188 replies to this topic

[PFC Carsten]

Just another PUG here, but after the most recent changes to FW, I haven't played a single match, not even during the event, IIRC - apart from a couple of scouting missions.

PGI thoroughly took a wrong turn at every decision-making point they ever passed over the last years wrt Faction Play.

[Appogee]

When you farm relentlessly you eventually make the land barren.

So I'm not feeling wildly sympathetic at this point.

However, to be fair, much of the blame must lie with a developer apparently incapable of designing a mode that discouraged farming. It all stems from their failure to actually start coding FP until long after they said they did... rushing it half-baked out the door, and declaring "no matchmaking" to be "hardcore mode" as if that is a viable ongoing design decision.

Since then they've put off the required surgery in favor of merely applying additional band-aids.

Edited by Appogee, 05 June 2016 - 06:35 AM.

[Armando]

z3a1ot, on 05 June 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

In reality big units did this to themselves sadly. Who in a right mind wants to sit in a que waiting for a game sometimes over 20 mins just to be farmed and not have fun at all (im saying this from a PUG solo player perspective).

While I understand and agree your statement is the 'perception'...The REALITY is the units that win 90+% of their matches (play as a TEAM) that is the cause of MUCH butthurt.

Of course -MS- is guilty of both (wins a lot AND is 'big') so, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, but any 'group' (I say this because they are NOT 'teams') that faces a 'small unit' such as [KCom], or [EVIL], or any TEAM that WINS CONSISTENTLY will STILL end with the SAME result (butthurt).

z3a1ot, on 05 June 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

Wait times are an issue also. Bad design from the start to begin with. Nobody wants to play waitingwarrior online. No matchmaker at all, putting solos against groups another issue.

In my opinion they should "quickplay" FW, meaning I want to get into matches by just simply clicking on a "play" button, wait for a minimum amount of time and be properly matched against other people. Units against solos is just bad policy. This is why you got 40 people playing atm.

Which brings us to the REAL problem; PILOTS PLAYING A TEAM GAME MODE.....SOLO! Who in a right mind queues up for a TEAM GAME MODE.....SOLO....and expects to have ANY SUCCESS what so ever?

To be honest, I don't really blame 'SOLO' players. I know you thinking, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT....how are they NOT to blame? Let me tell you....

The in-game tools and resources to find, join, and play AS A UNIT suck DONKEY BALLS. This is not, I REPEAT NOT, the 'solo pilots' fault IMHO (nor ANY unit in the game...big or small), but instead lies firmly on PGI's shoulders. Although, playing a 'team game mode'....SOLO...and expecting any result but loss, after loss, after loss, is delusional.

So, we 'could' blame the 'big units', OR we 'could' blame 'pilots who play a TEAM game mode SOLO', OR we 'could' blame 'PGI for allowing SOLO players to queue for a TEAM game mode'. I know where I put the blame (its not solo pilots, or units).

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[Neil Diamond]

Scoops Kerensky, on 04 June 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

It sure does, pretty soon all the bad people will be gone and the game will be perfect friend

So you're going to tell me that PGI is to blame for HHoD having 400+ players, etc? Comp. teams are comp. teams, regardless of size. You need to stop drinking whatever you are liking. Of course the larger Units are going to have players who are migrating to other games.

But I have seen a few MS 8-12 man drops in Pug matches, so whatever is being spun in this thread, isn't entirely accurate. I have seen RustyBolts in the solo queue a few times. But a TS shot shows nada, in terms of accusing PGI of breaking up larger units. Which never should have been that large in the first place.

Appogee, on 05 June 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

When you farm relentlessly you eventually make the land barren.

So I'm not feeling wildly sympathetic at this point.

My feelings exactly. They have reaped long enough and now they must be sown.

Edited by War 4H, 05 June 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[SteamCharts Kerensky]

Targeting the most active, excited, and successful in-game groups is a great way to ensure that your multiplayer game will thrive for years to come.

Nobody likes those guys.

[Neil Diamond]

You like your own posts. Narcissism is a character flaw.

[SteamCharts Kerensky]

If you don't like your own posts, why make them in the first place?

[Neil Diamond]

Why make an outrageous claim that the larger units like this game more than anyone else?

[C E Dwyer]

Armando, on 04 June 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

To be fair, that list only shows STEAM players....to be counted as 'on' a pilot would need to...

