289 replies to this topic

[Blue Pheonix]

Raised from the dead thread but......

A a semi decent player, I too think any program or application which times performing an action (casting off a spell, firing a weapon etc) at the optimal rate, when there is a potential penalty for misfiring or not timing things correctly (jammed guns, not optimal damage output etc) by manually performing these actions, should not be allowed.

I've never used a macro to play games. My mentality is just work hard and continue to practice the timing to get better.

[Tripzter]

I'm using a macro that holds down my tag button.. i guess i'm a cheater.

[Moochachoo]

Wait we can setup macros in this game?

What are some functions we can do?

[Jackal Noble]

Moochachoo, on 09 October 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

Wait we can setup macros in this game?

What are some functions we can do?

Fire stuff and shoot things

[Darth Hotz]

I doubt that it is even possible (with reasonable effort) to identify the use of macros, since every 2nd keyboard or mouse can do them.

But anyway, execept from the tag laser, I havent found any use for macros at all.

[BumbaCLot]

Mystere, on 09 October 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

This may be a necroed thread, but ...



How am I supposed to fully use my Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog in a game that cannot even recognize almost half of the gear's functionality without the use of macros?

How am I supposed to build iPad-based digital control panels (note, plural) for MWO, or any other game for that matter, without the use of macros and other custom software?

Do tell.





I highly doubt PGI has anybody capable of building something as comprehensive as Thrustmaster's TARGET software. So no dice.




No comment, yet.




Really? Joysticks are an edge?

See response to #1.




You bet your behind MWO will suffer another crippling exodus. If I cannot use my high-end gear in a game then I'll be playing another one that does. <shrugs>




Again, see response to #1. Also, see response to #4.




You bet it's moot.

Also, in the interest of "fairness" -- which all the anti-macro folks seem to use as "justification" -- should we also start banning high end CPUs? High end graphics cards? High end monitors?

Should we all be using potato computers with 1024x768 monitors, $5 keyboards and $1 mice?

I could watch this for hours! Good stuff! Or just tell Vellron firectrl exe or firectl.exe is free, and will help him get his own locks.

[Novakaine]

Don't ban macro's ban Lasors!

Edited by Novakaine, 10 October 2018 - 06:14 AM.

[Blue Pheonix]

Darth Hotz, on 10 October 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

I doubt that it is even possible (with reasonable effort) to identify the use of macros, since every 2nd keyboard or mouse can do them.

But anyway, execept from the tag laser, I havent found any use for macros at all.

Identifying macro use would be quite easy actually, its just appears that it is not a priority to do so from PGI.

An application/program can time firing (to prevent jamming/provide highest DPS output as possible) over a sustained period of time that no human can, as with with the best of humans/players, there is always a margin of human error. Machines are much better at timing then humans. Perfect in fact. This is most certainly track-able.

If a person never jams and their DPS remains 100% optimal, they are using a bot or rather a macro to assist with damage output (a benefit) and no negative consequences (jamming). Using a macro provides the benefit of using a particular weapon without one of the biggest potential drawbacks for it (jamming up/ghost heat etc).

That is why macros/programs/apps that either aim, time weapons fire or in other ways provide a significant advantage and completely removes the potential disadvantage should not be allowed. In this case, it is not just skill and practice that puts one player at an advantage over another (regardless of the degree), but a computer program/app/macro that does.

In regards to offensive weaponry fire, one should just practice and get better and not rely on programs/apps/macros to do this for them. Yes, macro use is trackable. Yes, PGI should ban macro use. However, I do not think they will as they have not up until this point and the game is years old.

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 10 October 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[Mystere]

Blue Pheonix, on 10 October 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

Identifying macro use would be quite easy actually, its just appears that it is not a priority to do so from PGI.

An application/program can time firing (to prevent jamming/provide highest DPS output as possible) over a sustained period of time that no human can, as with with the best of humans/players, there is always a margin of human error. Machines are much better at timing then humans. Perfect in fact. This is most certainly track-able.

If a person never jams and their DPS remains 100% optimal, they are using a bot or rather a macro to assist with damage output (a benefit) and no negative consequences (jamming). Using a macro provides the benefit of using a particular weapon without one of the biggest potential drawbacks for it (jamming up/ghost heat etc).

That is why macros/programs/apps that either aim, time weapons fire or in other ways provide a significant advantage and completely removes the potential disadvantage should not be allowed. In this case, it is not just skill and practice that puts one player at an advantage over another (regardless of the degree), but a computer program/app/macro that does.

In regards to offensive weaponry fire, one should just practice and get better and not rely on programs/apps/macros to do this for them. Yes, macro use is trackable. Yes, PGI should ban macro use. However, I do not think they will as they have not up until this point and the game is years old.

Well, it's a good thing then that PGI allows them.

[Astrocanis]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 06 June 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

Since when do we have macros?

I have been away a long time haven't I?

They are talking about using a macro builder outside of the game to intercept "triggers" and cause the mouse or keyboard input to the game to be different. So a 3 ac2 mech doesn't chain fire - the mouse macro on "left mouse button" fires a 1 - pause - 2 - paus - 3 (repeat)to fire the ac2 battery like a machine gun. By regulating the "pause" you can ensure that the next firing ac2 is off cooldown. It's crazy how fast it can fire.

[El Bandito]

Blue Pheonix, on 10 October 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

If a person never jams and their DPS remains 100% optimal, they are using a bot or rather a macro to assist with damage output (a benefit) and no negative consequences (jamming). Using a macro provides the benefit of using a particular weapon without one of the biggest potential drawbacks for it (jamming up/ghost heat etc).

