503 replies to this topic

[DarthHias]

Yes watched the Devstream last week, because due to the tournament it was at a perfect time for us Europeans (Six pm here in Germany). Tina was answering questions and chatting with everyone posting in chat (Almost all Germans )

[Dudeman3k]

CK16, on 06 June 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

Hardly....I realize them stopping pumping out mechs stops content....So live with the fact they can not make money with out mechs, atleast not effectively! Don't throw this **** of they need to focus on other things when how can they afford to dive into new content that will not directly bring them money. Accept mechs are thier main source of income....stopping them, stops game development, kills game.....

Age of Empires online's major debacle #1: content.

Like AoEo, MWO survives off of mech packs.... but AoEo realized too late, that content wasn't their money maker in reality, the player base was.

if the dev team makes 30k a year (im low balling this) and there is 6 on the team: 6*30k =180k
Now you have concept artists doing the initial work, lets say they have 3: 3*30k = 90k
Now we add the total salaries per year: 270k per year / by 2 (it takes about 6 months to relase it vs one year) = $135k to relase a new mech.

now to the sell. lets take the active player base as paying customers (not all are, Im not, but to be generous)... that means at $20 a stater pack (135k / 20) they would need to sell 9k units to break even with NO profits, no paychecks to anyone else, and not covering the other overhead costs. Considering the Steam player base is shrinking still (at 2000 peak) lets assume only half of them invest in it. thats 1k sold... now we target the remaining dedicated users (forum # is a good one to go off of as we seem to be the only ones using it anymore) thats another 2k when involving the "world" so thats 3k sold...... 3k.....

yes, content is the major money maker, but as you can see, it can't even cover production cost, let alone overhead... AoEo learned this the hard way assuming new content will get old players back.... but it didnt... it kept retention up from those still around. What brought the thousands back was community interaction and out-reach... but it was too late at that point.

so yes, mech packs = money, but it's still not enough.

[1453 R]

stun, on 06 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Stopped reading here. If you think this is all unfounded, you are seriously confused and need to get a grip on the reality of actions and consequences.

Please... put the crack pipe down, open up a dictionary and look up the word accountability.

All of it? No.

But let's be realistic here, Stun - there are better ways to get across one's displeasure or dissatisfaction with the current state of the game than the vitriolic, curse-laden, hateful ranting so often employed by the browbeating savages that frequent this wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Again - would you want to talk to howling hate-zerkers who're clearly not going to listen to a single word you say because they have decided they're dead-set on Hating PGI Forever? Piranha needs to communicate better, yes - but a part of that is in fact on the playerbase for A.) being howling hatezerkers, or B.) allowing the howling hatezerkers to say whatever they want.

It's why I figure they should honestly take a harder stance on people who're nothing but hatemongers. No, don't censor anyone/everyone who has a negative opinion to share, but if all you do, all the time, is spew venom and encourage others to spew venom, without anything resembling proper feedback or remotely constructive criticism, then you need to...wait for it...

Shut. Up.

Because you're part of the problem, not a victim.

[TKSax]

1453 R, on 06 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

It's why I figure they should honestly take a harder stance on people who're nothing but hatemongers. No, don't censor anyone/everyone who has a negative opinion to share, but if all you do, all the time, is spew venom and encourage others to spew venom, without anything resembling proper feedback or remotely constructive criticism, then you need to...wait for it...

The forums are exactly what PGI let them become. They let people go unchecked on both sides for far to long., people who were irrational with there criticism and irrational with the Defense by shouting down people who have valid reasonable criticisms. PGI let this place become the festering pit is because of their inaction. PGI's inability to both police and interact with people on the forums is why this place as it is.
Do the people here bear some responsibility, sure, but the fact that PGI did not police the forums adequa;;y for a long time and far to long let people act like idiots also falls on them. You let people operate outside the rules to long... and they become the norm and that is what PGI did.

So in the end I generally do not have much sympathy for them because in all this time, they still do not understand how to interact with the community. (Weather that is Enforce Rules, handle gameplay issues or announcements.)

Edited by TKSax, 06 June 2016 - 12:24 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Dudeman3k, on 05 June 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

I play Overwatch a lot now a days for a few good reasons (other than its "new and shiny")
-The game is legitimately competitive. No snow-Ball effect, unique, and (for a recent release) well balanced.

