59 replies to this topic

[DarthHias]

MookieDog, on 10 June 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Archer-5S anyone? Better hit boxes, lower profile, doesn't cost as much, extra missile launcher, higher laser points- center torso/head (awesome for TAG), MUCH better range of motion..

Ugh I hate to break it to you, but Archers have neither good hit boxes nor a low profile. They have "Free kill" written on them.

[Satan n stuff]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

(...)

What do you think?

I think the artist who edited that screenshot needs to learn a few things about contrast and opacity.

[627]

just a guess but maybe all cat ears will now have 35 tubes, no matter what you build in. No more dynamic textures?

If not, I can't wait for the A1 with its lrm90, that'll look ridiculous if it scales. Biggest question will be, what will be shown if you don't bring missiles at all?

However, can't wait. That thing is enough reason to play again since some months

Edited by 627, 12 June 2016 - 03:03 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

SOL Ranger, on 11 June 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

To be honest, since they already showed us the CPLT with the new weapon geometry and there was zero signs of hardpoint inflation, I'm pretty sure PGI figures they've spent enough time working on the CPLT model from 2012. They probably don't want to spend even more money updating it, just as a gesture of good will towards old players.

627, on 12 June 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

just a guess but maybe all cat ears will now have 35 tubes, no matter what you build in. No more dynamic textures?
If not, I can't wait for the A1 with its lrm90, that'll look ridiculous if it scales. Biggest question will be, what will be shown if you don't bring missiles at all?
However, can't wait. That thing is enough reason to play again since some months

My guess is that the textures will be dynamic but the size of the boxes may not be. It's possible that there are two sizes for the missile boxes, but the safe bet is that the box size is static and the textures depend on what kind of missiles you insert.
I think the missile box is 15+10+10 tubes for the A1 boxes (stock 2xLRM15), and 20+20 tubes for the C4 boxes (stock 2xLRM20). So a C4 could potentially fire 4x20 LRMs in a single salvo if you were a crazy person. And the A1 could potentially fire 2xLRM15 + 4xLRM10 in a single salvo.

I am worried that a single LRM15 on the CPLT-C1 will leave a lot of unused space for where hardpoints would otherwise be on the C4. However, you will note that the Mauler has two different sizes for missile boxes on its side torso. There's the small boxes for SRM6's, and the big boxes for LRM15's. So hopefully the CPLT will have 2 different box sizes too, with corresponding textures, just like the Mauler does.

[Bishop Steiner]

627, on 12 June 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

Biggest question will be, what will be shown if you don't bring missiles at all?

empty space...wasn't that their justification for it's huge size in the first place?

[Wintersdark]

627, on 12 June 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

just a guess but maybe all cat ears will now have 35 tubes, no matter what you build in. No more dynamic textures?

If not, I can't wait for the A1 with its lrm90, that'll look ridiculous if it scales. Biggest question will be, what will be shown if you don't bring missiles at all?

However, can't wait. That thing is enough reason to play again since some months

There will be no extra missile VCR's. Russ covered that some time ago.

The boxes are fixed size, so you'll just have denser tubes inside when necessary as per Clan mech launchers.

[davoodoo]

Anyone checked quirks on this thing??

No missile cooldown, no laser duration, only missile velocity.
It wont be lrm boat thats for sure.

So whats left?? srm brawling, which we get mech which is pretty small, but cant use arms as shield unlike archer-5s which got some minor dps quirks and stronger structure quirks on top of better acceleration quirks.

I just cant see this thing being very popular, not until we get mrm.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 June 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[Wintersdark]

davoodoo, on 12 June 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

Anyone checked quirks on this thing??

No missile cooldown, no laser duration, only missile velocity.
It wont be lrm boat thats for sure.

So whats left?? srm brawling, which we get mech which is pretty small, but cant use arms as shield unlike archer-5s which got some minor dps quirks and stronger structure quirks on top of better acceleration quirks.

I just cant see this thing being very popular, not until we get mrm.

Can't use shield arms? Those boxes aren't small.

