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Things That Would Make Faction Play Better


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#21 Captain Mittens

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:09 PM

View PostRattazustra, on 06 June 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

NPCs and background noise. Make the maps feel alive somehow, but most importantly make me feel BIG! Why even bother coding a huge mech game when everything is pretty much huge mech sized, thus rendering the mechs nothing but over armoured, arthritic knights with ineffective weapons? When I stomp through a city I want to see tiny infantry fighting beneath my feet. I want tiny tanks making puny attempts to stop me. When I am on a battlefield, I want to FEEL it. I want fighter jets and helicopters criss-crossing the skies.
The important thing about this is: All of this doesn't even have to affect me directly. It would be cool if it did, but it is not the most important part of it. It just needs to be there and provide immersion. The same goes for random artillery strikes that pound the earth, scar the ground and make it shake, while dirt and rocks rain from the skies.


Once upon a time heroic knights produced a legendary product called Mechwarrior: Living Legends. Literally the best Mechwarrior experience I've ever had. If it had population, I would still be playing that instead of this.

#22 Baulven

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:30 AM

Actually I should just dream big. What would really help faction warfare is if they had a persistent map for 48v48 where you can drop only from mechs you own. Limited to a total of four reinforcements. Roll scouting, satellite acquisition, and objective warfare into the mix. This would make the game a while lot more immersive (should we capture the two orbital guns, destroy their field artillery or gain satellite resources) but is probably way out of the scope for what PGI will ever do. He'll personally I would love to fly aerotech fighters all the time instead of mech combat even if it is viewed as less by the clans.

#23 D V Devnull

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:43 AM

View PostCaptain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time heroic knights produced a legendary product called Mechwarrior: Living Legends. Literally the best Mechwarrior experience I've ever had. If it had population, I would still be playing that instead of this.

If only Micro$haft and the DRM around Crysis hadn't blown away many people who might have joined you there, as well as blown away the development team building that game. I might have eventually enjoyed playing, after having seen a few vids on YouTube myself. But with THAT nasty DRM? No way I could approach it. -_-

~D. V. "If only they could have released the prerequisite without the DRM..." Devnull

#24 Karl the Plumber

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:17 AM

View PostKael Posavatz, on 07 June 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

Population: Have enough people playing FW to make it worth playing. On a side note, I haven't really seen any advertising for this game since PGI split with IGP. Maybe others have, but me? Not so much


We can't do anything without this happening first.

#25 nimdabew

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 08:54 PM

I would love to have tiny infantry running around shooting single SRM tubes at me. It would give me a reason to take small pulse lasers in singles and take a ton and a half to take a pair of machine guns. This would be AWESOME.

#26 MountainRat

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:46 AM

All I would like to see is faster times to get games!

#27 D V Devnull

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:46 AM

View PostMountainRat, on 12 June 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

All I would like to see is faster times to get games!

If PGI hadn't messed up the Faction Warfare Contract System, you might have been seeing that now. :(

~D. V. "Instead, here we are..." Devnull

#28 Commander A9

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 01:37 PM

The planets should add some benefit to each faction; more C-Bills at least per planet your faction holds and even your team holds.

That doesn't necessarily mean the big teams will reap the benefit; victory goes to the team that drops and wins the most.

It'd be like Tukayyid's intra-team competition.

#29 Aylward

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:08 PM

reduce wait times to 5 mins, eliminate Ghost hold drops for zero benefit, and add another screen on the voting mechanic to select from a list of possible planet targets on the front youre voting for.. Giving your faction some sense of direction in their planning. Watch the queues fill back up like your plate at IHOP all you can eat pancakes day..

#30 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:47 PM

I hate to suggest this, but:

Limit group size to 8 and put some pressure/onus on the units that are active in FP to give guidance to the smaller groups/solos. It also helps the wait times for the smaller groups by amalgamating them into the larger ones, while limiting (a little) the OP of large coordinated groups.