I honestly don’t care too much about competitiveness. I mean, the only reason why I play MWO at all is because it’s the only giant stompy robot game around at the moment. I assure you, if there was the option to completely and totally ignore any and all aspects of PvP, I would do so in a heartbeat.
With regard to the snow-ball effect that exists, this is ONLY a thing because there are no respawns in this game. In 12v12, the moment you lose someone (whether they’re killed or they DC), your entire team is at a disadvantage.

Dudeman3k, on 05 June 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

-It has Lore... lore that they create from scratch! MWO is a BT front... all the lore is already here, but MWO does nothing to capitalize with it... none.... that hurts immersion. Think war thunder. They (WT) layout the entire history of the bird you're piloting, the pivotal role it's played in war, the construction, and it's makes you say "F$%K yeah im piloting this! it's a war hero!"..... MWO throws out a new robot and you say "ah, I guess it looks cool." or "does it have high mount points??"

This is partially because PGI doesn’t have any writers on their team. Granted, I understand why they didn’t do so given the way things developed and all that rot…but to be clear, understanding does not mean acceptance. There should be a damn good reason someone’s shelling out any amount of money for this stuff that’s above and beyond “this is a community/fandom favorite” or something like that.
Regarding the mount points, being a factor, this is strictly because of the meta-crowd and the painfully fast TTK the game has. High mount-points mean that you can shoot over/around scenery (hill hump) better, which is the current flavor of the game because the meta is ERLL, PPC and Gauss all day all the time.

Dudeman3k, on 05 June 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

You'd be surprised how non-twitch FPS Overwatch is. It's not CS:S or CoD. It's surprisingly fluid and well thought out (deep). It doesn't have the multiple hard points like big stompy robots, but if youre looking for an incredible team oriented game, Overwatch is it.

Not going to lie… I don’t care. I have never, EVER liked FPS games. Ever. I tried to like Team Fortress 2 because some friends played it. Same thing for Borderlands 2 and Left 4 Dead. The closest thing I came to liking an FPS was Portal and Portal 2…and I think that’s entirely because both games were over before I could be reminded *WHY* I hate FPS games so much.

With regards to team-oriented games, I couldn’t care less about them. I actually prefer to play by myself, with the only interaction with other players is in a PvE environment like what you would find in Guild Wars 2. Seriously, if I had my way, I would play through this game and never once talk/chat/type to a single person here. It’s not that I don’t like you all, it’s that I just don’t do that whole interaction thing.

[wanderer]

PGI policed things very thoroughly at one point.

That's where the whole "island" thing came from. Most of us remaining betavets just take anything PGI says with enough grains of salt to cause lethal hypertension otherwise. IMHO, MWO is a perfect example of how to waste tremendous amounts of potential while simultaneously displaying awesome levels of ignorance for your own franchise.

That it still has entertainment value is in spite of it's flaws, not because of them.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

wanderer, on 06 June 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

That it still has entertainment value is in spite of it's flaws, not because of them.

In short, yeah it's not the game we wanted but... it's really the only big stompy mech based shooter around at the moment and that kind of game play is always fun.

[RustyBolts]

Quote

I don't blame them when people come on their forums telling PGI they're stupid or yelling "What the hell you doing PGI."

For me, if someone was yelling at me to do my job right and calling me every name in the book that can be read of, yeah, I'm putting up the "shut up I don't care right now" wall.

they did that to the forums years ago when people were smashing PGI left and right.

Bishop, I know you care about the game, I know you as a veteran Forumwarrior who's made points, argue them, express opinion, and much more.

it'd be nice to have a tower of Babel, but there's a reason why there isn't.

And I wish I knew why.

If PGI was being honest with themselves, they could see that a lot of it is justified, not all, but a lot. They have caused a lot of self inflicted chest wounds. I defended PGI and bought mechpacks from Beta until 2015. That is when my patience and confidence ran out.

[Suko]

Decided to make it a separate post.

Edited by Suko, 06 June 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

I love the BT universe (as it reminds me of my childhood) and actually like playing this game but can't even be bothered to log in much anymore. Have dropped more money on this game since my Founders pledge than any other game (probably over $750 by now) and barely logged in to play my Kodiaks for a couple days. Still have over a year worth of premium time banked so I better get going on that before the servers shut down lol.

