289 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Tag toggle and guass auto fire option and UAC 5 fastest fire by default on button hold would be the changes that would even the playing field a lot more for me. Although few that I see play use a macro for tag.

These changes would remove "macro" use advantage. Which is why these changes may not be to popular among some.

Edited by Johnny Z, 08 June 2016 - 12:31 AM.

[DarthHias]

Uh, please go ahead toggle your Tag makes it easier to find you.

Every halfway decent player just learned how to use a Gauss. If it´s above someone, there´s plenty ballistics to use.

I can double tap my UACs myself thank you.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

It would not fix the macro problem at all to add the functionality to the game. Those people would then start complaining about AC2 OP (like the KDK 3 threads). It isn't and never has been a macro issue, it's a potato issue, people wander around alone in huge fat Mechs in the open then get hit with AC spam and can't find cover before they get (very slowly) ganked, generally the same people who think LRMs are dangerous and worry about screen shake 'stun lock' from LRM 5.

Want to stop AC macro spam? Use cover...

[Helene de Montfort]

It's really funny to see how many people think macros don't give any advantage, but still don't want them to be banned. If they don't give you any advantage, why use them? Or if you don't use them, why do you care about them being banned?

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Quality of life Helene, simple as that. I do not use them for weapons fire at all because I cannot be bothered to set them up (I took over 30 minutes to make my vision mode voice activation toggle). Because honestly the benefit to my fun level/combat effectiveness is not worth my time and effort to take 5 minutes to set one up.

[Bobzilla]

It will be great to revisit this topic when alphas cause a penalty. I'm sure it will be disregarded, just like now with avoiding GH perfectly with a single click is now, right 627?

The point is, if anyone can do it, it's not an unfair advantage.

Stop arguing if its an advantage, the argument is its not unfair cause everyone has access.

Edited by Bobzilla, 08 June 2016 - 02:34 AM.

[Curccu]

Helene de Montfort, on 08 June 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

It's really funny to see how many people think macros don't give any advantage, but still don't want them to be banned. If they don't give you any advantage, why use them? Or if you don't use them, why do you care about them being banned?

Because some of them are fun, like AC dakka macros.. it makes those weapons less effective but it sounds and looks cool.
Because some bad players are not able to push and release 1 mouse button (this is for gauss and is great disadvantage).
Because it is pretty hard to enforce that ban and because macros don't give anyone any real advantage those would be just wasted resources from PGI side.
And I don't use macros because those are only a crutch but because of above lines I am against banning them.

[Andi Nagasia]

if you ban macro use you better be ready to ban gaming Mouses Joysticks and VR,Use,
because it gives an advantage, no matter how slight,

Edit-
also for all those saying well you dont use them so you shouldnt care if their banned?
think on this for a second, saying you never get the Flu and so you never use Flu Medicine,
doesnt mean that Flu Medicine is bad or useless, its just not yet for you,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 08 June 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[CygnusX7]

Quote

Now point to the chart where the bad macro touched you.

[Mystere]

Moldur, on 07 June 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

You guys bring up excellent points. In a perfect world, PGI would have some endorsed programs for macros and scripts, or a better in-game ui for these purposes, and be able to filter out the rest. PGI would also align their own mechanics so that one thing (like double tap) doesn't conflict with some other thing (like ghost heat.) If anyone could bring to light if that is intentional or not, that would be great, because for the longest time, as I have understood it, it seems like an unintentional side effect of ghost heat, namely on the UAC-20.

The accessibility thing is a really good point, a guy in my former unit played with all voice commands, as that was the only way he could play.

In short, I'd rather there be more official support on the matter. The TOS in regard to macros is what it is because they couldn't enforce it otherwise, so as far as that goes, it is a pointless discussion to try and ban macros, yes.

I have my doubts PGI can build into MWO a capable macro system, much less something as sophisticated as Thrustmaster's TARGET scripting system. Heck, they can't even get their joystick support right and I'm supposed to rely on them for such things? Que horror!

Moldur, on 07 June 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

My main issue is the intellectual dishonesty of people claiming that macros really can't do anything other than confer absolutely zero advantage compared to being without them. It is not true. Macros are allowed not because they confer no advantage, not because they are fair, not because they allow a person to do absolutely nothing useful, not one single useful use outside of what one could do manually. No. Macros are allowed because PGI can't do anything about it.

You forgot to mention being able to fire grouped lasers, or what have you, at the exact intervals to avoid ghost heat, like on a 4x erLL build.

That's their problem, not mine.

Moldur, on 07 June 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

I-I d-d-don't know what to say after that. I thought we were all just bored and yelling with vitriol on a forum like everyone else. I never knew I was actually talking to an ascended one. Praise be to you, holy one.


Ugga ugga, ooh ooh,

unga bunga ooga booga booga.

Darn it! I did it again! I have rendered someone dumbfounded once again with my words. My charm and diplomacy teacher would be very disappointed when she hears about this.

[Mystere]

Tarogato, on 07 June 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

So sure, go ahead... ban them. Remove them. Somehow. I don't know how you're going to do it, but nobody is going to complain when they're gone. Except for maybe PGI, who now has one more thing to keep track of and monitor (if it's even possible... ). In other words, #notworth

I'm sure someone can convince some gaming hardware companies to publicly ridicule such a move.

[Mystere]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 June 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

I’m not here to tell you how to play, whatever gets you through the game. I just though this answer was a bit contrived. Anyone whose brain is overworked playing MWO, should probably do the work.