(I'm leaving myself open to SOOOOOOO much hate mail here)

#31 Contrex

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 03:33 AM

I added some suggestions here:

http://mwomercs.com/...-play-workover/

#32 BSK

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 05:43 AM

View PostxX PUG Xx, on 12 June 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Limit group size to 8 and put some pressure/onus on the units that are active in FP to give guidance to the smaller groups/solos.

Coming from someone who left a big competetive unit in FP to start a casual unit at the size of 8 people.
For the first time ever I consider to write a whole posting just in smileys, alternating between facepalm and rolleyes.

Could you please elaborate how I could provide quidance to new players in scouting matches when the 2 Inner Sphere trial medium mechs are completely inadequate? There is the Vindicator with 2 PPC and a minimum range of 90 meters as well as the Trebuchet with 2 LRM15 and a minimum range of 180 meters, for a match type whose best snapshots could allow handshakes with opened cockpit windows. And how should it work when people are immune and ignorant to any advice, assistance, counselling, mentoring or just plain help.








































































Type of quidance attempted Yes No
Do people listen to me when I tell them to play different trial mechs? X
Do people listen to me when I tell them to play different match modes? X
Do people group up with me when I communicate with them? X
Do people focus legs when I tell them to increase our chances to win? X
Do people join us on a public teamspeak to improve they performance? X
Do people accept my friend request when I try to offer them help? X


Let me elaborate on the last point in this rhetorical survey. My unit was made to help Founders get back into the game. Although pilots with a founder tag were exptected to perform above average because of longtime experience in pug matches, many without a faction or a unit could only achieve below average results. They had taken a break during the shaky beta phase and now returned to the game they once supported to come into existence. But their reentry was complicated without any guidance, without tutorials, without an up-to-date wiki and without useful maps for solo training. That's what my unit then wanted to provide. Some very smart people did not like our exclusivness and called us snobbish, arrogant or even fashist, for picking pilots performing below average and teaching them to become average performers. Maybe because we managed to perform above average and attracted many good pilots due to the fact that we invited anyone to our public teamspeak channel. Any Founder in a pug match without a faction and a unit would receive a friend request, more than 1200 lonewolf Founders. Not even half of them accepted them. Sometimes they would accept them 1 month later because the always blinking social tab was ignored. Ahead of a town hall then I asked for a one-time info bubble introducing the social tab and fixing it. But unexpectedly they screwed it up and the bubble was an all-timer only after you clicked on the social tab. Of those 500 Founders who accepted my friend request each one was sent the following lines:
Hello there, how are you doing?
I saw you are a Founder without a faction and a unit, are you returning to the game?
If you need help or have any questions about new stuff, please let me know!
The most frequent answer of those who did see the message would incomprehensibly inform me they weren't looking for a unit. Many told me they don't need help, a few told me they play frequently and the rest told me they play not frequently enough. Or they are loyalists on the oceanic server in the smallest faction. And yet sometimes I would see their postings here in the forum about what they think is wrong about this game. Occasionally I invited them to pug drops, introduced them to teamspeak, proposed reasonable loadouts, asked them if they were interested in faction play. You as well, xX PUG Xx. You never dropped with us though, never joined us in our teamspeak channel when we were in the same drop of the same faction and ignored any attempt to get connected. When you announced you were looking for a unit, I offered you to join us or find an appropiate unit for you. But you were not interested and joined a big competetive unit. My reward for my services was that you deleted me from your friend list.
Meanwhile I helped pilots who had 6 tons of ammo for 1 AMS, who stopped moving during a 1v1 training duel to roll a smoke and would disrupt battle-comms with complaints about shots in the back when entering a base on Grim Portico. But after a while they managed to make 1.000 damage consistently in faction play, celebrating 1.500 or even 2.000 damage. We had a lot of fun and have won many matches. The number of members rose up to 240 people and in April more than 180 of these were active. Even though some have little children and have to drop out frequently, or come home from shift-work, or return from a deployment, from feeding their cattle, taking care of sick relatives and a generally regular life, we were still able to keep our members updated and even this out to achieve successful matches.
Then the big patch for faction phase 3 came. Bug after bug would make the game unplayable. There was not one game mode working without hassle, disconnects, interruptions, resets and a player base that would complain everything they did not care to understand. We picked a Ghost Bear contract to play the Kodiak on its release, and on none of our attacks on a Rasalhague planet we would face Rasalhague loyalist units. We would face -MS- playing for Davion and 228 playing for Marik. Even though they had a common border, these units only wanted to do one thing in faction play, farm us.
After all the changes to attack corridors and contracts adjusted to faction population, still all IS units are able to defend against all Clan attacks, is beyond my understanding. It does not encourage the loyalists and is one of the reason why Steiner stopped defending their planets against Jade Falcons when during their counter attacks they were outnumbered by all 4 Clan factions.
After all the changes to group weights in quick play and we still have a solo queue is also beyond there. If you drop with more than 4 people you increase the chance to drop against 6 Kodiak/King Crab and lose through sheer brute force.
Why don't we encourage people to drop in groups or join units? Instead we give them an excuse, it's all the fault of other people being social. And that's why according to the lonewolf-community the accumulation of big units had to be stopped. Instead of balancing with more big units, the active ones had to be destroyed. In quick play and in faction play. And in the championship.
Now if we find someone who wants to join our unit but has an active contract, he now has to be a deserter for 7 days instead of 3. During these 7 days they either lose interest or join a loyalist unit from that faction, even though we are willing to pay the amount of 2 mech modules or 12 million Posted Image for teaching them what we know. Since they are not in my unit I cannot tell if they are really online because the client doesn't update the friend list for people who go offline. Oh wait, same goes for the unit list. Now that none of the big units can't even field a 12 man on the weekends when there is no event, you tell me that I shouldn't even have the liberty to do so and only bring 8, because that would make all those people who ignore my attempts to help them, then approve my then non-voluntary guidance. Apparently I don't play this game for me, I play it for everyone else who doesn't ask for help before he starts playing the more demanding game modes.

