage. So some mechs will be bigger, other smaller, but mechs with similar tonnage will have similar volumes. So we won't have Griffins that are almost the size of an assault...

I just hope they also adjust hitboxes and quirks accordingly to not fatally flaw or overenhance certain mechs.

Take the Tiber Wolf for example. I dont think it will recieve any rescale, it really needs NO change. Its just in the right spot IMO.
Just hypotetically think it will turn a bit bigger. Meaning being a bigger target, will its old hit boxes make sure its just as good at spreading damage as before, will it need better quirks if at all?

[KodiakGW]

Very little info (including screen shots) has been given about this considering they said almost all of the older mechs were being looked at. And, no Town Hall this Friday. Anybody else thinking we might get a "this is being postponed" notification in the pipe?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Nah, time warner is causing me to disco constantly atm so I'm playing monster hunter freedom unite again some stellaris and toukiden kiwami. Also... Gods Eater Burst 2 comes to PC in august so... PGI has about 2 months to capture my imagination before I disappear for several months again.

[Cy Mitchell]

KodiakGW, on 04 June 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Very little info (including screen shots) has been given about this considering they said almost all of the older mechs were being looked at. And, no Town Hall this Friday. Anybody else thinking we might get a "this is being postponed" notification in the pipe?

I think it is on track for June 21 release. I asked the question to Sean Lang and Daeron on the NGNG podcast a couple days ago and Sean said he has seen the list of rescale and that we will be seeing images of the re-scaled Mechs between now and June 21st. He gave no hint that there were any problems that would lead to a delay.

[cazidin]

Rampage, on 04 June 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

I think it is on track for June 21 release. I asked the question to Sean Lang and Daeron on the NGNG podcast a couple days ago and Sean said he has seen the list of rescale and that we will be seeing images of the re-scaled Mechs between now and June 21st. He gave no hint that there were any problems that would lead to a delay.

But, honestly, would he? I'd like to stay optimistic but I can guarantee you that people WILL find flaws, even small ones, and write very nasty posts about the flaws, perceived or real. I'm cautiously optimistic about both the rescale and QUIRKENING:V AGE OF THE SPIDER.

[Malleus011]

PGI has forgotten how to communicate (again) and I expect this will happen just like Phase 3's release - hardly any communication, previews, or testing; then a massive update dumped onto the playerbase.

We'll spend the first week pointing out glaringly obvious flaws that will take a handful of hotfixes to correct. Well, correct 50% of them, the others will inexplicably be left in for six months to two years despite being serious issues.

Overall, volumetric scaling should be good for the title, but PGI just doesn't have the horsepower to really do major updates by using best practices, and can't be arsed to communicate with their playerbase.

[Johnny Z]

Ryllen Kriel, on 04 June 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

I'm worried about medium mechs. They are hardly an overpowered weight class and there is a big difference between a 40-45 or a 50-55 tonnage rating in statistics and roles played on the battlefield. Surely the scaling would be dramatically different in this mech weight category yet rumours suggest they will be closer in size.

If the upcoming Phoenix Hawk is similar in size to a Griffin with ten tonnes less for maximum armour and weapons then things are looking rough. Sure it has a high engine rating, but that costs tonnage! Scaling will make a huge difference in the survivability of this mech. The mass difference is 18.18% for 45 tonne mechs and 27.27% for 40 tonne mechs if the Cicada is increased in scale as well.

The same goes for the Blackjack, which has a relatively low engine cap for a medium mech and will be hurt by a significant size increase. And don't even get me started on Vindicators, if PGI makes those larger then they may as well just mount the reactor on the outside of the mech armour with a bullseye painted on the front and a "kick me" sign on the back.

I am trying to hope for the best here but I anticipate a hard hit to some lighter medium mechs that will make them fairly useless. To a medium mech fan like me, this potentially could ruin the game for a weight class that is a lot of fun and really doesn't need a nerfing.

As a wild guess, the Phoenix Hawk will be similar size as the Cicada except a stand up mech of course, and 5 tons heavier.

This realistic sizing for mechs that were previously scaled off, for balance, is something that has haunted MechWarrior Online since closed beta. Quirks made proper scaling possible.

Proper scaling is a massive hurdle this game will finally be over.


Also, as of now the heaviest mech I am comfortable taking an Xl engine in is the Cicada. The Phoenix Hawk will change that, adding a 45 tonner with an Xl and fairly good durability to the Inner Sphere roster.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 June 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

given PGI's history, I'm not holding my breath on something of this scale. I'll be surprised if they don't completely mess everything up. I'll be happy if the game actually loads up after the June patch. also, I hope they completely mess up Frozen City as well.

[Cy Mitchell]

Malleus011, on 04 June 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

PGI has forgotten how to communicate (again) and I expect this will happen just like Phase 3's release - hardly any communication, previews, or testing; then a massive update dumped onto the playerbase.

We'll spend the first week pointing out glaringly obvious flaws that will take a handful of hotfixes to correct. Well, correct 50% of them, the others will inexplicably be left in for six months to two years despite being serious issues.

