99 replies to this topic

[Foxwalker]

Check Metamechs.com, you can see that both IS and Clan occupy top tiers. As several have said, you need to try both sides.
I checked and you have been playing since 2012. That is a long time to not check out all the tech available.

There are only a few mechs of either side that appear to shine to the level of OP. I have found that almost any mech IS or Clan can seem OP when you face off against a really top pilot. Check games I have seen with Locusts and Urbanmechs doing 500-1000 damage and 2-5 kills.

No, I don't really see any mech that is really OP, just players that can master the necessary play style of a given mechs abilities.

[DrxAbstract]

Pilots OP, nerf pilots.

[Scout Derek]

DrxAbstract, on 05 June 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Pilots OP, nerf pilots.

Alright let's get the bill passed.

*Gets to the two houses, only one approves*

... ;-;

[Lykaon]

Queen of England, on 05 June 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

IS has better quirks, lower laser duration, better heat efficiency, while clans have higher damage and better range, basically.

Clan XL engines! This is probably the biggest edge the clan mechs have. Having an XL that survives a side torso destruction is huge with light and medium mechs less so with assaults and heavys but still an edge.

[Ace Selin]

[Malachy Karrde]

xWiredx, on 05 June 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Who in their right mind would take a Hellbringer over a Black Knight, Grasshopper, or Warhammer? Those three IS mechs are vastly superior. I'd also take a Griffin or even a Blackjack over a Hunchback IIC.

I think when it comes down to the later stages, we're going to see a lot of IS meta+quirk abuse mechs. Right now it's probably more mixed because of volume of teams.

warhammer isn't that good. It's an average 70 tonner, doesn't stand up very well without suport. I'd take a hell bringer or ebj over warhammer any day. (I have all 3 of those mechs)

[Revis Volek]

BigJim, on 05 June 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Um... Both these posts are pretty rude tbh, particularly you Derek - normally you're fairly level headed but you've both just dived in here without reading or trying to figure out the English; The dude asked a perfectly legit question... "How are clan mechs not OP?".
Why not give the straight answer? He hasn't said "Clan mechs are OP". He asked, how are they not, given the larger amount of hardpoints and Alpha damage numbers?

There is an answer to the above question, so why not politely furnish the OP with it?

I said nothing rude in my post, you are putting your own inflection on a single question. I did nothing more then ask the OP a questions, the same thing he did.

Maybe put less feels into discussions.

Edited by Revis Volek, 05 June 2016 - 08:24 PM.

[Keonyn]

Balance was okay, until the Kodiak showed up. That mech is in serious need of some adjusting, or other assaults will need buffing to bring them up.

[Moldur]

Lykaon, on 05 June 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Clan XL engines! This is probably the biggest edge the clan mechs have. Having an XL that survives a side torso destruction is huge with light and medium mechs less so with assaults and heavys but still an edge.

I would rather all tech be available to everyone. this is one of the big things that IS proponents will hang over clanner's heads to justify everything, even if the punishment doesn't fit the crime, so to speak.

It is such a stupid little piece that keeps us from achieving balance, in my opinion. Lore is dead, and we stomp on its body every single day. If we wanted to preserve lore, Clans would be super OP. Instead we have "same-tier" balance, (but not really because of stuff that is strictly better, like Clan XLs.)

So, lore is dead. Why do we pick and choose where we absolutely cannot break lore? What do we achieve? We keep lore 95% dead instead of 96% dead? People are sitting at the bedside of a corpse, and it's stinking up the entire hospital for the rest of us.

[Xetelian]

Look at the tiers on Metamechs.com

Quote

Basic description of the Tiers:

Tier 1: Reliably awesome mechs
Tier 2: Unreliably awesome, or reliably good mechs
Tier 3: Situational and/or mediocre mechs
Tier 4: Extremely situational or sub-par mechs
Tier 5: The bad ones


Kodiak Patch (19-May-2016)
Tier 1
High: Kodiak KDK-3 | Kodiak KDK-2 | Banshee BNC-3M | Battlemaster BLR-2C | Black Knight BL-6-KNT | Black Knight BL-7-KNT-L | Battlemaster BLR-1G | Blackjack BJ-1X | Blackjack BJ-3 | Quickdraw QKD-5K | Timber Wolf TBR-A/C/D | Timber Wolf TBR-PRIME | Timber Wolf TBR-S

Low: Battlemaster BLR-3S | Grasshopper GHR-5H | Grasshopper GHR-5P | Jenner Oxide | Kodiak KDK-4 | Stalker STK-4N | Arctic Cheetah ACH-PRIME/A/B/C | Mauler MAL-MX90 | Quickdraw QKD-4G | Thunderbolt TDR-9SE | Kodiak KDK-5 | Kodiak KDK-1

As you can see a veritable mix of Innersphere and Clan make up the top 25 mechs

This isn't an absolute truth but you can use this meta tier list as a basis for what to buy if you want to run around out gunning everyone in lower tiered mechs so it counts for something.


