423 replies to this topic

[DivBy0]

Yes, one of the very bad decisions 2016 who harm the game badly (Long Tom, Skillcrow-Mode, MiniMap, KDK3....).
If PGI would play thier own game.... but for CLAN-Mercs everything is fine

762 NATO, on 28 December 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Still mad about this. Just sayin'

Cheers!

[freakn1ck]

Love piloting firestarters the size of a kingcrab!

[Fire for Effect]

freakn1ck, on 02 January 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Love piloting firestarters the size of a kingcrab!

why complain? the firestarter has the perfect size for a medium mech...........................well yesIS lights are sadly by now quite useless... giving the lolcust an absurdly small size does not really help since at any given time some clan streaker is around to one-shot this far to small mech.Obviously noone told pgi about the concept of different density... and that some things simply cannot be made smaller just because the mech has less tonnage.... ask the pilot am pretty sure he wants a cockpit that has his size intop which he fits; not some size governed by the mech size....funny mathematical fact, the cockpit occupies the largest volume compared to the rest of the mech in... light mechs... since the cockpit will not change much while tonnage does... Also you can built a mech sometimes more sometimes less "dense" so density does not have to be constant... It is very well possible that someone has produced an especially dense mech which has lackluster hardpoints but is very small (old spider).

[AeusDeif]

Haven't played in months. Just checking in to see if they ever unbroke the rescale, since it ruined some of my favorite mechs.

Time away has given me some perspective. It's sad bc I was a legendary founder and put up with so much over the years hoping they'd eventually get on track. Back in the day I think I paid 40 bucks for mechwarrior 4 which had AI/single player out of the box. The best games put the player in a world so he can create a story in it.

My MWO account is just a mech museum now and I only come by the mwomercs site to see the newest exhibit on display. I used to think PGI just needed time to escape the bad habits of IGP. But after they said they'd do a small rescale on what players voted for, then changed that into a massive rescale that made players stop playing most of their mechs... I saw PGI has a cultural problem. Maybe there is a cloistered mentality, so they never see the game as the players see it. Something like sculptors doing surgery. 'I know the patient paid us to fix X, but while we're there why not add a little to y and move z to the other side... wait what's all this red stuff'

Rescale isn't the biggest issue. 24 player matches requires a huge population to work well, which is why CW died. The lack of AI means everything is attrition. They spend so much time balancing mechs while selling mechs that upset the balance.

But the way in which the re-scale was pitched to us, like they'd learned from their mistakes and were going to involve the community... then changed their minds, ignored promises and customers, and said 'oh people just don't like change' and 'this is temporary'...

They simply lack the mental clarity to say what they'll do and stick to it. Someone there has OCD. Feels like a self-loathing artist endlessly reinventing their work. Which would be fine if it was personal property, but not when it's something paid for by others.

Edited by AeusDeif, 04 January 2017 - 04:32 AM.

[Pokey McFlankerson]

AeusDeif, on 04 January 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

Haven't played in months. Just checking in to see if they ever unbroke the rescale, since it ruined some of my favorite mechs.

Time away has given me some perspective. It's sad bc I was a legendary founder and put up with so much over the years hoping they'd eventually get on track. Back in the day I think I paid 40 bucks for mechwarrior 4 which had AI/single player out of the box. The best games put the player in a world so he can create a story in it.

My MWO account is just a mech museum now and I only come by the mwomercs site to see the newest exhibit on display. I used to think PGI just needed time to escape the bad habits of IGP. But after they said they'd do a small rescale on what players voted for, then changed that into a massive rescale that made players stop playing most of their mechs... I saw PGI has a cultural problem. Maybe there is a cloistered mentality, so they never see the game as the players see it. Something like sculptors doing surgery. 'I know the patient paid us to fix X, but while we're there why not add a little to y and move z to the other side... wait what's all this red stuff'

Rescale isn't the biggest issue. 24 player matches requires a huge population to work well, which is why CW died. The lack of AI means everything is attrition. They spend so much time balancing mechs while selling mechs that upset the balance.

But the way in which the re-scale was pitched to us, like they'd learned from their mistakes and were going to involve the community... then changed their minds, ignored promises and customers, and said 'oh people just don't like change' and 'this is temporary'...

They simply lack the mental clarity to say what they'll do and stick to it. Someone there has OCD. Feels like a self-loathing artist endlessly reinventing their work. Which would be fine if it was personal property, but not when it's something paid for by others.

Well said... this has got to be one of the longest running threads.. that's gotta say something.

[Blind Baku]

AeusDeif, on 04 January 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

Haven't played in months. Just checking in to see if they ever unbroke the rescale, since it ruined some of my favorite mechs.