Overall, volumetric scaling should be good for the title, but PGI just doesn't have the horsepower to really do major updates by using best practices, and can't be arsed to communicate with their playerbase.

During the podcast that I mentioned above NGNG also reported that there would be no more "Scheduled" Town Halls. They did not give a reason for their discontinuation. I suspect it was the negative feedback that they were getting on this forum. It is sad to see another conduit for information exchange between the game developer and the community go away.

I guess with the level of toxicity and negativity (some rightfully earned) towards PGI that is prevalent in this community it is understandable why they would want to insulate themselves from some of it.

Still, I am hopeful that the re-scale will be a step in the right direction. Will some people be unhappy and whine? Absolutely, there will be lamenting, wailing and gnashing of teeth when someone's favorite toy is no longer the best toy on the playground but PGI needs to stand their ground. There are lots of toys and even the most spoiled brat will eventually give up and pick up a different one if you make it clear that you are not going to give in to the tantrum.

[Mavairo]

I am. I suspect a great deal of mechs are going to find new life.

[Queen of England]

I'm looking forward to the re-scale. At the very least, the remodel of the K2 that puts the ballistic hardpoints above the cockpit should be nice.

[Airwind]

no longer looking forward to anything. xD only battletech to get back my mechwarrior spirit

[ScarecrowES]

I wouldn't expect a significant re-quirk pass to drop with the re-scales. Obviously some of the most-changed mechs will probably see structure quirks reduced initially, because it's pretty easy to guess how a massive resize will effect the balance of a mech. However, for many of the smaller-change mechs - and bare in mind many are changing by less than 2% - I would not expect a corresponding quirk pass. It's probably better to take a wait-and-see approach for those mechs.

The most complicated issue with re-scales comes from mechs that aren't getting re-scaled so much as remodeled... such as the Catapult, Awesome, Dire Wolf, Warhawk, Grasshopper, etc. Since the proportions for those mechs are changing, it will greatly effect their survivability. You may find mechs that didn't change significantly in tonnage will still change a lot due to the re-model... smaller torsos, bigger legs, etc.

We actually know a LOT about what's going on with the re-scales, but unfortunately there's no one good source for information regarding that process. Much of what we know is gathered from talks with persons in-the-know, various posts from PGI on Twitter and other media, etc.

[Y E O N N E]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 04 June 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

Resize? I damn well hope the Jenner stops being the size of a Locust, and the KFX stops being the size of a Nova.

Well you are in luck, because the Locust is getting a massive shrink, apparently.

[Bishop Steiner]

JC Daxion, on 04 June 2016 - 01:24 AM, said:

TITLE SAYS IT ALL

I was.

When it was announced we were finally getting a universal rescale, I was elated. I was certainly one of the front runners campaigning for this for most of the last 4 years. Even when the usual suspects started crying because of the use of Volumetric scaling over their precious pixel and other (less accurate) measurements, I was pretty stoked.

But the last 3-4 months, PGI has largely returned to their besieged bunker mentallity of 2013. Each TH, Russ became more withdrawn and combative, til this last month (thankfully) we had none. The Archer release fiasco, Russ going mechwarrior-dark on Twitter. Etc. Yes it was certainly exacerbated by certain cretins who spent the last few months haranguing the crap out of him every way imaginable. But regardless how we got here, we are here now.

And in truth, my enthusiasm is waning. It's not quite end of 2013 low, but it's not far off.

Too many roads not taken, too many opportunities to quell the critics and slay some of the balance gremlins passed or outright ignored. Maybe Russ is taking a much needed month to wake and bake in the Bahamas and get his mojo back. Maybe he's hanging out with Sir Richard Branson looking for inspiration. Maybe we'll get a refreshed Russ soon. Maybe later this month we get our rescale and requirkening and Phoenix Hawk and are simply floored. IDK.

I hope so.

But I am not getting my hopes up, that the game will get better, or the community less toxic.

[oldradagast]

Honestly, I'm not getting my hopes up for a few reasons:

- Some preliminary evidence points to questionable thought or math going into this effort. For example, Catapult and Nova are getting smaller - yeah! But Blackjack (a nearly worthless mech outside of its super-quirks) and Grasshopper (way too tall and dependent totally upon energy-weapon meta to be viable) are getting larger. So, while standards are good, when somebody tells me a 70-ton mech that stands about as tall as 90 to 100 tons mechs needs to be larger/fatter, I start losing confidence in the metrics being used.

- All Quirks are going to be rebalanced AGAIN after the geometry resizing. While not a bad idea in theory, I do hope that PGI understands that just because two mechs of the same tonnage now take up the same volume, that does not mean they are equal mechs. Consider the laughably horrible Awesome. Even if resized properly, it is still a fat, slow, ballistics-free platform with no useful high-mounted hardpoints. If quirks are stripped away from junk chassis because "now they are the right size" the meta will actually stagnant further after the resizing.

We'll see what happens, but I'm not getting my hopes up based on past experiences. A few junk mechs will probably become viable, a few viable mechs will become junk, the meta will remain stale, and PGI will simply shrug their shoulders and walk away because "all mechs are the right size, so everything is balanced."