...have a Steam account.
...launch MWO from Steam.

As an example:

I have a Steam account, AND I have MWO...but I do not launch MWO from Steam (Not counted as being on, even when I am on).

To put it another way: These numbers represent a percent, of a percent, of the ACTUAL MechWarrior Online population.

It is a percentage, yes, but what kind of a percentage, PGI won't tell us, so wild speculation.

My current estimate is that between a a third to half the people playing use steam, this has gone up since my last estimate. which was around a fifth to a third, it's just a feeling, on how many I know have left for good or are currently like me given up for a while.

I would think that the e-comp is not adding to population but starving the other modes of play, making it more likely that people will give up and play something else.

but I doubt that the population is this game at weekend exceeds 8000.

Armored warfare, a game that is struggling for PvP players on NA servers currently but they don't hide population numbers, last I took a look, it was around 6.5k most playing pvE co-op

[z3a1ot]

Armando, on 05 June 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

snip

I really don't blame Units (be they big or small) even though that looked like in my post. I respect that people want to play in organised units and have respect for those players really.

What you got in reality now is the causality effect, like that Frenchmen from Matrix would say, units stomp solos and solos stop playing. FW in fact need solo players to fill the ranks otherwise there would be ghost drops everywhere, or more that you have them now. So there is no really point for anyone to play at all.

I agree when you say its on PGI and bad design but I do not agree that solo players should not play FW at all. I mean FW represents 50% of the entire game and why would anyone should be excluded from that?

That is why I say "quickplay" it somehow, make it viable for everyone. I personaly wouldn't mind if they simplified matchmaker for FW and mix groups and solo players to find matches faster. I mean there must be some kind of compromise, right?

[Armando]

War 4H, on 05 June 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Why make an outrageous claim that the larger units like this game more than anyone else?

There are small units that KICK A$$ in Faction Warfare. It is not the SIZE of the unit that wins / loses matches....it is their ability (or lack there of) to play the match as a TEAM that wins / loses matches. To put this another way; A team with a HORRIBLE plan that has mediocre execution will ROCK any group (notice I said 'group' and not 'team') that has no plan (a group of 12 'solo' pilots).

[Armando]

z3a1ot, on 05 June 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

I agree when you say its on PGI and bad design but I do not agree that solo players should not play FW at all. I mean FW represents 50% of the entire game and why would anyone should be excluded from that?

This is where we disagree...instead of allowing 'solo' players to partake in 'team game mode', PGI should provide solo pilots with the tools and resources to FIND a team BEFORE they queue for a 'team game mode'.

NO ONE should EVER 'drop solo' in a 'team game mode'. It is setting the solo player up for inevitable FAILURE, and setting teams up for lame, lopsided, boring gaming experience....the epitome of a lose / lose situation for EVERYONE.
___________________________________________________________

If I were to assign 'blame' for the current state of Faction Warfare it would be...

1) PGI for not giving solo players the tools and resources they need to find, join, and play as a team with teammates. (I blame PGI for not making it easy for 'solo' pilots to find a team before they queue for a 'team game mode').

2) Solo pilots for playing a 'team game mode'....SOLO. (Seriously, I have a Box of Rocks that has come up with better ideas...and I might add, the Rocks don't complain when their foolish ideas end in tears either).

Notice what is missing from the list....units. Why are the excluded? Because win or lose (and being in a unit, dropping as a team, is still no guarantee of success) they are playing a 'team game mode'...AS A TEAM. (I know, I know....what crazy, stupid, heartless A-Hol3$...right).

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[Clementine]

Take away Inner Sphere E Z mode quirks and then solo players being solo wont matter. Team work OP lmao. yeah..Quirks OP.

[Armando]

Clementine, on 05 June 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Take away Inner Sphere E Z mode quirks and then solo players being solo wont matter. Team work OP lmao. yeah..Quirks OP.

Teamwork is 1,000,000,000,000 times more OP than quirks.

To put this another way: 12 pilots in the worst trial mechs ever all shooting 1 target at a time (focus fire)... is going to beat.... 12 pilots in the most meta 'meta mechs' shooting at 8 different targets at a time....EVERY TIME.

