289 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Tarogato, on 08 June 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

PGI pls ban

But, but, but, I have intentionally gimped myself by using this on my right hand to compensate:



Look carefully! It's wireless! We all know wireless devices are bad, bad, bad for gaming!!!

Edited by Mystere, 08 June 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Omaha, on 08 June 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

I believe even chat macro break this, and give you an edge over everyone else, because your dont need to stop and type in your message. While others do. Because due to how the gam3 is programed while chatting you cant operate other functions of your mech (movement and weapons and the like)

I believe we are getting comma rose support soon

[Lyoto Machida]

Xetelian, on 07 June 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

Macros do things that a normal human generally cannot. Like steroids.

If this game wants to be an eSport they're going to have to ban steroids.

That's probably going to be an archaic way of thinking in the future. People 50 years from now are probably going to look at sports in the current era and wonder why people today were making such a big fuss of medically enhancing our athletes to the highest levels of performance they could reach. Pro sports are still dirty in 2016, regardless of people getting popped here and there.

I don't use macros and don't have a problem with people using them. Never used one but maybe I should be, just to see what the fuss is about. I can still time PPC/Gauss without a macro if I wanted to, not that I usually play that way. Kinda makes me want to log in and take out the ol' CTF-3D for a spin or two.

[627]

Seems to me that everyone who is against macros tends to generalize macros and how they can push buttons in a timing humans can not.

And I agree that there are games where macros are more helpful. Diablo 3 is a good example for that, if you have a build which needs good micromanagement with the skills, a macro can keep those in rotation on cooldown, something you have to learn to do in a heated battle otherwise.

But this is not Diablo 3. Or any other game with a lot of micro-management.

All given examples for Macros in MWO show that they are not really something that'll make you perform better in a match. they are either for convinience or for fun but that's it. So why do we make such a drama every 3 weeks about it? Why is there so much hate about these simple scripts?

Edited by 627, 08 June 2016 - 10:51 PM.

[DarthHias]

Yeah, I can manage my heat just fine thanks. The minimal difference of a "ghost heat macro" as Tarogato explained will in no way influnce play performance IF THE PLAYER INVESTED A BIT OF TIME TO GIT GUD.

Also I asume triggering such Macro means you do fire all of your guns within 0.5 secs. There have been many times I had to retreat/twist after firing the first shot. In such a case, I would generat loads of excess heat and either shoot dust or shoot my teammates.

[Mechteric]

Mystere, on 08 June 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

But, but, but, I have intentionally gimped myself by using this on my right hand to compensate: Look carefully! It's wireless! We all know wireless devices are bad, bad, bad for gaming!!!

LOL trackball technology OP

[Helene de Montfort]

Another funny thing about macros users...

They are saying to all their detractors "you could do the same by training, git gud"

When they are actually using macros to do it without training. So what about them following their own advice and "git gud"?

[TKSax]

Helene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

Another funny thing about macros users...

They are saying to all their detractors "you could do the same by training, git gud"

When they are actually using macros to do it without training. So what about them following their own advice and "git gud"?

I got better with guass and gauss PPC, after I stopped using the Macro I was testing for awhile, the only macro I use in game now is a Chat Macro all the rest I used really had no positive impact on my game play and I found the inflexabilty they gave to be a hindrance. So yes Git Gud is the advice, macros are not going to take you form a regular player to some super god, macros will not win or lose you a match, or much of anything, they are just shortcuts that improve quality of live, but not quality of play.

[Dar1ng One]

Don't ban Macross, it's where Mwchwarrior comes from.

Mmmmmmm..... yes

Mech-Cellent!

[Mystere]

627, on 08 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Seems to me that everyone who is against macros tends to generalize macros and how they can push buttons in a timing humans can not.

And I agree that there are games where macros are more helpful. Diablo 3 is a good example for that, if you have a build which needs good micromanagement with the skills, a macro can keep those in rotation on cooldown, something you have to learn to do in a heated battle otherwise.

But this is not Diablo 3. Or any other game with a lot of micro-management.

All given examples for Macros in MWO show that they are not really something that'll make you perform better in a match. they are either for convinience or for fun but that's it. So why do we make such a drama every 3 weeks about it? Why is there so much hate about these simple scripts?

