46 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

the underhive special, the blunderbuss, the scatter gun, buckshot, lb-x. call it what you like. its a weapon that has a terrible reputation. totally anti-pro. so what good are they. ive always felt theve had their niche, but what that is was not immediately clear.

the most recent hero sale had me buy a legend killer. with it i had intended to make it a dual ac10 platform. but the quirks did not line up with that plan. i could get a lot more dps keeping the lb-10s. i did replace the large lasers with 4 med lasers and a lot of ammo and some fire rate modules. i recently threw it into my fp deck.

yesterday not once but twice i had used it to utterly decimate squirrel rushes. legging several and killing many others. one time i managed to take out 5 of the little buggers. i presume the crit chance was helping it take out lights better, especially ones that had some battle damage. the cycle time certainly helped and the ability to do partial damage vs an all or nothing blast of a normal autocannon. the time window in which to line up with a close in light is rather short so it helps that i at least tick it down a little vs my ammo getting wasted into the dirt. then it can go on and hold its own in a brawl with heavies and assaults because of its high dps and low heat.

so are they really useless?

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2016 - 11:44 PM.

[William Mountbank]

I hear they're good for getting assists?

[LordNothing]

winging an enemy is a good way to bloat your score. it also bloats your damage too since its less efficient way to kill. its also good in information denial situations where you cant identify a mech's weak points, so just hit everything instead and hope you get lucky. im going to start calling it a utility weapon, it does a lot of things, not any one particularly well, but it can do it and keep on doing it for a long time.

[4ries]

I have the urbanmechs and of them is the R63 I believe that has the lbx10. I ran this mech for one game and i found the lbx10 rather lackluster on that urbanmech. Mainly because the lbx spreads its damage all over the target.
Also the urbanmech doesnt have the weapons to core an enemy mech and to take advantage of that with the lbx.
Limited ammo count is also a reason, you just cant fire all your ammo at a target in the hopes of coring it with the Urbie.

Perhpas i will use the lbx10 on another chassis that does has the weapons to reliably damage a mech. Dont know what mech i should get though...

And no I wont get the jagermech or the rifleman... i want something different...

[Cy Mitchell]

I have found that a fairly quick Medium with LBX, SPL and MG makes for a pretty nice Light Mech killer. Just stay out of the sights of enemy Assaults and Heavies. I hang out around the Assaults on my team and wait for the Lights to come hunting. They go down easy. It also works well at the end of the match when the Oxides and Jenner II-C come a'callin for clean-up duty on your last Heavy if you are there waiting for them with the Heavy. Unfortunately, the load out is pretty situational and you have to really pick and chose your fights to survive long enough to fill those two roles.

[Bud Crue]

Effective? Only way I have seen them be truly effective is if you play like a bit of a d-bag and hold off engaging until near the end of the match wherein you are nearly fresh and playing against opponents who are all severely damaged.

To wit: there is a fellow who I have seen a couple of times now who runs an Atlas DDC with a shotgun build. He hides until the rest of the team is dead or nearly so. If he gets lucky, and his fellows have done a good job hitting the enemy (though obviously not a good enough job to have won without him) he waits until the end of the match and the surviving reds are really messed up, then comes out of hiding and cleans house. The LBXs (and SRMS) do a great job of blowing off legs and criting components. Saw this guy finish up 6 mechs with out much effort doing this. Lame? Yes. Effective? Perhaps.

In any case, I personally like LBX, but I treat them like small lasers. I try to get in REALLY close and then blast away. Using them at range is just a waste of ammo. Up close and chain firing them (2-4) sounds great and makes many a player run away. If you are doing this with a murder ball, you might just help out with a well timed crit.
Panther running an LBX is laugh out loud fun. Effective? Who cares.

Edited by Bud Crue, 08 June 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[Rhaythe]

LBX's sound awesome. I dunno. I had success with them on my Jager, but that was back when everybody was piloting assaults and the heavy queues weren't clogged up like a Taco Bell toilet.

