19 replies to this topic

[Ryan256]

I have recently purchased a STK-5M and configured 2 different LRM builds for it around five LRM10 launchers. The big question is do I use Artemis or not? The builds:
Artemis:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8305fd10776373a
Non-Artemis:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a807a95206b4587

The way I understand it is this: Artemis gives you the advantage of a tighter group resulting in more damage to the CT. However, if you do not have line of sight to the target you lose all Artemis bonuses. I'm planning on using this primarily as an indirect fire support mech. Meaning no line of sight. Should I still go for Artemis for some other bonus? Or am I better suited with regular LRMs?

[TercieI]

Taking an assault and denying your team your armor is bad, selfish and losing play. So if you must LRM, Artemis and be in the fight.

Edited by TercieI, 06 June 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Raso]

First of all remember that Artemis is most worthwhile if you you have line of sight. If you use Artemis then it behooves you to play as a front or second line support unit rather than hanging back and raining death on the rock in front of your target.

I would, personally, go with something more along these lines and I'll explain why.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a795497d8d338d1

First of all you have more speed and for an LRM mech speed is key. I've dropped a ton of ammo for a TAG. If you're going to be using LOS targeting then you should be able to do your own tagging. You also shouldn't be trying to land shots beyond 500, or so, meters, so you'll be well within TAG range. Tag and Artemis stack but you also get bonus Cbills for TAGing for your team. Lastly I've downgraded two of your LRMs to work with your available missile tubes. Aside from being a more effecent use of your tonnage this has the added benifit of giving you two LRM5s to use for either when you are less confident your salvo will connect or for when you want to chain fire them to suppress the enemy.

I'm sure some will give both of us flack for running an XL in a stalker but honestly I believe that if you're playing a second line LRM Stalker just right then you should be able to present yourself as a lower priority target and thus mitigate some of that added vulnerability.

[Ryan256]

Ok... after some thought and deliberation I settled on the following:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...49ee33f94811410

Swapped out the medium lasers for small lasers to save 2 tons. Their optimal range coincides with when enemies are too close for LRMs anyways. Also sacrificed the ammo stored in the CT for a tag and an extra heat sink. This build seems to work pretty well. Mechs caught in the open suffer from a continuous chain fired barrage of missles and soon die.

Edited by Ryan256, 07 June 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[TercieI]

Ryan256, on 07 June 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Ok... after some thought and deliberation I settled on the following:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...49ee33f94811410

Swapped out the medium lasers for small lasers to save 2 tons. Their optimal range coincides with when enemies are too close for LRMs anyways. Also sacrificed the ammo stored in the CT for a tag and an extra heat sink. This build seems to work pretty well. Mechs caught in the open suffer from a continuous chain fired barrage of missles and soon die.

Well, I hadn't really looked at your builds before. XL in a STK is a big no-no. They're very tough because they lose STs before CT. That XL makes it suicidal, I'm afraid. Big STD is the way to go. If you must LRM on this variant (low tube count makes it sub-optimal for it), try something like this.

[Raso]

Even though the minimum range of LRMs is 180m I would not engage mechs with LRMs who were closer than around 220m. The reason being that between travel time and the missile arc LRMs just tend to not be that effective. IMHO it's better to use the medium lasers at that range.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a813d69bc2e7ed

If you take Terciel's advice and go with an STD engine I'd, personally, build it this way. IMO you want to keep the Medium lasers and you may as well avoid using launchers with more tubes than you have.