By simply holding down the mouse button you can fire UACs without jams (and without double tap). There is no macro in the world that allows you to double tap without jams. Just as there is no chain-fire macro that allows one to put out more DPS than simply alphaing everything.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2018 - 05:52 AM.

[LordNothing]

the only macro i use lets me cycle through vision modes with one button. ive tried some pretty elaborate macros using an arduino as a fake keyboard. but they dont do any better than just making use of groups and chain fire and firing the weapons manually. if anything it mostly helps the ocd players who want perfectly spaced out shots. though i did do an instant fire gauss macro that worked by constantly cycling the guns until you hit a button. it required multiple gauss to work and you needed at least two to maintain uninterupted cycling, you could only simultaneously fire half of them so it took quad gauss to be able to insta-fire a pair. it was really too much of a pita to use in game though, because there was an arming switch involved and it was annoying unless you turned your sound off (which also gimps your situational awareness). of course now you can group four lgauss and rapid fire them for better results and you dont even need a macro.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 October 2018 - 06:15 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Try-hards will always try justify their use of macros, most commonly they'll say something along the lines of "it's what a human could do anyway" in which case what they really need to do is GitGud so they don't need to rely on macros to perform these actions.


In reality there's a handful of reasons macros should be useable, physical disabilities being the main one. After that it's more technical; weird/incompatible controllers, toggle vs. hold (tag) and cycling settings rather than using individual keys is about as far as it goes.

Chainfiring AC2s and staggering fire to avoid ghost-heat is scrub tier.

[Blue Pheonix]

El Bandito, on 11 October 2018 - 05:44 AM, said:

By simply holding down the mouse button you can fire UACs without jams (and without double tap). There is no macro in the world that allows you to double tap without jams. Just as there is no chain-fire macro that allows one to put out more DPS than simply alphaing everything.

Please watch this video.

Yes, Macros are giving an advantage that no manual player without them has (start watching video at 4:38 and pay close attention during this time. Also, pay close attention to what is being said at time period 7:10 in the video). Yes, they should be banned.

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 11 October 2018 - 09:03 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Blue Pheonix, on 11 October 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Please watch this video.

Yes, Macros are giving an advantage that no manual player without them has (start watching video at 4:38 and pay close attention during this time. Also, pay close attention to what is being said at time period 7:10 in the video). Yes, they should be banned.

Exactly what is that guy doing that actually offers him an advantage? Sure he's able to perfectly time his chain-fire shots to maximize DPS without jamming, but you can maximize DPS with no jams even better by just holding down the fire button and group-firing. You get the same long term DPS and superior short-term since all the shots come out at once, with the added bonus of having each shot land in the same component if you don't have to lead your target.

Or if you really want that style of chain-fire without jams, you can get roughly the same effect with standard AC5s and save 4 tons and 4 crit slots in the process. No macro required

[El Bandito]

^ What he said. The macro in that video did not offer a clear DPS advantage, since it still waited for the UAC5 to cooldown in order to fire again--which means there was no double tapping involved.

[VonBruinwald]

Kaeb Odellas, on 11 October 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

Exactly what is that guy doing that actually offers him an advantage? Sure he's able to perfectly time his chain-fire shots to maximize DPS without jamming, but you can maximize DPS with no jams even better by just holding down the fire button and group-firing. You get the same long term DPS and superior short-term since all the shots come out at once, with the added bonus of having each shot land in the same component if you don't have to lead your target.

You're comparing a sustained DPS to a burst DPS there. Same DPS, different effects.

With sustained DPS mistakes in aiming are more forgiving, you miss one shot, 5 more still land on target. With burst it's 6 or nothing. Psychologically that sustained DPS also has a greater effect on the target than burst DPS, with sustained fire a target is more prone to panic/seeking cover rather than engaging. Fractional damage is also beneficial for sustained DPS after the first volley, if you deal 30 damage and the target has 32HP a sustained DPS will finish that target off faster.

[Nightbird]

If you're using macros to turn Ultra ACs into regular ACs, go right ahead. Being dumb is not a crime.

[Kaeb Odellas]

VonBruinwald, on 11 October 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

You're comparing a sustained DPS to a burst DPS there. Same DPS, different effects.

With sustained DPS mistakes in aiming are more forgiving, you miss one shot, 5 more still land on target. With burst it's 6 or nothing. Psychologically that sustained DPS also has a greater effect on the target than burst DPS, with sustained fire a target is more prone to panic/seeking cover rather than engaging. Fractional damage is also beneficial for sustained DPS after the first volley, if you deal 30 damage and the target has 32HP a sustained DPS will finish that target off faster.

Chain-firing the AC5s gives my target the ability to spread damage around with defensive twisting. Group-firing means he's taking the first 20 points of damage in the location of my choosing.

And chain-firing is most certainly not going to finish off an your target faster than group-fire in your scenario there. Assuming no quirks and no-double taps, 4 AC5s/UAC5s will kill that target in 1.66 seconds. With a chain-fire macro like the one depicted in the video, that will take 2.49 seconds.

Really, the only reason to use chainfire is to maintain pressure against a vulnerable opponent when you're close to overheating, or as a means to maximize chances for a kill when the target is one hit with one weapon away from death.

[Xiphias]

Blue Pheonix, on 11 October 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Please watch this video.

Yes, Macros are giving an advantage that no manual player without them has (start watching video at 4:38 and pay close attention during this time. Also, pay close attention to what is being said at time period 7:10 in the video). Yes, they should be banned.

Question:
Do you think that it's disingenuous and deliberately misleading to post that video without also posting his part 2 video?


Pay close attention to what he says from 5:00 on.

Edited by Xiphias, 11 October 2018 - 05:42 PM.