The Archer has slightly better quirks, but is substantially larger physically, and while it has arms, it has that terrible archer shape that dooms it brawling - easy to pick out ST's and such. The (new) catapult torso is much more compact and smoother, it'll be really easy to spread damage around. With 4 torso lasers, the SRM's in the ears, I think it'll be quite effective. Moreso in a brawl than the easily ST clipped Archer.

[Bishop Steiner]

davoodoo, on 12 June 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

Anyone checked quirks on this thing??

No missile cooldown, no laser duration, only missile velocity.
It wont be lrm boat thats for sure.

So whats left?? srm brawling, which we get mech which is pretty small, but cant use arms as shield unlike archer-5s which got some minor dps quirks and stronger structure quirks on top of better acceleration quirks.

I just cant see this thing being very popular, not until we get mrm.

Archer 5S is a mediocre brawler itself, and it's arms are laughably bad shields. You gotta be playing against bad shots if they are hitting your arms.

[davoodoo]

Wintersdark, on 12 June 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

Can't use shield arms? Those boxes aren't small.

The Archer has slightly better quirks, but is substantially larger physically, and while it has arms, it has that terrible archer shape that dooms it brawling - easy to pick out ST's and such. The (new) catapult torso is much more compact and smoother, it'll be really easy to spread damage around. With 4 torso lasers, the SRM's in the ears, I think it'll be quite effective. Moreso in a brawl than the easily ST clipped Archer.

Torso sticks out too much on catapult, even if you put your side perfectly everyone can easily shoot at torso.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 June 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

davoodoo, on 12 June 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Torso sticks out too much on catapult, even if you put your side perfectly everyone can easily shoot at torso.

which is the same it's always been. you don't use arms to block in CPLTs, unless you got some real bad shots out there. In fact, if you want to spread dmg on a CPLT, you essentially stare and just shake your head a bit to spread it to all 3 torso.

Now go look at some nice Archer pics. Guess what other mech doesn't use it's arms to block pretty much ANYTHING?

Out of the two...guess which has a much better track record as a splatmech....and that is even with it the size of an Assault Mech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 June 2016 - 06:22 AM.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 June 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

which is the same it's always been. you don't use arms to block in CPLTs, unless you got some real bad shots out there. In fact, if you want to spread dmg on a CPLT, you essentially stare and just shake your head a bit to spread it to all 3 torso.

Now go look at some nice Archer pics. Guess what other mech doesn't use it's arms to block pretty much ANYTHING?

Out of the two...guess which has a much better track record as a splatmech....and that is even with it the size of an Assault Mech.

The answer, of course, is the Mad Dog.

[davoodoo]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 June 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

which is the same it's always been. you don't use arms to block in CPLTs, unless you got some real bad shots out there. In fact, if you want to spread dmg on a CPLT, you essentially stare and just shake your head a bit to spread it to all 3 torso.

Now go look at some nice Archer pics. Guess what other mech doesn't use it's arms to block pretty much ANYTHING?

Out of the two...guess which has a much better track record as a splatmech....and that is even with it the size of an Assault Mech.

Im not saying arm covers it perfectly,
But then you have arm covering side torso and "wrist" covering cockpit.
Overall its still less exposed than catapult and with good angle you can cover it just fine.

Will butterbee be slightly better than archer, yes it will, but slightly better wont make it a good mech.

[Wintersdark]

davoodoo, on 12 June 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Torso sticks out too much on catapult, even if you put your side perfectly everyone can easily shoot at torso.

You don't use full 90 degree twists on the Catapult.

Ultimately, the problem is worse with the Archer. In the Catapult (even now, but way more so when it's so much tinier) slight twisting spreads damage across the whole torso. In the Archer, that's not the case: It's easy to keep your fire on the component you want, because the Archer has huge and very obvious differentiation between it's torso components. That's what kills the Archer in a brawl. Hell, it's brutal for a Mad Dog, and the Mad Dog is a lot smaller.

The Archer's arms don't protect it's CT or ST's when fully twisted either; at least, no more than the Catapult's ears do. There's lots of room to aim over/around the arms. While it's arms may cover more, the Catapult's torso is so very much smaller that the resultant target area is still smaller.

[Barantor]

As someone who has used both the Archer and Catapult extensively I find that the Catapult is easier to XL in because it's torso shape lends folks to "aim for the nose" by default. The Archer loses side torsos as often as CT even with it's big 'nose' because of the way it is easy to pick out the hitboxes on it.