To some it's akin to religious conviction, and we all know by now just how much trouble that can cause.

[Mavairo]

Get Imba. I don't need no macros. Your "macro ban" would do nothing to stop me.
Then what? Ban everyone with above Potato Hardware?

[Helene de Montfort]

Mavairo, on 09 June 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Get Imba. I don't need no macros. Your "macro ban" would do nothing to stop me.
Then what? Ban everyone with above Potato Hardware?

Who asked for this? Nobody... So if you doesn't feel concerned by macros banning, why the **** are you posting here? Just to show us you are a pgm because you have pgm hardware? Or just so everybody know that you are such a pgm that you're even better than any player, even ones using macros?

I'm pretty sure however that you don't want to compare the relative price of our gaming hardware... Trust me, no FPS player can compete with combat flight sims players in this category.

[Mole]

627, on 08 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Why is there so much hate about these simple scripts?

Because people who suck are desperately grasping at any straw they can to make them feel like "I don't suck! It's the other guy that has an unfair advantage!". The way it's always been in online gaming. The way it always will be.

[Scout Derek]

Helene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Who asked for this? Nobody... So if you doesn't feel concerned by macros banning, why the **** are you posting here? Just to show us you are a pgm because you have pgm hardware? Or just so everybody know that you are such a pgm that you're even better than any player, even ones using macros?

I'm pretty sure however that you don't want to compare the relative price of our gaming hardware... Trust me, no FPS player can compete with combat flight sims players in this category.

He posted such to make a point; that with his tech and others with similar tech, the Marco ban is going to end up hurting those without such tech and keep them on the taller step while the rest have to go down a step because Marcos aren't allowed.

There were two ways to see this promptly, your way which was to question why, and my way to see he was making a point.

[Mavairo]

Helene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Who asked for this? Nobody... So if you doesn't feel concerned by macros banning, why the **** are you posting here? Just to show us you are a pgm because you have pgm hardware? Or just so everybody know that you are such a pgm that you're even better than any player, even ones using macros?

I'm pretty sure however that you don't want to compare the relative price of our gaming hardware... Trust me, no FPS player can compete with combat flight sims players in this category.

Because, I was making a point.
Mine is hardly the only MMOG mouse on the market. Logitech makes one, Corsair makes one, and there's at least two off brands that make one each.

The Naga, and it's competitors give me an advantage over people that don't have them a pretty damn big one at that. I have 12 keys on the side of my mouse alone, that I can use for various functions. Everything from weapon groups, to UAV, ECM, Arty/Airstrike, to even my Missile Doors.

In MMOs, with SHIFT, and ALT keys my fingers, aside from my right pinky NEVER have to leave the WASD, keys for anything but strafing, to activate 36 abilities, in any combination or sequence possible, faster in many cases than the games global cooldowns will allow me to. (Or in the case of games like STO which use a Shared/Separate CD system, multiple combinations nearly simultaneously. When I was fully in practice in competitive pvp in STO alone I could fire off every ability I had on the trays in under a second and a half. So yes...that IS faster than complex keybinds/macros in that particular case. But I also had THOUSANDS of hours logged into STO PVP)

In RTS games that gives me 12 groups that I can bounce to at the press of my left thumb, while my fingers on the left hand roam the entire keyboard and fire off hotkeys. No clicking and dragging, no bouncing up to the number row, just hit, hotkey, click target move on.

All a Macro Ban is going to do, or some Penalty for using macros that scrub masters of the underhive desire, is widen the gap even further between my hardware and their own.

I have a huge advantage over people with cheap hardware. For that matter in MMOs, I have a huge advantage over those who are solely dependent on macro sequences to remain competitive, as I can change sequences on the fly, with dramatically more flexibility, providing my muscle memory is up to the task. (and If I'm serious about being competitive it will be) in RIFT, my damage output, and survival rate, didn't change one bit, macros vs full manual when I was at my best. I was also, often top damage dealt, in the dmg charts.

Someone that has to take their hands off the mouse, or leave WASD, are going to be at a disadvantage, and a pretty stark one at that, vs someone with Macros, or a mouse like mine.