Recently I saw you xX PUG Xx on the public ComStar teamspeak hub with a new unit tag in an open dropship. And still I offered you help how to establish a channel for your new unit. But you were not interested again, you had just started a casual unit with 8 people and were waiting for the setup of your own private teamspeak server. There is no better proof of your connectivity to the MechWarrior community and your helpfulness than a reclusive private teamspeak server, right?

I'm tired.

Just answer me one question please, why do you expect me to send you hate mail and not allow me to elaborate all circumstances that led to your conclusions on how to improve faction play?


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#33 12oz Jesus

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:45 AM

Rattazustra,

Some good ideas. I agree with about 87% of this, thanks for taking the time and excellent presentation. (No idea why quote function wouldn't work.)

------------------------------------------

Also, shameless re-post from other thread. We should consolidate these to threads, but that won't happen.

"A consolidation of the factions is passed due. We all like our factions, but the diminishing playerbase can't support it and will therefore only exacerbate the problem, leading to additional loss of players as matches get harder to find (and wait times increase). Team play is by far the best MWO has to offer (IMO) and faction play is far more interesting/strategic/rewarding than 1-off quickplay matches.

I would suggest THREE TOTAL FACTIONS. That will retain the ability to have IS vs IS matches as well as IS vs Clan. If clans want to fight clans, then perhaps 4 factions could work. Lore it anyway you want, but GAMEPLAY TAKES PRECEDENCE.

------------------------------------------------

Also, the OP has a very valid point. I do think PGI play their own project and are trying to meet the needs of the community. However, I think there is much room for improvement - both in implementation and in communication.

Many love giant robot battles, wise tweaks and a bit more adverting on Steam will keep the game going."

