90 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 09 June 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Using a Bot application to carry out gameplay actions without user participation.

But what if I programmed the AI that fought according to my orders given via speech (i.e. MechCommander)?

Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

If you could somehow design a function that does this without injecting code and/or modifying game files, then yes, you could technically do it and be 100% in the clear according to the CoC.

Ooohhhh! It looks like you answered my question.

Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

Of course, this really isn't possible due to the fact you can't create something to automate aim without pulling information from the game itself. At some point you're either modifying game files or injecting code, both of which are against CoC.

That's what screen grabbers, video recorders, and cameras are for.

Hasn't anyone here encountered the Jeremiah Project or similar setups? I'm disappointed.

Edited by Mystere, 09 June 2016 - 04:58 PM.

[crashlogic]

My take is that macros are akin to cheating. PGI allows them so they are legal. I just don't think they should be.

[Wintersdark]

crashlogic, on 09 June 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

My take is that macros are akin to cheating. PGI allows them so they are legal. I just don't think they should be.

I suppose you also feel my foot pedals are cheating? They use third party software too!

[Xetelian]

Macros can be used to fire things without incurring ghost heat, right?
Macros can be used to fire gauss at the exact moment it fills, right?

Two things a human's hands cannot accomplish reliably without years and years of training or in some cases ever.

This is cheating. Just because MWO doesn't ban you for it doesn't mean it suddenly isn't cheating.

Anyone in the Tournament using the Gauss macro?

Edited by Xetelian, 09 June 2016 - 05:11 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Xetelian, on 09 June 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Macros can be used to fire things without incurring ghost heat, right?
Macros can be used to fire gauss at the exact moment it fills, right?

Two things a human's hands cannot accomplish reliably without years and years of training or in some cases ever.

This is cheating. Just because MWO doesn't ban you for it doesn't mean it suddenly isn't cheating.

Anyone in the Tournament using the Gauss macro?

Macros cannot avoid Ghost Heat; they suffer from it exactly as manually.

Gauss can fire as soon as it's charged, but that isn't an advantage. You're always better off firing when you have a good shot. Pressing a button to charge then fire instantly is fundamentally identical to having your gauss rifles behave like the old ballistics did when they had a lag bug (they'd fire a fraction of a second after you pressed the fire button). That isn't advantageous, it makes making good shots harder.

You're way, way better off releasing the shot when the moment is right (or NOT releasing it, because after the charge is ready it's entirely possible you don't have a shot at all anymore).

I'd eat my socks if anyone in the tournament (that is, after the useless bads are weeded out) uses a gauss charge macro.

For gods sake, Gauss macros are bad, they make you play worse.

[Moldur]

Wintersdark, on 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

One final point:
Macros being allowed does offer some people a huge advantage.

Disabled people.

Not everyone can work lots of inputs and keybinds. Without macros, disabled people in many cases would be unable to play at all. Macros allow combining functions, and interfacing with custom controllers.

This is a huge point. I am sure not everyone using macros falls into that category. Still, in my opinion- using this angle to advocate macros- the benefits outweigh the potential cost and it is an easy argument to make.

Mystere, on 09 June 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

But what if I programmed the AI that fought according to my orders given via speech (i.e. MechCommander)?




Ooohhhh! It looks like you answered my question.




That's what screen grabbers, video recorders, and cameras are for.

Hasn't anyone here encountered the Jeremiah Project or similar setups? I'm disappointed.

In a vacuum, that is actually quite an interesting train of thoughts to follow. The way I understand CoC, macros and scripts can't just react to things in the game; they need a human input to initiate. However, what if it was something like human input to "automatically" return fire at the guy that shot you with a ppc or something. Just a hypothetical.

[Bishop Steiner]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 09 June 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

So I kinda just found out that some people (even youtubers) use these third party macro thingies. What are your opinion on these? Are they even legal?

don't care.

makes life easier when you don't.

[jjm1]

Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

If you could somehow design a function that does this without injecting code and/or modifying game files, then yes, you could technically do it and be 100% in the clear according to the CoC.

Of course, this really isn't possible due to the fact you can't create something to automate aim without pulling information from the game itself. At some point you're either modifying game files or injecting code, both of which are against CoC.

You could build a button mashing robot to sit in your chair and move the mouse at random intervals. I believe lots of MWO players have already done this.

[crashlogic]

Wintersdark, on 09 June 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

I suppose you also feel my foot pedals are cheating? They use third party software too!

My beef isn't third party software, my beef is macros automate tasks with little corresponding cost. For example LRMS automate the aiming process, but they have enough associated drawbacks to render them largely useless to most players. Macros just improve your twitch without having any drawback.
Your foot pedal or joystick/throttle combo, reproduces your input (and given the overall FPS nature of the game does not help nearly as much as it would in a simulator). Thus your foot pedal is not an issue for me. Chain firing lasers automatically to avoid heat is. Heat is something you have to think about, and is something you have to make compromises on. Macro's circumvent this.

[crashlogic]

Revis Volek, on 09 June 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

This as well....


But i DO think PGI should allow EVERYONE (as in a GAME MECHANIC) to TOGGLE FIRE GROUPS of weapons and not just eh weapons in the groups. The only way to achieve that right now is by using MACROS.


This should just be part of the mechlab and weapon groups options IMO.

This...

[MrJeffers]

crashlogic, on 13 June 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

My beef isn't third party software, my beef is macros automate tasks with little corresponding cost. For example LRMS automate the aiming process, but they have enough associated drawbacks to render them largely useless to most players. Macros just improve your twitch without having any drawback.

Not true, every fire control macro has a drawback and that is why they are not used much if at all in comp play.

Quote

Your foot pedal or joystick/throttle combo, reproduces your input (and given the overall FPS nature of the game does not help nearly as much as it would in a simulator). Thus your foot pedal is not an issue for me. Chain firing lasers automatically to avoid heat is. Heat is something you have to think about, and is something you have to make compromises on. Macro's circumvent this.

Macros don't have any logic, so when you click that fire 6 C-LPL macro off on your DW, you're firing 6, even if mid stream of the first 2 your teammates all move into your line of fire and block your shots. You're now firing off 4 more either into the air or in your teammates back, neither of which is good because you just ate all that heat for no reason whatsoever.

Macros offer convenience with draw backs, and in most cases the drawbacks outweigh the gains. This is especially true of the Gauss macro.