[Morggo]

I've been a solid fan since I switched to the LB10 a month or so back, and run dual lb's on my MAD-3R to the point it's about the only MAD I run any more. Not sure if it's because I run two or use them mostly to brawl with but it's what I turn to on a night things aren't going well and I just need to "reset" and get some high damage and kills. Thing just shreds mechs. Seriously.

But, I do agree it works best as a conditional weapon... I focus on finding opened mechs and la into them in he 150m-ish range and they drop pretty darn fast. Slamming a Dire in the front armour with lb10's... yeah you're in for a long wait agreed but lights, selective targeting of open mech components, or rear armour and they are fantastic weapon systems (again, maybe due to my dual loadout).

Second data point I can offer, the wife recently was about to toss out her legend killer but watched my MAD LB. She went back to dual lb's on it... first 5 games she wrecked.. way above her average on kills, assists, and damage. So, perhaps the two of us are just two coincidental success data points but I remain a big fan. YMMV.

[D V Devnull]

LordNothing, I can tell you the LB-X's are not useless. I've seen many people kill with them, even at long ranges where I thought it not possible. So I will also probably want to develop a build with some at a random point in the future.


As for this...

4ries, on 08 June 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

Perhpas i will use the lbx10 on another chassis that does has the weapons to reliably damage a mech. Dont know what mech i should get though...

And no I wont get the jagermech or the rifleman... i want something different...

Try a Catapult CPLT-K2, then? It has Ballistic HardPoints, and at least some usable quirks.

Just watch out for being stuck using an XL engine to fit two 'LB 10-X' + 6 tons ammo, 2 Med. Lasers, AMS + 1 ton ammo, and some other useful things.

~D. V. "Just a random idea..." Devnull

[The Lobsters]

I would usually choose LBX's over other AC's. Out to 150-200m they have no problem hitting single components on larger mechs and with lights the spread is beneficial. Past 200m they work well for suppression. If I want more damage I just need to MAN UP AND PUSH........PUSHGODDAMNIT!!!!!

Honestly, I've never understood the need for ER Large lasers on a build. If I'm fighting at ERLL ranges I'm being a coward.

[Rhaythe]

The Lobsters, on 08 June 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

Honestly, I've never understood the need for ER Large lasers on a build. If I'm fighting at ERLL ranges I'm being a coward.

My Locust 1V nods in agreement. Total agreement. I'm sure as hell not pushing in that mech. O_o

[Hit the Deck]

Bud Crue, on 08 June 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

To wit: there is a fellow who I have seen a couple of times now who runs an Atlas DDC with a shotgun build. He hides until the rest of the team is dead or nearly so. If he gets lucky, and his fellows have done a good job hitting the enemy (though obviously not a good enough job to have won without him) he waits until the end of the match and the surviving reds are really messed up, then comes out of hiding and cleans house. The LBXs (and SRMS) do a great job of blowing off legs and criting components. Saw this guy finish up 6 mechs with out much effort doing this. Lame? Yes. Effective? Perhaps.

That's not lame because it's one way to play a slow durable brawler like the Atlas. You wait in hiding until the opportunity presents itself. Sometimes, it only appears near the end of the match especially if your teammates don't play the pushing game.

[Bud Crue]

Hit the Deck, on 08 June 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

That's not lame because it's one way to play a slow durable brawler like the Atlas. You wait in hiding until the opportunity presents itself. Sometimes, it only appears near the end of the match especially if your teammates don't play the pushing game.

To each his own I suppose. To me it is too situational to be considered a good tactic. I mean yes if the rest of your team does a good enough job reducing the enemy down so that your sole hiding mech can come clean up then great. But would your team not be better served most of the time, in most circumstances if rather then you hiding you were part of the actual fight? If the rest of your team going 11-12 ends up getting wrecked, and you and your guns and armor might have prevented that by acting as part of the team, as part of a push, then it seems to me that by hiding all you did was cost the team the match for the mere possibility that you might get to try and come save the day after all the rest of the fighting is done. To me that seems kind of lame.