The game is stale and PGI doesn't seem to care so I'll be off playing Elite until they figure something out.

[Scout Derek]

TKSax, on 06 June 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

The forums are exactly what PGI let them become. They let people go unchecked on both sides for far to long., people who were irrational with there criticism and irrational with the Defense by shouting down people who have valid reasonable criticisms. PGI let this place become the festering pit is because of their inaction. PGI's inability to both police and interact with people on the forums is why this place as it is.
Do the people here bear some responsibility, sure, but the fact that PGI did not police the forums adequa;;y for a long time and far to long let people act like idiots also falls on them. You let people operate outside the rules to long... and they become the norm and that is what PGI did.

So in the end I generally do not have much sympathy for them because in all this time, they still do not understand how to interact with the community. (Weather that is Enforce Rules, handle gameplay issues or announcements.)

the forums became the way they are because people lacked self-control. common sense says to be civil and not act like it's a shouting arena here, but hey, it's the internet, you become anonymous, a unknown, and people will take advantage of such.

Should PGI try to take care of it? Yes.

Should they have to deal with Toxicity? No.

[Lyoto Machida]

Scout Derek, on 06 June 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

the forums became the way they are because people lacked self-control. common sense says to be civil and not act like it's a shouting arena here, but hey, it's the internet, you become anonymous, a unknown, and people will take advantage of such.

Should PGI try to take care of it? Yes.

Should they have to deal with Toxicity? No.

You get rid of police in real life and see what happens...being civil isn't required when you don't have to be.

[TKSax]

Scout Derek, on 06 June 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

the forums became the way they are because people lacked self-control. common sense says to be civil and not act like it's a shouting arena here, but hey, it's the internet, you become anonymous, a unknown, and people will take advantage of such.

Should PGI try to take care of it? Yes.

Should they have to deal with Toxicity? No.

Lyoto Machida, on 06 June 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

You get rid of police in real life and see what happens...being civil isn't required when you don't have to be.

Exactely this, People are going to push boundaries, hell people are going to get pissed off sometimes and blow off steam, but PGI let that go on far to long so it became the norm. Things are better now, I stopped participating in the forums a long time ago because both the people who supposed PGI blindly and shouted down criticism and those who were super toxic ruled the forums.

[stun]

1453 R, on 06 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

All of it? No.

But let's be realistic here, Stun - there are better ways to get across one's displeasure or dissatisfaction with the current state of the game than the vitriolic, curse-laden, hateful ranting so often employed by the browbeating savages that frequent this wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Again - would you want to talk to howling hate-zerkers who're clearly not going to listen to a single word you say because they have decided they're dead-set on Hating PGI Forever? Piranha needs to communicate better, yes - but a part of that is in fact on the playerbase for A.) being howling hatezerkers, or B.) allowing the howling hatezerkers to say whatever they want.

It's why I figure they should honestly take a harder stance on people who're nothing but hatemongers. No, don't censor anyone/everyone who has a negative opinion to share, but if all you do, all the time, is spew venom and encourage others to spew venom, without anything resembling proper feedback or remotely constructive criticism, then you need to...wait for it...

Shut. Up.

Because you're part of the problem, not a victim.

Woa there, who says I want to be part of the solution? What makes you think your "solution" is right that you're going to tell people to shut up and leave?

At least for me, the solution is to help this **** sink as fast as possible so perhaps another developer worth anything at all can try their hand. Or maybe not, maybe we wait for another decade for a better game? I'm cool with that too. If creating a forum environment that facilitates in turning newcomers away and which speeds up this process, i'm doing it. For myself personally, not so much on these forums but other media I have been actively doing this.

So yeah, i'll be part of that solution I just described. You're not going to get people to stop posting what you don't want to hear. Actually there is bugger all you're going to do about it, to be honest.

[Kin3ticX]

Mercstar ruined phase 3, lets be real here guys and gals

Srs though, I was thinking that Russ wised up and finally stopped using the blasted twitter as some kind of internal long planned company strategy shift...

but sadly.....

then I realized it wasn't mastermind strategery its really just likely PGI hiding because they botched a major patch, a townhall, and some tournament stuff.

so there you go.

