62 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

The rescale has the potential to shake things up a bit. For fun, what are your predictions? I was thinking about this the other day, so hey, why not: here's a mech-by-mech break down of what I think is going to happen. Let's see how many I get right and how many I'm completely wrong about.


Lights: I heard somebody that Russ tweeted saying that most of the lights were underscaled except for the Kitfox and Adder. So going off of that...

Locust: Russ tweeted that the Locust was overscaled by a surprising amount. I don't know what metric they are using that determined this, but that leads me to not trust it. They might leave the Locust as is because it is already quite small, or they might shrink it. If they shrink it and leave the quirks as-is, then the Locust will finally be in a good place I think. But if they reduce the quirks to compensate, then I'm afraid they could overdo it and the Locust will be worse off. I'm crossing my fingers.

Commando: I expect the Commando to be unchanged.

Mist Lynx: I expect this to be unchanged.

Urbanmech: I expect them to make the Urbanmech larger. They probably won't adjust the quirks, so it will be a straight up nerf.

Spider: I expect them to make the Spider larger. Even if they do adjust the quirks, I expect this to be a straight up nerf.

Kitfox: I expect them to shrink this mech slightly, and it will hardly make a difference.

Arctic Cheetah: it will probably become slightly larger, but make no real difference.

Adder: I wouldn't be surprised if the Adder remains relatively unchanged.

Firestarter: this mech will become slightly larger, quirks will not be adjusted.

Raven: this mech will probably go unchanged.

Wolfhound and Panther: these two will be made larger to match the Adder and new Firestarter, and I expect that PGI won't boost the quirks enough to make up for it. The Raven will remain as the best ranged light and the Firestarter will pull ahead of the Wolfhound because it has better hitboxes and shield arms.

Jenner: this mech will become considerable larger, to about the size of the present day Kitfox. The Oxide will finally be balanced by this, but all the others will suffer immensely.

Jenner IIC: this mech will be made slightly larger, and the IIC variant will now mostly likely far outclass the Oxide.




Mediums: the 50-ton mechs will see the biggest changes, the 40-45 won't be changed much, and the 55 will only get marginally smaller

Cicada: this mech will be shrinked to be slightly larger than the present day Adder. It will be in a good place if PGI does not adjust the quirks, but if PGI nerfs the quirks I expect it to be a straight up nerf to the Cicada.

Dragonfly: it's not released yet, but I expect this mech, like the Cicada, to be between the size of the present day Adder and Crab. It will be a good little mech, and probably will release with very light quirks.

Ice Ferret: this mech will be shrinked very slightly, but it won't make a difference in performance. Even if PGI reduced the quirks as well... I think it will remain unaffected. It will simply be replaced by the Dragonfly in competitive play (and we might see more Cicadas).

Blackjack: this mech will be made slightly larger. PGI might buff it's quirks too much to make up for it, and will become the stand-out best medium again. If they were smart they would leave the quirks alone. If they were smarter, they wouldn't make the mech larger in the first place, but I expect they will.

Vindicator: this will become a bit smaller, but it won't make a very big difference because it still has terrible hardpoints. If PGI nerfs its quirks because it's smaller, than they've lost their mind and I'm going to break my silence on twitter to tell them how idiotic they are.

Phoenix Hawk: this mech will be the same as the Vindicator (except with more hardpoints, so at least not terrible.) and IMO slightly overscaled.

Shadow Cat: probably will not be changed.

Crab: it's going to get noticeable larger, and changes to the quirks won't make up for it. It will go from being a minimally competitively viable mech straight to the trash heap.

Hunchback: it will go unchanged.

Hunchback IIC: probably unchanged, but it might shrink by a tiny bit even though it doesn't deserve the buff.

Trebuchet: this will become slightly smaller, but not enough to make up for its terrible hitboxes. It will still be a terrible mech except for those rare MRBC drop 1 matches where it's the only ranged mech on the field with jumpjets and fully articulated weapons. \o/

Centurion: like the Treb, it will become a little smaller. It might be enough enough to make a slight difference, but not enough to make this a competitively viable mech. If PGI were smart they were remodel it slightly to make it thinner like the TRO art, but I somehow doubt they will go through the trouble.