Clan has lighter weapons
Clan everything takes up less slots
Clan cXL survives the fight when they lose a side torso

So why aren't all the top 10 or more just clan mechs?

The quirks and loadouts available to a few mechs are just really powerful
Clan lasers are hotter and have a longer duration, thus Innersphere mechs that can utilize a lot of shorter duration, lower heat lasers can keep up in terms of firepower and DPS, weapon quirks also help in these cases too

Clan Autocannons burst fire, Innersphere shoots 1 round at full damage so they are heavier and take up more slots but superior in doing their damage to one component

KDK-3

MAL-MX90

10 tons difference in favor of the Kodiak but check out the loadouts. One is 7 DPS and 43% heat efficient while the other is 20 less alpha strike but 8 dps and 57% heat efficiency

Clan mech has a higher alpha strike but it doesn't put all the damage into one location while the Innersphere mech puts 25 Pin Point Front Loaded Damage into what they are aiming at and do it with more heat efficiency so the KDK can alpha a huge load but you can twist to counter that alpha and spread the damage across your entire front while that MAL will pulverize one component at a time. This is why these two are BOTH top tier assaults.


LRMs are different as well, clan LRMs are lighter and take up less slots but they stream fire giving the enemy time to twist away and if they brought AMS more missiles will be destroyed by the AMS compared to the bunched up LRMs of the Innersphere.


The only thing Clan has that Innersphere doesn't is Streak 4s and 6s but Streak missiles are so widely spread that they can't really hurt anything that is heavier than 35 tons to any great degree.

[no one]

Xetelian, on 05 June 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

KDK-3

MAL-MX90

10 tons difference in favor of the Kodiak but check out the loadouts. One is 7 DPS and 43% heat efficient while the other is 20 less alpha strike but 8 dps and 57% heat efficiency

Why would you build a Kodiak to create a fault and then point out that fault? It's sustained DPS is only lower because of the medium lasers. Take those off and you have the Kodiak out-damaging the mauler at better heat efficiency. Or better yet let's remove the ClanXL advantage, drop the Kodiak to that Mauler's speed, give it a pure set of CuAC/5s and equivalent ammo. . .

KDK-3
Seems a lot closer to the Mauler! 104% heat efficiency with just the ac/5s, better heat efficiency with the backup weapons. Of course, given the Kodiak's hitboxes and weapon mounts there's no reason to not do the clan XL and push those to CuAC/10s

KDK-3

Or if you want to go nutty and toss out the shoulder-peek advantage you can make the Kodi into a death-star.

KDK-3


Again, I'm not calling for Kodi Nerfs, but at least use comparisons that make sense.

Edited by no one, 06 June 2016 - 12:26 AM.

[BigJim]

Scout Derek, on 05 June 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

I did say it was rude did I not? I say it so because it makes me upset. look at the content within his post:



When you're asking what counters a clan mech for being OP and say crazy amount of hard points and alpha damage, and not driving one, it makes you think:

Why hasn't he tried one out, hell, just ONE match in them? you know? And there's one literally in mechlab that he can go test drive for free.

That's why it's rude, it's because he has the time to make a post about it, yet it takes about the same time to get into a match and see what disadvantages it has that prevents it from being OP.

Least I explained, because I had a reason to be rude.

In short, being rude because OP took time to make a post rather than trying out the mechs that may or may not be " OP".

oh, and I did explain below the text you quoted from me.

But Clan mechs do (seemingly) have crazy hardpoints, and they do have (often) larger alphas than IS mechs do. That's just the numbers when you initially look at them.
So it's not a weird question for the OP to ask, since on paper, Clan mechs do look to have significant advantages over IS mechs.
Hell, I've been playing since before the founders injection came in, and have played Clan mechs since day one, and I'm still open to argument on the issue, so god knows how a newer player would be able to make a decisive judgement, even if he does try them out for a match or two...

I can think of good reasons to ask the question on here rather than just blindly go into a match with a trial mech, not least of all, because we (experienced) players ought to have a more encompassing knowledge of the game, rather than that gained just by looking at the numbers.
We've all got hundreds or even thousands of matches' worth of experience in these mechs, and can, if we choose to, give insight that no player can gain in just a few matches dipping his toe in the waters.