Of course the chances of 12 'solo' pilots shooting at 8 different targets at once is almost laughable since 'solo' pilots tend to wander off in 10 different directions so what REALLY happens is:

12 pilots in the worst trial mechs ever all shooting at 1 target at a time vs 4-6 'solo' pilots in the most meta 'meta mechs' who did not wander off to far off points on the map, and of course those 4-6 'solo' pilots will likely be shooting at different mechs.
________________________________________________________

So, I have to ask...IS IT REALLY "UNITS" (BIG or small)" THAT ARE THE PROBLEM WITH FACTION WARFARE?

OR

Is it really "solo pilots who refuse to play a team game mode as a team" that are the problem with Faction Warfare?

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Clementine]

Armando, on 05 June 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Teamwork is 1,000,000,000,000 times more OP than quirks.

12 pilots in the worst trial mechs ever all shooting 1 target at a time (focus fire)... is going to beat.... 12 pilots in the most meta "meta mechs' shooting at 8 different targets at a time....EVERY TIME.

lol no.

[vocifer]

Sunny summer weekend. What would I do:

Spoiler

or

Spoiler

I just wonder?

[Armando]

Clementine, on 05 June 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

lol no.

Something about the number of 'teams' you have been on and the level of their training / skill....and not yes, but HELL YES!

With the right team everyone could drop in the absolute WORST trail mechs and still win 90+% of their matches against any group of 12 'solo' players.

To be fair... If you try that stupid sh!@t on even a mediocre team (as in a group of 8-9+ players in coms, with a 'drop commander') and you WILL get ripped to shreds no matter how good you and your teammates are (mech load outs DO MATTER), but against 12 'solo' players with no leadership...ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.

Focus Fire is the single most OP thing in the game....it is, literally, exponentially more powerful than everything else...FACT!

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Neil Diamond]

Armando, on 05 June 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

There are small units that KICK A$$ in Faction Warfare. It is not the SIZE of the unit that wins / loses matches....it is their ability (or lack there of) to play the match as a TEAM that wins / loses matches. To put this another way; A team with a HORRIBLE plan that has mediocre execution will ROCK any group (notice I said 'group' and not 'team') that has no plan (a group of 12 'solo' pilots).

I have seen both sides of the equation. My old unit had 36 members and played this game for fun. Sometimes I would drop as pug in CW and would get lauded for not having another unit member. So idiots promptly assumed I was the boat anchor, but the scoreboard reflected otherwise at the completion of the match.

But blaming PGI for the safety in numbers attribute of the larger units, is baseless in form and execution. The community is responsible for how large some of these units become. Personally, after a certain number most become a number and filler. I would rather know who I am playing with day after day. But we are all different and I at least can both respect it and not be a douche about it.

[RustyBolts]

Quote

But I have seen a few MS 8-12 man drops in Pug matches, so whatever is being spun in this thread, isn't entirely accurate. I have seen RustyBolts in the solo queue a few times. But a TS shot shows nada, in terms of accusing PGI of breaking up larger units. Which never should have been that large in the first place.

Not sure what you are saying here. I have dropped solo in the quick match que a lot lately for two reasons. 1) We are currently Clan and I wanted to level up my Oxide. 2) Since FW/CW is pretty much dead, I do not have a lot of options. I dropped solo a couple of times in FW/CW when I first came to MS, about a month ago, but I have not done that in weeks.

As far as TS goes, I can assure you that if I am dropping, regardless of que, I am in TS. If I am in the mechbay screwing around and not dropping, I may not be in TS. Maybe the screen shot was when I was not dropping.

[Armando]

War 4H, on 05 June 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

But we are all different and I at least can both respect it and not be a douche about it.

To be fair; I can be quite the douche.

That said, I am only 'hard' or 'douche like' with people / pilots / developers that I care about, LOVE even. I love this game, I love the people who play it (even the worst of the worst 'solo' pilots), and love PGI in general and Russ specifically.

I WANT to see 'solo' pilots developed into battle harden TEAM players (Please PGI, give them better tools and resources to do so). I WANT the transition from 'solo' pilot to TEAM player to be an easy one, seamless if you will.

NONE of that can happen unless we stop pointing fingers at each other (team players point to solo players...solo players point to team players) and get on the same page...the page where there are no more 'solo' pilots because finding a team is so fun, easy, and most importantly REWARDING enough that no one WANTS to be 'solo'...everyone has a TEAM, everyone has a home in Faction Warfare. Crazy talk?