PGI Fortress is building walls, not bridges

Wanna still buy a mechpack though?

Edited by Kin3ticX, 06 June 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Helsbane]

The proper analogy finally hit me a bit ago to describe my position on PGI and MechWarrior.

The MW universe is like an old friend, one I've hung out with for years. Over the last four years, that friend has developed cancer and I've watched as they've slowly deteriorated. Now, the type of cancer this old friend has is curable, and properly treated, my old friend would be doing fine. Unfortunately, the doctor providing care for my old friend is a complete moron. Nothing he does to 'treat' my old friend actually does any good long term, simply moving laterally from one set of symptoms to another. Friends and family have tried repeatedly to explain that there are better ways of handling the sickness and keeping my old friend from dying, but this doctor won't listen.

So, I'm at the point where I'd rather see my old friend pass, because seeing the hell this doctor is putting them through day after day with their sheer incompetence is ridiculous. At least my old friend wouldn't be suffering at their hands any more.

[Kin3ticX]

Helsbane, on 06 June 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The proper analogy finally hit me a bit ago to describe my position on PGI and MechWarrior.

The MW universe is like an old friend, one I've hung out with for years. Over the last four years, that friend has developed cancer and I've watched as they've slowly deteriorated. Now, the type of cancer this old friend has is curable, and properly treated, my old friend would be doing fine. Unfortunately, the doctor providing care for my old friend is a complete moron. Nothing he does to 'treat' my old friend actually does any good long term, simply moving laterally from one set of symptoms to another. Friends and family have tried repeatedly to explain that there are better ways of handling the sickness and keeping my old friend from dying, but this doctor won't listen.

So, I'm at the point where I'd rather see my old friend pass, because seeing the hell this doctor is putting them through day after day with their sheer incompetence is ridiculous. At least my old friend wouldn't be suffering at their hands any more.

so you are saying this is PGI's doctor

[Templar Dane]

1453 R, on 06 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

All of it? No.

But let's be realistic here, Stun - there are better ways to get across one's displeasure or dissatisfaction with the current state of the game than the vitriolic, curse-laden, hateful ranting so often employed by the browbeating savages that frequent this wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Again - would you want to talk to howling hate-zerkers who're clearly not going to listen to a single word you say because they have decided they're dead-set on Hating PGI Forever? Piranha needs to communicate better, yes - but a part of that is in fact on the playerbase for A.) being howling hatezerkers, or B.) allowing the howling hatezerkers to say whatever they want.

It's why I figure they should honestly take a harder stance on people who're nothing but hatemongers. No, don't censor anyone/everyone who has a negative opinion to share, but if all you do, all the time, is spew venom and encourage others to spew venom, without anything resembling proper feedback or remotely constructive criticism, then you need to...wait for it...

Shut. Up.

Because you're part of the problem, not a victim.

One of the lessons companies teach about customer service, is that a company should listen to customer complaints. The reason is that the vast majority of unhappy customers never say a thing. They just leave.

If you've got some serious issues with your company on the customer end and none of your customers ever complain, you're kind of screwed because you don't know what changes to make. The needed changes never get made. You lose all your customers. You go belly up.

It's better for them to speak their minds. It doesn't matter if the white knights don't like what they have to say.

[Helsbane]

Kin3ticX, on 06 June 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

so you are saying this is PGI's doctor

Yep. Quackery at its finest.

Buy a snake oil pack!

[Hydrocarbon]

I hope sooner rather than later PGI realizes the best fix is sometimes SIMPLICITY. The fix to poptarting? Ghost heat & JJ mechanics! CW? Split it into 4 queues & reduce attack lanes!

Their "thinktank" seems to come up with a slew of ideas but tosses out all but the most complicated & unstable/unfeasible of them.

1453 R, on 06 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

but if all you do, all the time, is spew venom and encourage others to spew venom, without anything resembling proper feedback or remotely constructive criticism

When such a small game has such an abnormally large number of toxic ragers, it indicates the dev JUST MIGHT BE RESPONSIBLE. There's been plenty of unified "constructive criticism" and PGI has consistently turned a blind eye. "Working as intended" doesn't cut it when the paying customers hate the idea/mechanic/content.