That's why (if it were me who wanted to know) I'd ask the question on here. Sure, if it were me, I'd try the mechs in person too so I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but still, making a quick, 3 or 4 line post asking people to pass on their experience is hardly evidence of someone who is too lazy or can't be bothered to try things out for himself - it's just that; Asking people for the benefit of their experience - we don't need to read anything into it that isn't there.

Edited by BigJim, 06 June 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[Nyte Kitsune]

How are clan mechs not OP?.. Silly question, Of course they are, they're supposed to be.. But STOP asking for them to be quirked. They don't need quirks, just smarter pilots.

For those that think they need the quirks, stop piloting Clan mechs like morons and you'll do better. I see far too many Clan mechs set up like IS mechs.. YOU'RE NOT IN IS MECHS. Boating lasers on IS mechs works, because they carry fewer weapons thus less heat, same with AC's.. Boating lots of lasers or ac's on a clan mech because you can load more of them makes you an idiot (Minus stock configs like the Nova which come that way). Clan mechs generate far more heat when boating for brawling which is why they die so easily, then you come here and whine that Clan mechs suck, they don't suck, they just aren't used properly. Clan mechs should take advantage of mixed weapon loadouts (Short AND long range weapons) and alternate between the 2. Not firing them all at once thinking you're Rambo.

Trust me, I kill clan mechs in a IS med (BJ-A, BJ-3), quite easy too as usually my targets are clan mechs boating short range weapons, which means yes, they have a lot of short ranged weapons, but if you can't get into range with them you're an assault class paperweight, if those pilots had mixed loadouts I likely would regularly get killed by them, instead of killing them, but by all means, keep doing it, I like shooting fish in barrel.

Edited by Nyte Kitsune, 06 June 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[visionGT4]

Id like to propose a trade, clans can have whatever you want from IS (like ANYTHING and ALL of it) in exchange for IS receiving access to clan-xl.

singleshot AC's, non streaming LRM's, IS LPL ghost heat, maulers, oxides, bk's - take it all

[Appogee]

My top 5 performing Mechs are all Clan Mechs, according to my stats.

(I have Elited or Mastered 209 Mechs, both Clan and IS.)

I recognise the above will make zero difference to those who persist in wanting Clan Mechs to be buffed.

[Appogee]

Xetelian, on 05 June 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

Look at the tiers on Metamechs.com As you can see a The only thing Clan has that Innersphere doesn't is Streak 4s and 6s but Streak missiles are so widely spread that they can't really hurt anything that is heavier than 35 tons to any great degree.

I kept coming across 4 Streak+SRM Crows in Scouting a few nights ago. Nothing we could come up with was enough to win a Scouting match against them.

We tried Oxides, SPL and AC20 Hunchbacks, Cent-AHs, and splat Griffins in various combinations. But the best we ever achieved was a 2-4 loss... even when all 4 of us took 55 tonners.

It was quite disappointing. I thought splat Griffins would have been superior.

[Andi Nagasia]

Appogee, on 08 June 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

I kept coming across 4 Streak+SRM Crows in Scouting a few nights ago. Nothing we could come up with was enough to win a Scouting match against them.

We tried Oxides, SPL and AC20 Hunchbacks, Cent-AHs, and splat Griffins in various combinations. But the best we ever achieved was a 2-4 loss... even when all 4 of us took 55 tonners.

It was quite disappointing. I thought splat Griffins would have been superior.

um staying out side 400m would be the trick?

[Rhaythe]

Revis Volek, on 05 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

How can you say something is OP when you have never even drove it yourself?

Dude. People say that about light mechs 24/7.

[Andi Nagasia]

Appogee, on 08 June 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

My top 5 performing Mechs are all Clan Mechs, according to my stats.

(I have Elited or Mastered 209 Mechs, both Clan and IS.)

I recognise the above will make zero difference to those who persist in wanting Clan Mechs to be buffed.

most dont care about Clan over preformers, SCR/TBR but to say all other mechs have to stay crap isnt fair,
wheres the love for the MLX, IFR, SMN, MDD, GAR, WHK? or are those fine as they are just because Clan™

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 08 June 2016 - 05:12 AM.

[Appogee]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 June 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

um staying out side 400m would be the trick?

So you reckon you can kill four enemy Mechs that move at 105 kph without them ever getting within 400m of you?

Please, post the video of yourself doing that, I would like to learn from you.

Edited by Appogee, 08 June 2016 - 05:18 AM.