[Dashia]

I like the weapon. like already mentioned it works good at knife range still spreads but 100m it still hurts and for a 10 DMG ac the fire rate is awesome. Ran one on a SHD2D2 once and it worked great for assist and assault back up roles.
the range is a curs and a tool. has no DMG at 800m but you can still hit someone. The simple fact that some gets hit and a little shake from a LBX at 800m usually makes them put their head but behind that hill.

The best part is when you happen to get a kill with it. the LOLZ when ppl rage about the finale blow from the "crap LBX".

[wanderer]

A spread weapon is always going to be less effective than a pinpoint one. Period. Every point of damage you waste on a non-vital target may mean a higher damage total, but you'll get less kill for the bill.

Heck, as a rule of thumb I take whatever damage I toss lurmboating and knock a third off for the actual useful damage result. You're still better off aiming better and nailing someone with an AC/10 than spraying them with an LB-10X. Or lasers, for that matter. Streaks are spread, but they kill lights simply by spraying them with so much damage something is bound to break in a reasonable amount of time (though not mediums or bigger, where it's better to aim.).

[Hit the Deck]

wanderer, on 08 June 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

A spread weapon is always going to be less effective than a pinpoint one. Period.

Not really. the heavier LB-X pellets already travel faster. We could adjust some more variables in the files if needed.

[wanderer]

Math is apparently hard.

Let's try this. Which kills better: 10 damage to the location that will kill the target, or spreading 10 damage across 3-4 or more locations including the one that kills it?

The only case where an LB-X is useful is when your aim is so bad that you wouldn't hit the target without it.

[Haipyng]

The funny thing is MWO is a team based game, except everyone always treats it as a Deathmatch game, no matter the map type. Most kills with pin point damage is the only measure of your worth.

Frankly with the number of aim bots or cheats floating around to me means that doesn't count for anything. If using an lbx weapon is fun for you and you are assisting your team (legging lights or whatever) go for it. The measure of your value to the team doesn't always come up in numbers or is reflected in rewards.

A NARC ninja is usually appreciated by anyone with LRMs, scouts are invaluable for locating massed enemy's, capping, or running down other lights, sometimes it just being the one that leads a push.

[LordNothing]

D V Devnull, on 08 June 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

LordNothing, I can tell you the LB-X's are not useless. I've seen many people kill with them, even at long ranges where I thought it not possible. So I will also probably want to develop a build with some at a random point in the future. As for this... Try a Catapult CPLT-K2, then? It has Ballistic HardPoints, and at least some usable quirks. Just watch out for being stuck using an XL engine to fit two 'LB 10-X' + 6 tons ammo, 2 Med. Lasers, AMS + 1 ton ammo, and some other useful things. ~D. V. "Just a random idea..." Devnull

that was a fun build way back when (before the quirks got nerfed). mad rate of fire. i think i ran it with 4 meds and no ams (i prefer other means of lerm disposal), its generally good practice to match your ballistics firepower in lasers. then stop using lasers when your heat is above 75%. ballistics mechs that never overheat are fine and dandy but since you have to carry 10 tons of heat sinks as per build rules, you might as well use them.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[TercieI]

Rampage, on 08 June 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

I have found that a fairly quick Medium with LBX, SPL and MG makes for a pretty nice Light Mech killer. Just stay out of the sights of enemy Assaults and Heavies. I hang out around the Assaults on my team and wait for the Lights to come hunting. They go down easy. It also works well at the end of the match when the Oxides and Jenner II-C come a'callin for clean-up duty on your last Heavy if you are there waiting for them with the Heavy. Unfortunately, the load out is pretty situational and you have to really pick and chose your fights to survive long enough to fill those two roles.

As a light pilot, I love it when somebody tries to take me down with an LBX weapon and scatters damage all over (and around me). I'm way, way more scared of somebody with a regular ballistic and aim.