I still laugh at folks desperately trying to brawl in the Archer, it just isn't made for that as well as LRMs. Unfortunately LRMs are still in a bad way so you don't see many overall, especially compared to it's other Heavy cousins the warhammer, marauder and rifleman.

The catapult on the other can get up close a bit, so long as it is in a hit and run capacity. The jester can do it ok and the K2 can as well if you don't use it as a sniping platform (which other mechs do better now). SRMs are in a better way so splatcats can do well if the pilot hits at the right times, but it isn't an easy time.

The ultimate problem we are running into now is that the diversity of mechs means that there are going to be some that do things better than others JUST based on hitboxes and that means mechs like this old Catapult don't see action as much, especially when tied to a 'bad' weapon system. I blame this on the mechlab on this as we can rig out mechs pretty much however we want, so you can turn one chassis with great hitboxes into something that does everything you need it to with little downsides.

[wanderer]

Dauphni, on 12 June 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why do people keep saying the K2 lost hardpoints? The TRO pretty clearly states that the K2 has, and I quote, "two PPCs, twin machine guns, and two medium lasers."

The original K2 on release had 2B/6E (because PPC slots = 2 hardpoints). This was considered OP, so they took two away.

And then released 65 tonners with eight hardpoints anyway, including the Firebrand....which is, you guessed it, 2B/6E. It even has better hardpoint locations.

Fair and balanced.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dauphni, on 12 June 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why do people keep saying the K2 lost hardpoints? The TRO pretty clearly states that the K2 has, and I quote, "two PPCs, twin machine guns, and two medium lasers."

Have you noticed maybe that quite a few mechs in the game are running around with a few more hardpoints than they have stock weapons?

Well, there ya go. In early CB, apparently the K2 had two more energy hardpoints than currently. Has absolutely ZIP to do with the TRO.

kapusta11, on 12 June 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

It doesn't have cooldown or heat gen quirks though. Even with Ghost Heat 6 SRM6s with 10% heat gen quirk generate less heat than 4 SRM6s with 3+ medium lasers.

and also has no pinpoint damage, ability to hit past 270m and nothing for hen it runs out of ammo or get's it's ears shot off.

That said, for a splat ambusher, the Steaksauce is still probably the better choice. All around CQB battler? I'd lean toward the BB.

Barantor, on 12 June 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

As someone who has used both the Archer and Catapult extensively I find that the Catapult is easier to XL in because it's torso shape lends folks to "aim for the nose" by default. The Archer loses side torsos as often as CT even with it's big 'nose' because of the way it is easy to pick out the hitboxes on it.

I still laugh at folks desperately trying to brawl in the Archer, it just isn't made for that as well as LRMs. Unfortunately LRMs are still in a bad way so you don't see many overall, especially compared to it's other Heavy cousins the warhammer, marauder and rifleman.

The catapult on the other can get up close a bit, so long as it is in a hit and run capacity. The jester can do it ok and the K2 can as well if you don't use it as a sniping platform (which other mechs do better now). SRMs are in a better way so splatcats can do well if the pilot hits at the right times, but it isn't an easy time.

The ultimate problem we are running into now is that the diversity of mechs means that there are going to be some that do things better than others JUST based on hitboxes and that means mechs like this old Catapult don't see action as much, especially when tied to a 'bad' weapon system. I blame this on the mechlab on this as we can rig out mechs pretty much however we want, so you can turn one chassis with great hitboxes into something that does everything you need it to with little downsides.

Wubster is a nasty little beast, used right. Structure quirks and revised hitboxes make it tough enough to get away with some peekage, and a mix of 2x LPL and 4x MPL packs a decent little repeatable punch.

[Bishop Steiner]

[JediPanther]

I will buy it only if no more dam vcr decks on the out side of my mech. I already have them in my cockpit next to my beta,cd,boom box,cassette tape deck, and microwave. Now if they gave it away to those us us who already own the rest of the catapult collection that would be great. My jester and founder cat would love another hero cat for play dates.

[Bishop Steiner]

also important to note
• Catapult (all variants): Movement Archetype changed from Large (25°) to Medium (30°).