Enforcer: this mech will probably be pretty much unchanged.

Nova: it becomes noticeably smaller, it's quirks will be reduced slightly, and it might become one of the best brawling mediums in the game.

Kintaro: it might get a slight shrink, but it won't make a difference.

Griffin: it will get a noticeable shrink, it will probably have it's structure quirks slightly reduced, and it will be worse off.

Shadowhawk: I'm expecting a shrink, and as long as PGI doesn't nerf the quirks too much, this will become a better mech as a result of the change and might see some competitive play again as people feel it out.

Wolverine: It's going to become slightly smaller, but not enough to make any appreciable difference. It might become popular for a month again while people feel it out before they give it up again.

Stormcrow: I'm expecting virtually no change.





Heavy mechs: we won't see many changes here, just tweaks to outlying mechs.


Dragon: it will become noticeably smaller, but not enough to make a difference in performance. People will try it out for a couple weeks before remember how underwhelming it is without ridiculous quirks.

Quickdraw: it will become noticeably smaller and lose some of its structure bonuses. It won't change in performance at all.

Rifleman: this won't change a lick.

Maddog: will become slightly smaller, but hardly noticeable.

Catapult: this will become noticeably smaller and we've seen images that it has been completely remodeled. I expect to see a lot of these running around for the next month as people begin to realise they aren't terrible - especially the A1, K2, and Butterbee.

Thunderbolt: these will become slightly smaller, but won't become popular again.

Jagermech: almost unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller.

Cauldron Born: almost unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller.

Hellbringer: probably unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller.

Cataphract: this won't be changed much, despite deserving a model adjustment.

Grasshopper: it's underscaled, but really friggin' tall, so they'll just make a model adjustment. It will become fatter, and the wider hitboxes will drive more people toward the Black Knight and Warhammer.

Warhammer: unchanged.

Archer: unchanged.

Summoner: unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller. Won't make a difference.

Night Gyr: people will complain about how slow it torso twists and that it has big vulnerable hitboxes.

Black Knight: relatively unchanged, maybe slightly larger, won't make a difference.

Marauder: unchanged, if not slightly smaller, won't make a difference.

Orion: unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller.

Orion IIC: slightly smaller, won't make a difference, still terrible.

Timber Wolf: probably unchanged.





Assaults: these are where scale differences will have the least effect, because these mechs are already so large and slow that the changes won't really matter for performance and will only affect aesthetic.

Zeus: one of only two mechs that will see a big enough change to affect performance. This mech will get larger and nobody will ever pilot again until it receives significant quirk buffs.

Awesome: the other of two mechs, this will have its model adjusted to be slimmer and made slightly smaller overall. Unless PGI nerfs the quirks noticeably, expect to see a lot of these running around as people rediscover how fun PPCs can be with 50% velocity quirks and significant heat gen.

Victor: will become noticeably smaller, and you'll see a lot of them running around until people remember why Victors are lousy in this meta.

Gargoyle: slightly smaller, but won't make much difference.

Battlemaster: probably unchanged.

Stalker: probably unchanged.

Warhawk: noticeably smaller, might become marginally popular for a little while.

Mauler: might become slightly larger, and it won't make a difference.

Highlander: probably unchanged, if not ever so slightly smaller.

Highlander IIC: same as above; still mostly terrible.

Banshee: probably stays the same.

Executioner: might stay the same or get ever so slightly larger.

Atlas: might stay the same or get ever so slightly larger.

King Crab: might stay the same or get ever so slightly larger.

Direwolf: gets slightly smaller, won't make a difference.

Kodiak: unchanged. Still the best mech in the game.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Cuz none of the big *** assaults need to get any bigger. Atlas is already HUGE. Mauler is gigantic as well. All the huge assaults are all gargantuan, why do they need to be bigger? I sure hope those predictions are wrong. As for the Warhawk and Dire Wolf, they dont need to get slightly smaller, they need to get quite a bit smaller. Atlas is 15m tall, Warhawk and Dire Wolf are like 12m tall, so, yeah, thats almost 10 feet shorter.