Edited by 12oz Jesus, 14 June 2016 - 07:53 AM.


#34 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 09:12 AM

View PostBSK, on 14 June 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:


Opinionated opinions from your own perspective, as usual



LOL, I guess that's being "called out". I could explain and refute what you have said about me but the simple fact is that the players that actually know me, know what is going on and I don't feel like explaining or defending myself to you. I'm tired too.

Now while I agree that in Scout missions the IS choice of Trials is terrible, the fact that I mentioned limiting group sizes to 8 precludes scouting missions (obviously taking my reply to the "Ban trial mechs from FP" thread). I have and will state that the Trial 'Mechs for both tech types are perfectly usable, in the Invasion mode and in the hands of an experienced pilot. The problem with the Trials is not the 'Mech it is the lack of experience/skill of the pilot allowed to use them.

As for the OP and my response, having thought it through it probably wouldn't help as much as I would like.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 14 June 2016 - 09:15 AM.


#35 DevlinCognito

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 12:03 PM

What would make Faction Play better?

Give people a reason to play this mode. The MC is a start, but its obviously just something that has been tacked on quickly with little too no thought. This is a game that is rich in depth and lore, use it! I have absolutely no doubt if PGI made even the simplest request they would be inundated with lore heads willing to help them out.

Maps, dear god more maps! It doesn't matter if some are unbalanced initially, start churning those maps out. 6 maps does not a game mode make.

Give people a reason to be Loyalists whilst pushing them to spread the population equally. If this is end game content, make it pay like end game content. Give a rank 20 loyalist the opportunity to take 4 mechs of their own tech base or 3 of their own and one from the other tech base to simulate the prestige of being the highest rank possible. Hell, if they hit rank 40 they can take 2/2. Bring out specific chassis variants that can only be driven by Loyalists once they reach a certain rank.

More Game modes. Split the planets into 6 chances to take the orbital gun, then 6 skirmishes on regular maps then 3 Assaults.

... gah! ultimately it doesn't matter how many ideas we post on here, PGI have shown they have little too no interest on reading them or having any interaction with their community, 'Minimum viable product' seems more and more believable. Enjoy what we have whilst you can. HBS Battletech may well be that final nail for this game.

View PostBSK, on 14 June 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

-snip-


BSK, you'd get a better response if you weren't such a bell end to people who have politely turned you down.

#36 BSK

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 02:09 PM

View PostxX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

I'm tired too.

You are not tired. Why would you be? From starting an 8 man unit and then going to the forum saying all faction play drops should be capped at 8 man?

View PostDevlinCognito, on 14 June 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

BSK, you'd get a better response if you weren't such a bell end to people who have politely turned you down.

You know, not every post is a personal attack, like when you freak out when someone says something about the activity of Davion units. Not to be nitpicking, but turning someone politely down is something completely different. And I don't care at all about unit-hoppers not in my unit. It's just that he implied it would be my fault people had not enough guidance, while in fact I voluntarily offer more than enough of requested guidance. And as I described he has shown repeatedly that he doesn't appreciate any guidance at all, so what makes him think other pilots would do so? They don't, they have the same attitude like him, they know it all, no matter their level of knowledge. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Now let's get back to the topic to improve faction play, like turning off faction-collective defense matches. Maybe just try it in a crazy weekend event ..

#37 DevlinCognito

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 03:19 PM

View PostBSK, on 14 June 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:


-snippity snip-



Thankyou for making my point though.

#38 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 03:36 PM

OK let's do this.

1. At what point did I ASK for your "guidance?
2. What gives you the belief that you are in anyway qualified to provide that "guidance"?
3. What exactly do you know about me, my personal circumstances, in-game ability, friends list, experience and conduct in the units I have been in?

Not a personal attack? Not only have you named me in your previous post you have linked my profile page numerous times.

