56 replies to this topic

[Brut4ce]

Rushin Roulette, on 06 June 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

Pfft. Dont you know? The IS has a hard conter to the shadowlurmer... the incredible, the completely OP, the spreader of panic, death and destruction. Witness the power of this fully armed and opperational battlestation known as the almighty Lurmcust.

You forgot to put DHS on that

[DarthHias]

No he´s right, on that build you don´t have enough crit slots for the DHS.
Even worse, he forgot that the XL180 weighs the same as the XL175.
L2L man (Learn to Locust)

[Ezra Grimani]

I love blanket statements like this, no matter what I respond with to the OP there is pretty much 99% chance it's not gonna be wrong.

For example:






bad meme

[Rushin Roulette]

He, the Lurmcust doesnt need such things as DHS (waste of space as the saved slots are used to hold the champagne cooler for the after fight Bondgirl scenes) and the larger XL engine is not needed because you want the enemy to at least catch a glimpse of your mech a split second before you decimate him/her in a lake of fire and missiles.

The lumcust is what put the word "fear" into "panic" (and before you say that the word fear can not be found in "panic"... the Lumrcust is that good ).

[Void Angel]

Chagatay, on 06 June 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

It maybe quite funny but I am personally finding that clan lasers in general are not the go to weapons as they once were. The only two clan laser based weapons that I still use are cSPL and cLPL. Both still have *MUCH* longer burn times than the IS MPL and IS LPL. This coupled with bigger IS heat caps, short engagement ranges on most FP maps, and extra HP quirks seemingly gives IS a distinct edge in laser tag.

As far as a shift in tactics, I do think that it is occurring. More SPL boats, SRM builds, and PPCs are being used. I have even switched up my Warhawk from 4xcLPL to a 2xErPPC/2xcLPL for less "face time" and continue to make sure I am well on the move preferably outside of 700m of what I am shooting because I want no part of 500m or less at least in that mech.

And a change in tactics and associated weapons is what needs to happen before people just throw up their hands and announce the Enbd Of All Things.

[Monodominant]

LordNothing, on 06 June 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

while the oxide is down right deadly, it still pales in comparison to the iic imho. more tubes, more ammo, more speed. 72 point alpha, what can the oxide do? 43? lol. also the jenner iic can run faster with its max damage loadout (and carry an extra half ton of ammo on top of it).

And JJ in case you got cornered.

And Clan XL...

And CASE.

[justcallme A S H]

Thanks to every contributor to this thread.

It's been a vast improvement on the OP's post, which was, lacking. Not sure where, but it was definitely lacking.

[nehebkau]

@ OP

In case you didn't see it -- both sides to the exact same things over and over. Charge into the gates destroy the gens kill more robots than the other guys.

Its dynamic game play.

[habu86]

The Oxide v JIIc comes down to Alpha+Speed+JJs vs. DPS+Structure quirks. An argument could be made regarding the cXL engine on the IIc, but the Jenners' hitbox problems are usually more a function of the big, jutting CT more than the side torsos.

With respect to speed, the difference between the meta-builds is only 7kph in the IIc's favor, but, when they're going that fast, it'll hardly matter to most other people; the Jenners are hauling. The JJs and Structure can both help the mechs survive; some people will prefer the JJs for additional flexibility (and JJ spam), others will prefer structure because it's a passive defense and they don't have to actively focus on it.

Lastly, the meta-builds in both of those mechs use 4xSRM4s in both mechs, plus 2xSRM2s on the IIc. You can also run 5xSRM4 on the IIc if you like, for lower DPS but better heat efficiency. Either way you do it, the difference in alphas isn't as big as you might think (34.4 Oxide v. 40 JIIc). Additionally, thanks to the 15% missile cooldown quirk on the Oxide, burst DPS is pretty much dead even - 17.7 for JIIc with 4xSRM4+2xSRM2, 16.9 for Oxide, and 16.1 for JIIc with 5xSRM4. They all score just over 6 sustained DPS (6.7 Oxide v. 6.1 IIc).

Yes, you can put a 72-point alpha on the IIc, but the spread on the 6's is problematic, the heat is very real (mind the GH too), and you'll have to give up ammo, JJs or engine in order to make it work. I tried it, it's fun, but prolly not something to bring if you're facing serious opposition.

The real difference comes down to the amount of damage that they can put down before running into their heat caps and go from dealing burst to dealing sustained DPS, and this is where the Oxide wins by a country mile. With cooldown mods, the 4xSRM4+2xSRM2 IIc runs into heatcap first (7.6 seconds) dealing 168 points of the damage, the 5xSRM4 IIc is second (10 seconds) dealing 200 points of damage, and the Oxide reaches it last (14.4 seconds) dealing 275 points of damage in the process. Simply put, there's not much to pick between them in terms of DPS, but the Oxide can sustain its peak output for considerably longer.

Ultimately, they're both disgustingly powerful mechs and they're close enough to be competitive with each other, with pilot skills and tactical situation often deciding the winner. But it's also worth remembering that they're both light mechs and that most people can't drive lights to save their lives, so individual results may vary

Edited by habu86, 07 June 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Spheroid, on 06 June 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

I have fought against you, your dropdeck is bad. Stop bringing lurm Shadowcats to CW.

But....lurms are the best weapon in the game! You don't have to be able to aim and your team takes all the damage for you. Besides, Russ says we have to be nice to new players and teach them how to play.....at the expense of everything else, including winning.

[Husker Dude]

Chagatay, on 06 June 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

It maybe quite funny but I am personally finding that clan lasers in general are not the go to weapons as they once were. The only two clan laser based weapons that I still use are cSPL and cLPL.

