425 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Oh. We know. It's not accurate.

Well if there were any doubts before. There are none now.

[Koniving]

Mystere, on 14 June 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Well, PGI should cannibalize their "full laser damage on lock" code and turn it into "convergence on lock" for all weapons. The latter is what many asked for, not the former. Something was obviously "lost in translation" when they started developing it.


Of course I'd rather get the delayed convergence mechanic of the closed beta days. But, I think their potato servers cannot handle it.

You know, Star Siege (1999) had this feature. Playing it recently I was like "I know this game used to converge much better when leading but it's converging on the reticule." Then I locked and it's like "O_O OMG!" And I could lead my target and have my shots converge at the range of my target and not at the range of the hill 2,000 meters in the distance.

[MischiefSC]

Koniving, on 18 June 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

You know, Star Siege (1999) had this feature. Playing it recently I was like "I know this game used to converge much better when leading but it's converging on the reticule." Then I locked and it's like "O_O OMG!" And I could lead my target and have my shots converge at the range of my target and not at the range of the hill 2,000 meters in the distance.

Lostech.

1990s were the golden age of gaming technology apparently, accomplishing things we no longer have the technology to repeat.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

TLDR; In Battletech aiming was actually supposed to be hard, and your heatscale was supposed to matter.

Agreed.

Keep in mind, the "randomization" is to spread the damage after every single weapon is "Front loaded" in summary with pinpoint damage per weapon despite how the tech manual explains (paraphrased) "This isn't how it really works in the real battlefield, this is just the simulation simplifying it to save time."

Part of the randomization is also expressly to account for enemy evasion (ever noticed you can't choose specific components to attack unless the enemy is either unconscious or immobile? These are the only times the enemy couldn't 'become aware of you' and 'evade' or deflect your weapons fire.)

Anyway... This is just because and unrelated to the goal here.

Spoiler

Rapid fire weapons; why Battletech uses multi-shot Autocannons instead of single shot Mech Rifles
https://youtu.be/Y3HpN17QoVw?t=438
(Also note a Mech Heavy Rifle does 6 damage to military grade armor at 190mm and is described as a cannon much like this.
An AC/5 uses 40 to 120mm and the largest AC or UAC/20 to exist is 203mm. Ain't no way any Autocannon is single shot).
Mech Rifle.

Mech Autocannon. (Note: High and low calibers exist on all categories of autocannon; for example the AC/20 ranges from the hundred shot 30mm to 203mm)
Light Caliber

Moderate Caliber.

Note that the GM Whirlwind/5 on a Marauder is stated to be 120mm with a firing rate of 3 to 4 shells per second and is "painfully slow" but "each shot packs a wallop", with a 4 second magazine per 'round' (cassette) of ammunition. The following video is a 130mm naval gun with roughly similar weight (sans armor) and nearly matching fire rate.

Side note I was thinking, and if the LBX fired a shot which shattered 20 meters from the convergence point and sent out its shells, it would become a super effective weapon.

Back to aiming difficulty: Just use what is shown here. Have terrain affect aim.

Skip to 3 minutes. for the start of the match.

I should note that these tanks lack gyro-stablized weapon systems but the mechs in Battletech and MWO are gyro-stablized... not necessarily the weapons as in many cases and especially in MWO's depictions, the weapons can't even flex and thus shouldn't be converging so easily.

Movement should be a factor in aiming, as should several other factors. The ranges in Battletech that MWO uses are called "Accuracy" ranges, not effective ranges. These are ranges that one can expect to be able to use the weapon without undue difficulty for your typical pilot.

Keep in mind I may edit this to make better sense later; I have been coming back and forth to this post for about 4 hours.

MWO already has this 'partly' within the game.
Use third person. Watch the TAGs in first person versus third person.

Now put that into first person.

Video with lots more demonstrations.

Made two years ago.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 18 June 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

Agreed.

Keep in mind, the "randomization" is to spread the damage after every single weapon is "Front loaded" in summary with pinpoint damage per weapon despite how the tech manual explains (paraphrased) "This isn't how it really works in the real battlefield, this is just the simulation simplifying it to save time."

Part of the randomization is also expressly to account for enemy evasion (ever noticed you can't choose specific components to attack unless the enemy is either unconscious or immobile? These are the only times the enemy couldn't 'become aware of you' and 'evade' or deflect your weapons fire.)

Anyway... This is just because and unrelated to the goal here.

Spoiler

Rapid fire weapons; why Battletech uses multi-shot Autocannons instead of single shot Mech Rifles
https://youtu.be/Y3HpN17QoVw?t=438
(Also note a Mech Heavy Rifle does 6 damage to military grade armor at 190mm and is described as a cannon much like this.
An AC/5 uses 40 to 120mm and the largest AC or UAC/20 to exist is 203mm. Ain't no way any Autocannon is single shot).
Mech Rifle.

Mech Autocannon. (Note: High and low calibers exist on all categories of autocannon; for example the AC/20 ranges from the hundred shot 30mm to 203mm)
Light Caliber

Moderate Caliber.

Note that the GM Whirlwind/5 on a Marauder is stated to be 120mm with a firing rate of 3 to 4 shells per second and is "painfully slow" but "each shot packs a wallop", with a 4 second magazine per 'round' (cassette) of ammunition. The following video is a 130mm naval gun with roughly similar weight (sans armor) and nearly matching fire rate.

Side note I was thinking, and if the LBX fired a shot which shattered 20 meters from the convergence point and sent out its shells, it would become a super effective weapon.

Back to aiming difficulty: Just use what is shown here. Have terrain affect aim.

Skip to 3 minutes. for the start of the match.

I should note that these tanks lack gyro-stablized weapon systems but the mechs in Battletech and MWO are gyro-stablized... not necessarily the weapons as in many cases and especially in MWO's depictions, the weapons can't even flex and thus shouldn't be converging so easily.

Movement should be a factor in aiming, as should several other factors. The ranges in Battletech that MWO uses are called "Accuracy" ranges, not effective ranges. These are ranges that one can expect to be able to use the weapon without undue difficulty for your typical pilot.

Keep in mind I may edit this to make better sense later; I have been coming back and forth to this post for about 4 hours.

MWO already has this 'partly' within the game.
Use third person. Watch the TAGs in first person versus third person.

Now put that into first person.

Video with lots more demonstrations.

Made two years ago.

Yeah I've been proposing that for lbx for 3yrs. Roland poopood it (in typical Roland"if it wasn't his idea it was a bad idea" manner) of course.

[wanderer]

Koniving, on 18 June 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

You know, Star Siege (1999) had this feature. Playing it recently I was like "I know this game used to converge much better when leading but it's converging on the reticule." Then I locked and it's like "O_O OMG!" And I could lead my target and have my shots converge at the range of my target and not at the range of the hill 2,000 meters in the distance.

It's almost as if such a suggestion keeps happening. *points at November 2015 link in sig*