Edited by Raso, 07 June 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Try this one
- stronger and better heat efficient alpha 27 dmg at 18 heat vs 20 dmg at 16 heat
- LPLs could allow you to poke over a hill at a bit of distance,,,
- and TAG in arm will help to self-TAG targets.Ideally to peek over a hill,shoot 2xLPL and meanwhile acquire lock faster,shoot LRMs volley and go back to cover.
- LRM5 lanuchers are great on their own at drilling CT,even without Artemis.Having and opportunity you can tag your target to make them even more effective.If not,you can rain missiles from behind cover without worrying that 5t of tonnage is wasted.
- LRM5 have low cooldown;that,and 5 pieces of them on chainfire would create a very dangerous,continuous stream of missiles hitting and disorienting target.Excellent to help our teammates finish off these damn Kodiaks 3 (if they keep lock or course)
- 17 heatsinks should be enough to ignore ghost heat penalty.
- 1260 missiles means 50 salvos,which should be enough for entire match without worry of misses.

Edited by MasterBLB, 07 June 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[TercieI]

The last two are probably better LRM builds than I suggest. Of course, this is what you should actually do with the 5M.

[paws2sky]

The STK-5M was my first assault and pretty much sold me on the chassis.

Two general points...

First, I don't like XL engines in STKs. They take up valuable space (when combined with Endo Steel) and leave you far too vulnerable. It's better in my opinion to go with a standard engine so that when a side torso inevitably gets sheered off, you can still fight. Some assaults may be able to pull it off, but most can't.

Second, I will never advise going with a slower engine. Speed is just too important. It lets you keep up with the blob, quickly move into a better firing position, and withdraw if you overextend yourself. A bigger engine also improves your twist speed, making it easier to respond to threats and new targets. All of my STKs run 300 STD. It's a good speed:weight ratio for the STK and gives two free slots for extra Heat Sinks, which is really useful when dealing with DHS.

Now, regarding the builds...

Both mechs are suffering from the same basic issue. You're sacrificing engine for missile tubes. I know you want to boat, but... Frankly, I would never pilot the first one, as it breaks both of my cardinal rules. I would expect to see that mech quickly gutted by precision laser or AC fire, or an ambitious light mech. The second one, I might consider using, but I would be hesitant about it. Again, I would expect to see it die to side torso loss.

Endo Steel is a really good thing. It is worth the investment. It will probably also necessitate switching back to an Standard engine.

In both cases, I would drop a ton of ammo for TAG.

And comes the heresy... I don't like using all 5 missile hard points on the 5M. For me, the 5M's biggest selling point isn't the hard points. It's the ultra-rare +Missile Range quirk. Combined with a level 5 LRM range module, you're looking at a colossal 1250m range for your LRMs. No one expects that kind of reach. By yourself, you need BAP and Advanced Range Module to take advantage of that, but you can still use a friendly lock to fire at distant targets.

My STK-5M Classic build got me through a couple difficult of months of (4-10 FPS) play with my old potato-grade computer. It's my most successful mech from that ugly era and remains a nostalgic favorite.

I should also point out that there is something that I really like about the builds. It's a minor thing, but I appreciate that you left the MLs on. You didn't downgrade to small or any nonsense like that either. There's nothing sadder and more frustrating than speccing an LRM boat with no close range weapons that is getting nickle and dimed to death by something inside 180m. Don't be that guy.

@Raso (and everyone else who posted it...): 2 armor on the back? You're joking, right?

-paws
STK fanboy

Edited by paws2sky, 07 June 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[Ryan256]

Ok... if I understand correctly you have to destroy both side torsos to kill a mech with an XL engine. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. However this has never really been an issue for me. When I get killed it's usually in a massive strike from several mechs that plows through ST and CT in less than 30 seconds. Barely enough time to torso twist to soak damage on the other ST. And even if I was successful I'd have lost all weapons.... might as well be dead. Those are my reason's for an XL engine. That and I needed the tonnage for other things.
Why downgrade 2-3 of the launchers to LRM5s? Each time you do that you halve the damage do you not? I have the cooldown module for LRM10s and with that I am able to maintain a steady rain of missles to severly incapacitate the other pilot. The only issue I've run into is heat but losing a ton of ammo for another heatsink made this much more managable.