Ironically, I think that Clan MPLs are probably the most useful on most maps, and easily boat-able on most Clan mechs. A six-MPL Hellbringer is a pretty great mech for basically any CW situation.

[Chagatay]

Husker Dude, on 08 June 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Ironically, I think that Clan MPLs are probably the most useful on most maps, and easily boat-able on most Clan mechs. A six-MPL Hellbringer is a pretty great mech for basically any CW situation.

The main problem with the cMPL in CW is that it is basically in the same range category as isLPL, isML, and isMPL and notably worse in performance. Although cMPL is still much better than the clan ER laser family for CW/FW and would take third place for me for energy weapons*.

A MPL boated Hellbringer is probably one of the better mechs to use if you are going to trade at that range as it does have good geometry for a clan mech. Still my money is on the Black Knights and other assorted IS laser boats, but if it works well for you....use it.

Edit
I recant some of what I said as indeed I do use some cMPLs on one of my mechs 6xcSPL/3xcMPL Stormcrow (mostly just as a flanking hits or as I close in to use cSPLs).

Edited by Chagatay, 08 June 2016 - 03:31 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Chagatay, on 08 June 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

The main problem with the cMPL in CW is that it is basically in the same range category as isLPL, isML, and isMPL and notably worse in performance. Although cMPL is still much better than the clan ER laser family for CW/FW and would take third place for me for energy weapons*

IS MPL - 220 - 440 (6dmg)
IS LPL - 365 - 700 (11dmg)

cMPL - 330 - 560 (8dmg)
The IS MPL really isn't in the same league and the cMPL fits right in the middle of both the IS really. Don't forget a IS LPL is 5 ton heavier for 3 more dmg/range.

[nimdabew]

cernorama, on 06 June 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Lately its the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over. (you see where i am going with this?) They rush with laser vomit , wipe you out and then hold drop zone hostage and you drop. the over abundance of Laser Vomit builds is ungodly, it seems that all the IS carries now or the SRM oxide build that kills you with 3 blasts.

Frankly its getting old and boring and starting to be not worth playing cause it's not worth playing a game that you get your *** kicked 90% of the time, not cause the IS pilots are any better, but cause they have great builds to use to their advantage and every laser vomit rapefest I see hasn't had much of a counter to prevent it from happening.

IS can't seem to do anything different to win just, rush, laser vomit, rinse and repeat and PGI doesn't seem to have done anything to make game play to prevent this.

Missile builds:
Jenner IIC (4x SRM4 2x SRM6)
Timber Wolf (4x ASRM6 + Laser vomit)
Mad Dog (6x ASRM6)

Laser Vomit
Ebon Jag (2x LPLas, 5x SPLas)
Ebon Jag (2x ERLLas, 4x MLas)
Timber Wolf (2x ERLLas, 5x MLLas)
Hell Bringer (6x ERMLas)
Hell Bringer (2x LPLas, 4x SPlas)

Clanners do the same thing. Don't complain.

[Baulven]

R31Nismoid, on 08 June 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

IS MPL - 220 - 440 (6dmg)
IS LPL - 365 - 700 (11dmg)

cMPL - 330 - 560 (8dmg)
The IS MPL really isn't in the same league and the cMPL fits right in the middle of both the IS really. Don't forget a IS LPL is 5 ton heavier for 3 more dmg/range.

Those numbers would mean a lot more if you didn't have 10-30% range, duration and heat generation quirks on a lot of mechs. If you add a third to the range those become significantly better, can be used in high quantities, become nearly instant damage and don't require you to face tank to do damage. Being able to shoot more often is a help of a force modification since it makes it so you aren't punished as much of someone uses cover or does manage to twist on a couple of your shots.

Just food for thought.

[Husker Dude]

There aren't many IS mechs with quirks enough to a 30% laser range bonus anymore.
I'm going through the list and the only one I'm seeing first pass is the Golden Boy, and that's for MPLs only, most everything has been bumped down to a flat 10% after the last quirk pass. The only other ones that come to mind immediately with greater than 10% are the Thunderbolts, with one 25% (MPLs on the 5SS) and 20% on two others for LLs and LPLs.
I'm sure that there are a couple more out there, but on the whole you're not dealing with more than a 10% bump in IS range.

I don't really have a problem with any of the IS laser quirks, each of them only brings them marginally closer to the base Clan stats.
Burn duration really is the only factor which I think needs to be tweaked a bit.

[Crockdaddy]

Armando, on 06 June 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

The answer is simple: WOULD YOU LIKE TO BUY A MECHPACK?

Yes please, I dearly look forward to paying 80$ US for one single mech and all its variants.

[Crockdaddy]

FallingAce, on 06 June 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

Clan Jade Falcon +66 planets
W/L 1.85

Both tops in Faction Warfare

KCOM (65 of those planets directly or indirectly) **mild sarcasm but those guys really carry**

[Crockdaddy]

Baulven, on 09 June 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

Those numbers would mean a lot more if you didn't have 10-30% range, duration and heat generation quirks on a lot of mechs. If you add a third to the range those become significantly better, can be used in high quantities, become nearly instant damage and don't require you to face tank to do damage. Being able to shoot more often is a help of a force modification since it makes it so you aren't punished as much of someone uses cover or does manage to twist on a couple of your shots.

Just food for thought.

Do you even patch note brah? If you've read the patch notes ... no IS mech of significance has more than a 10% buff. Clans out of the box have much greater ranges.

[C E Dwyer]

Zimm Kotare, on 06 June 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

I initially read this as "Moron Salt". Irrespective of the argument taking place, I enjoyed it. Thank you.

I'm going to lend you my glasses.

I clearly wasn't wearing them either, as I read it the same as you did