Brain is overworked? Hardly. It's called allocating more resources to more important activities.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 June 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Let’s face it, you are not going to the results you describe from using macros, if anything they are likely dull your edge by pulling you out of the game,

Obviously you've not seen in action any of my macro-driven starfighter escape maneuvers or dakka macros with "random" intervals between shots.

Hmm. Maybe the latter are what are causing people to run to the forums and complain about macros.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 June 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

the same reason nascar drivers don’t use automatics or antilock brakes.

That's why they're in NASCAR and not F1.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 June 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Although I have heard that some of the hardcore esports players get the benefits you are seeking with Adderall, which I believe is also allowed in MWO.

Didn't any of your parents, friends, teachers, counselors, doctors, or local law enforcement officers tell you that drugs are bad for you?

[Mechteric]

Even if they wanted to ban the use of macros, there's no way to do it technologically. Because, you see, every gaming mouse comes with utilities that enable them.

It's better instead for them to see if perhaps the mechanics of the game are what are wrong, otherwise they don't need to do a thing.

[Mystere]

Scout Derek, on 07 June 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

To me, all they do is save my finger from clicking and getting carpel-tunnel that much quicker.

You're right on the money.

Many people who complain about macros seem to have a very narrow/limited perspective. It's the people who think beyond the normal that derive much more benefits from macros.

[dario03]

Johnny Z, on 08 June 2016 - 12:02 AM, said:

Saying gauss 3 stage fire is better than a gauss one stage fire is a lie.

Its more of a preference.

[Mystere]

Johnny Z, on 07 June 2016 - 11:52 PM, said:

I don't know. I only know about their use from other games. Way worse hacking in other games goes on and more often.

My point was that the same guys that argue so strongly for macro use worry me. Although I could see my self using a macro maybe so macros are not a clear subject. I don't like third party programs at all because of this. It would be better it were included in the game or not at all.

These guys using every trick to get the win......

Which reminds me, are ASUS' "Sonic Radar 2" (sound direction/source visualization) and "Gameplus Technology" (in-monitor crosshair) even allowed? Are they even detectable?

Johnny Z, on 08 June 2016 - 12:02 AM, said:

Saying gauss 3 stage fire is better than a gauss one stage fire is a lie.

The problem is that the "usual" gauss macro has no way to abort a shot. If the target gets into cover during charge, you just wasted a shot, opportunity, and time.

Edited by Mystere, 08 June 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Mystere]

totgeboren, on 08 June 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

Ah, ok, now I get your analogy. To me there is a big difference between scripts controlling your movement and scripts that give a sequence of button pushes from one button push, but now that I thought about it dividing it like that is kinda arbitrary.

In the best of worlds PGI would implement a weapons lab, or at the very least the ability to set the chain-fire stagger yourself for each weapon group and to allow the group to be a toggle, like AMS is now.

If we had that basic functionality I would be all for banning macros, at least on paper (would often be hard to prove who is guilty though).
As it is now, the game is in my view missing basic code, and if PGI says we should go to third party sources to find the missing code, that's what I will do.

That would be nice, but having the stagger interval controlled by an analog lever/input is much much better.

Quote

As it is now, the game is in my view missing basic code, and if PGI says we should go to third party sources to find the missing code, that's what I will do.

But, for all practical purposes, that is what PGI has already said when they allowed macros.

Edited by Mystere, 08 June 2016 - 07:31 AM.

[Hydrocarbon]

Mcgral18, on 07 June 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Mouse wheel up, down, LMB

MWO will not accept my scroll wheel as an input, therefor I submit that we ban all scroll wheel users.

Prosperity Park, on 07 June 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

(p.s. Macroing your Gauss to automatically fire after 0.5 sec is a hinderance/nerf to the weapon because you can't hold your fire if a target moves out of sight

Actually you can, you just add a line that monitors the button input. If it's time to fire but the button is still down, it "cooks" it til you release. The problem is AHK is unreliable for gauss IMO, making the gauss charge more noticeable is far better. I'd love to triple the charge sound, but I'll settle for mapping it to my unused weap slots to light up the reticle better.

[Mystere]

Johnny Z, on 08 June 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Tag toggle and guass auto fire option and UAC 5 fastest fire by default on button hold would be the changes that would even the playing field a lot more for me. Although few that I see play use a macro for tag.

These changes would remove "macro" use advantage. Which is why these changes may not be to popular among some.

Why would someone -- who does not have a nefarious agenda -- not agree to such changes?

Aetes Nakatomi, on 08 June 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

Quality of life Helene, simple as that. I do not use them for weapons fire at all because I cannot be bothered to set them up (I took over 30 minutes to make my vision mode voice activation toggle). Because honestly the benefit to my fun level/combat effectiveness is not worth my time and effort to take 5 minutes to set one up.

What software are you using for voice commands?

[Mystere]

Hydrocarbon, on 08 June 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

Actually you can, you just add a line that monitors the button input. If it's time to fire but the button is still down, it "cooks" it til you release. The problem is AHK is unreliable for gauss IMO, making the gauss charge more noticeable is far better. I'd love to triple the charge sound, but I'll settle for mapping it to my unused weap slots to light up the reticle better.

How about creating a macro that produces a louder sound, possibly also of increasing frequency while the gauss charges?

I myself don't use AHK so I can't say if it's possible using that.