MWO, that is also the case due to having multiple firing keys, along with nearly every other function on my right thumb's disposal. I can manage more weapon groups, more quickly, steadily and precisely than the average user is going to. I don't have to stop aiming, firing, or moving in order to use any weapon group at my disposal or consumables, or switching ecm modes.

And you think taking macros away from people who might not necessarily have the same hardware at their disposal would be good for gameplay?

I would have thought that point would be readily apparent.
As far as "I spend more on gaming equipment than you!" goes... congratulations, you probably did. I'd rather spend the money on my sports cars, and good booze. Also FYI I don't use macros in this game.
I only experimented with them in RIFT to see if I'd like the results. ...and even then, I still wound up with 12 different macro groups before I scrapped em, for manual control.

Edited by Mavairo, 09 June 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Mystere]

Mavairo, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

And you think taking macros away from people who might not necessarily have the same hardware at their disposal would be good for gameplay?

I would have thought that point would be readily apparent.

It really makes me laugh and at the same time wonder why people constantly complain about macros -- which can be had for free -- while at the same time remain totally silent about high-end hardware that actually make more of a difference: motherboards, CPUs, GPUs, monitors, gaming keyboards, gaming pointing devices, cooling systems.

Mavairo, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I only experimented with them in RIFT to see if I'd like the results. ...

Ah, RIFT!

It's the game in which people actually loudly cried and whined about it's own built-in macro system. The developers created it so that everyone was on an even ground. But unfortunately for so many, they soon realized that they were absolutely clueless on how to fully take advantage of such a system while at the same time being regularly pummeled by those who did. They thus demanded that it be removed from the game.

Such wonderful memories I have.

Edited by Mystere, 09 June 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[Mole]

Mystere, on 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ah, RIFT!

It's the game in which people actually loudly cried and whined about it's own built-in macro system. The developers created it so that everyone was on an even ground. But unfortunately for so many, they soon realized that they were absolutely clueless on how to fully take advantage of such a system while at the same time being regularly pummeled by those who did. They thus demanded that it be removed from the game.

Such wonderful memories I have.

I played a free trial of RIFT for one day when it was released. Hated it and went back to WoW.

Edited by Mole, 09 June 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[Mavairo]

Mystere, on 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ah, RIFT!

It's the game in which people actually loudly cried and whined about it's own built-in macro system. The developers created it so that everyone was on an even ground. But unfortunately for so many, they soon realized that they were absolutely clueless on how to fully take advantage of such a system while at the same time being regularly pummeled by those who did. They thus demanded that it be removed from the game.

Such wonderful memories I have.

WOW went and released the same macro system later too.

I spent a long time, and with the help of people that knew what they were doing with the macros making mine. I could match my damage on a good day, with the macros consistently. The only real advantage I found was when drunk and pvping, I had a great deal fewer mistakes (since I set em up to operate like I would sober, for a variety of situations)

I remember people whining about the Macros, and I never really understood why, then or now. I mean sure, they're great when you are like dealing with a normal set of parameters. They're amazing for raids, but sort of okay compared to reflexive training, and muscle memory with the right hardware in pvp.

The macros in RIFT were cool, and much easier than complex keybinding (same thing..just you had to string out the code in GAME CHAT) was in STO.

WOW shortly after, incorporated that very system too IIRC. (I was playing WOW at the same time for a little while..or was I playing WOW before? I don't remember)

I quit rift, when my friends moved back to console gaming or went their separate ways in general. Shortly after I quit, this game started up the founders program.

[Mystere]

Mole, on 09 June 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

I played a free trial of RIFT for one day when it was released. Hated it and went back to WoW.

It was actually fun, at least until the whiners started demanding nerfs/buffs and the carebears started depopulating the PvP areas for the safety of the PvE ones --- almost just like MWO.

Edited by Mystere, 09 June 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[Helene de Montfort]

Mavairo, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Because, I was making a point.
Mine is hardly the only MMOG mouse on the market. Logitech makes one, Corsair makes one, and there's at least two off brands that make one each.

The Naga, and it's competitors give me an advantage over people that don't have them a pretty damn big one at that. I have 12 keys on the side of my mouse alone, that I can use for various functions. Everything from weapon groups, to UAV, ECM, Arty/Airstrike, to even my Missile Doors.