The sheer size of the Warhawk and Dire Wolf's torsos is the biggest problem, they took the whole "house on legs" about 5 steps to far for both of them.

Mad Dog, it to should be quite a bit shorter, with it's legs being more arched, making it more hunched over and shorter. Timber Wolf should get the same, more hunched over look. All the Clan mechs, if done right, would be about the same height.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 08 June 2016 - 04:18 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Wow, excellent post. Only a few that I am not sure I understand:

Firestarter: Seems like it is fairly large already relative to the other 35 tonners yet you expect it to get larger? I assume my perception here is incorrect.

Griffin and Quickdraw: I fear that if they are reduced in size as much as is expected, PGI will significantly reduce or even eliminate much of their structural quirks. I expect this to severely reduce the effectiveness of the Quickdraw (more than the Griffin, but still). I just remember trying to play both on the last test server with no quirks and they both felt so fragile as to be near unplayable. I realize that they were both at their present size at the time, but reducing their quirks regardless of profile/size seems like they will be more negatively affected than what you appear to believe (that's my fear anyway).

[Mcgral18]

Now I kinda want to make a picture...but that's too much effort

Scene: SadCat staring up at the stars:
"Father, why have you forsaken me?"

Paul, speaking from the heavens:
"Because you're sh!t"


Get it, because Scat?


That's my expectation for the SadCat...nothing of note (see my previous 45 tonner comparison)

[cazidin]

Bud Crue, on 08 June 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Wow, excellent post. Only a few that I am not sure I understand:

Firestarter: Seems like it is fairly large already relative to the other 35 tonners yet you expect it to get larger? I assume my perception here is incorrect.

Griffin and Quickdraw: I fear that if they are reduced in size as much as is expected, PGI will significantly reduce or even eliminate much of their structural quirks. I expect this to severely reduce the effectiveness of the Quickdraw (more than the Griffin, but still). I just remember trying to play both on the last test server with no quirks and they both felt so fragile as to be near unplayable. I realize that they were both at their present size at the time, but reducing their quirks regardless of profile/size seems like they will be more negatively affected than what you appear to believe (that's my fear anyway).

Isn't the Griffin a strong mech though? Without quirks she'll still be effective because of her hard points and geometry.

[Tarogato]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 June 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

Cuz none of the big *** assaults need to get any bigger. Atlas is already HUGE. Mauler is gigantic as well. All the huge assaults are all gargantuan, why do they need to be bigger? I sure hope those predictions are wrong. As for the Warhawk and Dire Wolf, they dont need to get slightly smaller, they need to get quite a bit smaller. Atlas is 15m tall, Warhawk and Dire Wolf are like 12m tall, so, yeah, thats almost 10 feet shorter.

The sheer size of the Warhawk and Dire Wolf's torsos is the biggest problem, they took the whole "house on legs" about 5 steps to far for both of them.

Agreed. If I made this post as "what I hope will happen with the rescale", it would be quite a bit different.

Quote

Mad Dog, it to should be quite a bit shorter, with it's legs being more arched, making it more hunched over and shorter. Timber Wolf should get the same, more hunched over look. All the Clan mechs, if done right, would be about the same height.

Agreed. Mad Dog and Cauldron Born could both stand to have their legs bent a little more. I would say the Timber as well, but not as much.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Tarogato, on 08 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

Agreed. If I made this post as "what I hope will happen with the rescale", it would be quite a bit different.





Agreed. Mad Dog and Cauldron Born could both stand to have their legs bent a little more. I would say the Timber as well, but not as much.

id say the same, since the Timby and MDD use the same legs....

[LT. HARDCASE]

Outside of the Nova, Catapult, and Dragon, they make very few smart decisions. Many already marginal mechs (think Crab, Enforrcer, Zeus, Grasshopper) get larger and disappear from the field entirely. Many of the worst offenders for being oversized (think Vindicator, Trebuchet, Quickdraw, Kit Fox) see little to no change at all.

p.s. - they don't touch the 55 tonners at all

[Bud Crue]

cazidin, on 08 June 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Isn't the Griffin a strong mech though? Without quirks she'll still be effective because of her hard points and geometry.