[TercieI]

Ryan256, on 07 June 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Ok... if I understand correctly you have to destroy both side torsos to kill a mech with an XL engine. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. However this has never really been an issue for me. When I get killed it's usually in a massive strike from several mechs that plows through ST and CT in less than 30 seconds. Barely enough time to torso twist to soak damage on the other ST. And even if I was successful I'd have lost all weapons.... might as well be dead. Those are my reason's for an XL engine. That and I needed the tonnage for other things.
Why downgrade 2-3 of the launchers to LRM5s? Each time you do that you halve the damage do you not? I have the cooldown module for LRM10s and with that I am able to maintain a steady rain of missles to severly incapacitate the other pilot. The only issue I've run into is heat but losing a ton of ammo for another heatsink made this much more managable.

Clan XL takes both STs to kill, IS just one. CT always kills.

The Stalker may be the single least XL friendly chassis in the entire game because the CT is a thin strip. It actually does a lot of damage spreading for you. An XL gives up that huge advantage.

[Ryan256]

TercieI, on 07 June 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Clan XL takes both STs to kill, IS just one. CT always kills.

The Stalker may be the single least XL friendly chassis in the entire game because the CT is a thin strip. It actually does a lot of damage spreading for you. An XL gives up that huge advantage.

FML

Wish I'd known that before spending c-bills on an XL 280 engine. Yeah... I'm changing that then.

[paws2sky]

Ryan256, on 07 June 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

FML

Wish I'd known that before spending c-bills on an XL 280 engine. Yeah... I'm changing that then.

Hold onto that engine. It might come in handy down the road if you decided to start working on a Light or Medium.

-paws

[TercieI]

Ryan256, on 07 June 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

FML

Wish I'd known that before spending c-bills on an XL 280 engine. Yeah... I'm changing that then.

paws2sky, on 07 June 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Hold onto that engine. It might come in handy down the road if you decided to start working on a Light or Medium.

-paws

For sure hold onto it! The XL280 is one of the most commonly used XL engines in the game (along with the 255, 295 and 300).

[Ryan256]

Ok.... here's the 2 builds I have come up with using STD engines.
STD 300:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ce1c9a5d207bf4

STD 275:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ff041f05b4d293

Given the need to use a STD engine I'm dropping Artemis to keep all LRM10s. I think I'm going to go with the STD 275. It has more armor, more ammo, and better heat management. I also primarily engage with indirect fire. I don't think 4.8 kph is going to make that big of a difference. Besides..... I've learned to be well aware of my position and to keep up with the group from playing my DWF-W.

Edited by Ryan256, 07 June 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[Spheroid]

You should really consider adding some LRM5s to the torso launchers. Not only is the spread tighter you can negate the ghost heat on the 10s.

[Ryan256]

Spheroid, on 07 June 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

You should really consider adding some LRM5s to the torso launchers. Not only is the spread tighter you can negate the ghost heat on the 10s.

I negate ghost heat through chain fire. Even with 1800 missles you can burn through it very fast if you only fire alphas.

[Raso]

If you're ditching the Artemis then you absolutely need to use some LRM5s. One of the reasons people keep suggesting you ditch the LRM10s is because of their spread. Artemis and Tag help to reduce that spread, though, so they're usable with Artemis. Another factor, however, is tube count. You will lose DPS as your torso mounted LRM10s will take longer to fire.

I would run something like this.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4f7f11380ec7c2c

Ample Ammo, LRM5s let you conserve your ammo when you need to pace yourself and the medium lasers will let you retain usefulness when your tubes run dry or if you are in some other a scenario where you are unable to use your LRMs (ie poor terrain, too much ECM or AMS coverage, you get suckered into a situation where there is a ceiling over your head, ect).

[mogs01gt]

LRM5's or go home!
STK-5M

[InspectorG]

Stalker -5M screams SRM + punching faces.

But if you must LRM, the sweet spot is @400m away from the action. Less air time for LRMs, share armor, wont get tunnel vision and get left behind. Use Artemis.

Really a STD300 engine is pretty much standard for most Stalker builds, as a reference point.