In MMOs, with SHIFT, and ALT keys my fingers, aside from my right pinky NEVER have to leave the WASD, keys for anything but strafing, to activate 36 abilities, in any combination or sequence possible, faster in many cases than the games global cooldowns will allow me to. (Or in the case of games like STO which use a Shared/Separate CD system, multiple combinations nearly simultaneously. When I was fully in practice in competitive pvp in STO alone I could fire off every ability I had on the trays in under a second and a half. So yes...that IS faster than complex keybinds/macros in that particular case. But I also had THOUSANDS of hours logged into STO PVP)

In RTS games that gives me 12 groups that I can bounce to at the press of my left thumb, while my fingers on the left hand roam the entire keyboard and fire off hotkeys. No clicking and dragging, no bouncing up to the number row, just hit, hotkey, click target move on.

All a Macro Ban is going to do, or some Penalty for using macros that scrub masters of the underhive desire, is widen the gap even further between my hardware and their own.

I have a huge advantage over people with cheap hardware. For that matter in MMOs, I have a huge advantage over those who are solely dependent on macro sequences to remain competitive, as I can change sequences on the fly, with dramatically more flexibility, providing my muscle memory is up to the task. (and If I'm serious about being competitive it will be) in RIFT, my damage output, and survival rate, didn't change one bit, macros vs full manual when I was at my best. I was also, often top damage dealt, in the dmg charts.

Someone that has to take their hands off the mouse, or leave WASD, are going to be at a disadvantage, and a pretty stark one at that, vs someone with Macros, or a mouse like mine.

MWO, that is also the case due to having multiple firing keys, along with nearly every other function on my right thumb's disposal. I can manage more weapon groups, more quickly, steadily and precisely than the average user is going to. I don't have to stop aiming, firing, or moving in order to use any weapon group at my disposal or consumables, or switching ecm modes.

And you think taking macros away from people who might not necessarily have the same hardware at their disposal would be good for gameplay?

I would have thought that point would be readily apparent.
As far as "I spend more on gaming equipment than you!" goes... congratulations, you probably did. I'd rather spend the money on my sports cars, and good booze. Also FYI I don't use macros in this game.
I only experimented with them in RIFT to see if I'd like the results. ...and even then, I still wound up with 12 different macro groups before I scrapped em, for manual control.

The only point you have made, is that in this game you need to use macro or use expensive hardware to "git gud"... So, the point you made is that the game is extremely badly designed and that it's controls are so bad that without special mouse and keyboard, you can't play effectively. Thx, we already knew that.

Guess what? Your expensive hardware doesn't help you. It does help you with a dozen weapon groups and what not only if you design your mech that way. I design my mechs so i can group my weapons in three groups for max effectiveness, and that's it. And i'm not even boating, my fav are the marauders on which i use PPC, AC2, MPL, MG, with only three groups. In order to not have to juggle with weapons because of ghost heat, i design my mechs so they are, in fact, heat efficients. I have no problem with people using expensive hardware so they can overcome the shortcomings of their mech designs. The point is, you can design your mechs so you don't need this kind of equipment.

However, this has nothing to do with macros. Macros are mostly used to improve dps by replacing the manual input of players with automated key input. What's the difference? That's easy to understand, if you take one of my mechs that are designed for use with weapons in three groups only while staying rerlatively heat efficient, using the same mech design with any gaming mouse won't change anything. Because the design isn't dependant on that hardware to be used. But if you use macros to use the exact same design, you will improve your DPS, because it will allow you to use all these weapons at best efficiency regarding cooldown and ghostheat. Your gaming mouse doesn't help with that. Macros does, among other things. Same for Gauss, you can optimize your dps by never wasting time firing them. And that's a big advantage. You can also automatize many other things. You don't have to design your mechs to be heat efficient anymore, all you have to do, is to program your macro to make it heat efficient.

As i already said, if macros are necessary in the game, they should be included in the client... Otherwise, the game should be made so using macros doesn't benefit as much as it does. Hardware isn't an issue, because the game already allow to bypass the advantage it gives. Macros is one, because the game make nothing to cancel the advantage they give.