I think the Griffin is strong (as compered to others near its weight) because it does have good quirks and its an SRM boat (at least how it is typically built). Eliminate those quirks (and that is my fear) and it becomes an over sized and slow Oxide. To give it more survivability and twist it will need a large XL (as is often the case now) and those STs are going to feel like egg shells and it will die a lot quicker, even if it is a bit smaller. I hope I am wrong though, and the changes feel minor.

[Troutmonkey]

If they touch my Stalker there will be riots. RIOTS I tell ye!

[ScarecrowES]

Russ has said that the Mad Dog was pretty close to correct volume, but said they were revisiting the idea of squatting the legs more to compensate. So all hope is not lost.

Both the Dire Wolf and Warhawk need to shrink by about 8%, BUT PGI has said they don't want to reduce overall dimensions for those mechs... so expect some love to the torsos. If they can skinny up the Warhawk torsos and move the forearms up to normal placement, expect the WH to be a far better mech. If it ever gets the F variant, it might even be top tier

[LT. HARDCASE]

Only the GRF-3M even has structure quirks worth mentioning, while the other have been pretty good without them.

I'd take a smaller size any day, which is a worthless convo because it ain't getting any smaller.

[Bud Crue]

LT. HARDCASE, on 08 June 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Only the GRF-3M even has structure quirks worth mentioning, while the other have been pretty good without them.

I'd take a smaller size any day, which is a worthless convo because it ain't getting any smaller.

Yes the 3M is the concern I suppose. But that is thee mech (for a lot of us) for scout mode. I just hope it can still handle going toe to toe with the streakcrows without those structure quircks (assuming it looses them). In that combat environment (scout mode) I don't think it being slightly smaller is going to help or offset the loss of structure (again assuming it looses the quirks).

[oldradagast]

Spot on.

Reduced number of viable mechs, yet more examples of people buying one thing and getting another after the mech grows, and a lot of wasted effort without a bit of reason involved. I think the Nova and Catapult are the only mechs that will really benefit. The Awesome is still junk, even if it is the right size - and it will probably lose its quirks because it's the right size - while other decent mechs, such as the Grasshopper and Zeus, will be made larger and thus turned to trash.

[Hit the Deck]

Tarogato, on 08 June 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Locust: Russ tweeted that the Locust was overscaled by a surprising amount. I don't know what metric they are using that determined this, but that leads me to not trust it....

Well, the scaling method is volumetric or mass relative to the to volume. They might have a reference 'Mech which volume (size) is taken as correct, say, an Atlas for example and then adjust everything else to it

[Moldur]

Most of those made sense, though I suppose we can't fully anticipate what PGI's design philosophy/ baseline logic will actually bring, whether it bring majority increase/decrease or unchanged save for a few as your post suggests.

Depending on that, the rescale might turn the entire game upside down, rather than be slightly adjusted from the current. Once again, I think these predictions are pretty good, but I have some reservation about PGI not doing something bizarre.

[LordKnightFandragon]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Russ has said that the Mad Dog was pretty close to correct volume, but said they were revisiting the idea of squatting the legs more to compensate. So all hope is not lost.

Both the Dire Wolf and Warhawk need to shrink by about 8%, BUT PGI has said they don't want to reduce overall dimensions for those mechs... so expect some love to the torsos. If they can skinny up the Warhawk torsos and move the forearms up to normal placement, expect the WH to be a far better mech. If it ever gets the F variant, it might even be top tier

The Warhawk is going to look odd as hell if given the Mad Dog treatment, a skinny *** tall mech with high mounted arms, its gunna look like a Rifleman put through a press....

[Bishop Steiner]

my only prediction is that regardless of what actually happens, the Forums will QQ.... and the Quirks will still be decided by Paul's Dartboard of Destiny.

You're very much welcome.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 June 2016 - 06:53 PM.

[Volthorne]

Some of the predictions in the OP - specifically in the Medium category - are so hilariously bad that I would put money down on them being wrong, and not a small amount either.

[Thorqemada]

Oh, probably OP laid out a way to get pleasantly surprised when "Rescales" appear in the "wild".

Edited by Thorqemada, 08 June 2016 - 07:00 PM.