I HAVE joined you in your TS channels during drops on around half a dozen different occasions, the fact I chose not to join your unit and removed you from my friends list may tell everyone else about my experience. The "headline" you like to advertise is that of teamwork and friendly "guidance" but i'm afraid that was not my experience of your attitude on comm's, pretty fast to blame the "pugs" when things go sideways in a drop.

As for unit hopping, again you have NO idea what you are talking about and HAVE to stick your oar in.

So lets see, in 4 years I have been part of 4 units all of which I have left on good terms and caused zero intentional hassle for. Hell I sent good pilots towards two of them, knowing that they would probably have good experiences there. I have friends and (at the least) contacts in virtually every faction and many well known units in the game. The players that KNOW me, will hopefully recognise one thing, I play to have fun; sometimes I play hard but I will almost always show respect before, during and after a match.

As for the IDI, I was persuaded by a couple of longtime FRIENDS to stay with the game (I was ready to walk away and uninstall) and have some fun. Within a couple of days a few more friends had joined in and another half dozen are weighing their options. It's possible that if I asked, a few others would join in but I have never been big-headed or confident enough to believe I have the right to influence or hold sway over my friends, I have too much respect for their free will and ability to choose their own path. I was happily surprised by those that jumped in already, it gave me a lift when I needed it.

I am too old to put up with primadonnas and opionated BS, the fact I was willing to laugh off your first post was obviously lost on you and, as per usual, felt that you had to get the last word in.

To the OP, apologies for derailing your thread but some things boil my blood.

My hope is that future additions, such as the reworked assault mode, will see benefits fliter through to FP. In the meantime simply merging the factions to IS and Clan or perhaps the "alliances" proposed in various other threads, this would at least alleviate the problem with wait times.

There still needs to be an improvement on the population balance mechanic, I hate to suggest it but there needs rlto be a hard lock implemented by PGI based on ACTIVE FP players. The hope would be to stop heavy swings in active population and at the least providing a level playing field based on numbers. Skill cannot be balanced by any game mechanic beyond that which the player chooses to impose on themself, a top pilot bringing suboptimal builds for instance.

So really for a quick fix, condense the population and provide some more features. Longer term, more maps and more in-depth features.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 14 June 2016 - 04:21 PM.


#39 WANTED

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 04:01 PM

PGI needs to focus on what identity this game is going to have. Started out as Quick Drop Multiplayer...ok great. Then they jumped over to CW..no wait..FW. Now they added in esports/tourney game mode. They have 3 different identities and none are considered truly finished. FW was what I thought Russ and others were focused but they seem to have lost that path and gone the esports side but throw a bone here and there to FW.

Simple...pick a game identity and focus there.

#40 Jep Jorgensson

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 04:19 PM

A good place to start (aside from turning the game over to someone that will actually do it justice) would be for the Clans and IS to have a little "time out" from each other. Massively lopsided player populations, over-quirked IS mechs, nerfed Clan mechs, and war deciding merc units aside, the two sides never really got to do any FW between just themselves. It has always been Clan vs IS and that needs to change. So, let the IS do their thing in the IS while the Clans start over from our homeworlds. A couple months of IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan only while the other issues are hammered out should do everyone some good.

P.S. Feel free to restrict the merc units to IS only.

What I would really like to see though, is an expansive battletech universe where we can freely move around on worlds like other mmo's and attack or defend at certain points on the map instead of dropping into the same old random maps that we have all dropped on countless times. Maybe start from our factions homeworlds with individual units (or joint units) striking out and claiming surrounding planets of their choice from npc defenders of varying strength and numbers with the planets themselves having different values based on the facilities that can built, improved, damaged or even destroyed along with various resources that could be sold or traded. Some infantry (including elementals), tanks, and both air and spacecraft would also be nice. But I am really starting to get ahead of myself now. I know all that is pretty much just a pipe dream at this point in time, especially with these people owning and controlling it all, but it is still a nice dream to have. Anyway, that is what I think.





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