Time away has given me some perspective. It's sad bc I was a legendary founder and put up with so much over the years hoping they'd eventually get on track. Back in the day I think I paid 40 bucks for mechwarrior 4 which had AI/single player out of the box. The best games put the player in a world so he can create a story in it.

My MWO account is just a mech museum now and I only come by the mwomercs site to see the newest exhibit on display. I used to think PGI just needed time to escape the bad habits of IGP. But after they said they'd do a small rescale on what players voted for, then changed that into a massive rescale that made players stop playing most of their mechs... I saw PGI has a cultural problem. Maybe there is a cloistered mentality, so they never see the game as the players see it. Something like sculptors doing surgery. 'I know the patient paid us to fix X, but while we're there why not add a little to y and move z to the other side... wait what's all this red stuff'

Rescale isn't the biggest issue. 24 player matches requires a huge population to work well, which is why CW died. The lack of AI means everything is attrition. They spend so much time balancing mechs while selling mechs that upset the balance.

But the way in which the re-scale was pitched to us, like they'd learned from their mistakes and were going to involve the community... then changed their minds, ignored promises and customers, and said 'oh people just don't like change' and 'this is temporary'...

They simply lack the mental clarity to say what they'll do and stick to it. Someone there has OCD. Feels like a self-loathing artist endlessly reinventing their work. Which would be fine if it was personal property, but not when it's something paid for by others.

Sometimes I want to go buy them a crate of "How to win Friends and Influence People"... it's been around since the '30s and would help them understand how important listening to your client is... let alone how to handle negative people better.

That said, the lights are still to damn tall.

[Kai Lui]

ya IS lights are all to big... hell some the clan lights are too big... and now my griffin is almost the same size as a war-hammer.... ????? someone missed the scalling ... the locas is about the right size in comparison to other mechs.
assults should have a hard time killing lights and should die to 2 of them. heveys should find lights hard to hit. medums should beable to kill them easly... it's a rock papper sizer thing PGI forgot about...

pilots skill are equal: this what SHOULD happen based on size and agility:

2 Lights vs assault... lights win
Light vs Assault... light win more
light vs Med... Med Win
2 light vs heavy ... light win more
light vs heavy ... heavy win more
2 light vs med... Med win

Assault VS heavy... Assault win
Assault VS 2 Med... Assault win more
Assault Vs 2 Heavy... Heavy win more
assault vs 2 Lights... lights win
Assault vs Light ... light win more

med vs assault... assault win
2 med vs assault... assault win more
2 Med vs heavy... Med Win
Med Vs heavy.. heavy win more
med Vs Light... Med Win
Med Vs 2 Light... Med win more

heavy VS Med... heavy win
heavy VS 2 Med... Med win more
heavy VS Assault .. assault win
2 heavy VS Assault... heavy win

ect i am sick of typing but u get the idea...
this basic bit game balance is a bit out of wack.
since lights can't kill hardly anything...
a par of artic cheata should be able to kill a kodiac 3 for example.
but have hell of a time against a night geyr
and get masicered by a Hunchback or storm crow.

Edited by Kai Lui, 06 January 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Chester Rico]

Can you please make Jenners small again?
Also, why are Griffins as big as assault mechs?

[Brenden]

Blind Baku, on 04 January 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

Sometimes I want to go buy them a crate of "How to win Friends and Influence People"... it's been around since the '30s and would help them understand how important listening to your client is... let alone how to handle negative people better.

That said, the lights are still to damn tall.

Sometimes, I want to ask for a refund.

[MechaBattler]

PGI I think now would be a good time to give the Firestarter proper quirks. Not the ones it had before you nerfed it into oblivion with the rescale.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

MechaBattler, on 10 January 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

PGI I think now would be a good time to give the Firestarter proper quirks. Not the ones it had before you nerfed it into oblivion with the rescale.

Seconded. Some agility and structure would do wonders. And maybe some range for the FS9-A

Edited by Keshav Murali, 10 January 2017 - 04:17 PM.

[el piromaniaco]

Most interesting fact about the resize:

Pilot size seems to change, depending on what mech you are piloting.

[Tynan]

I wasn't going to complain about this. I wasn't going to say anything at all. Conceptually the entire things seems quite fair.

But the truth is, without meaning to, I've completely stopped playing since the rescale. Since beta I've primarily piloted lights, and truth be told they're the only 'mechs I was ever tolerably good at (and maybe some fast, skirmishing mediums). The changes made playing any light that isn't a Locust or an ACH just...well, not enjoyable at all. Tactics I've used for years just no longer work, for the following reasons:

1) Population drop. Not globally, but for lights specifically. With fewer people finding lights viable, there are fewer than ever in matches. This means not only do I rarely have other lights to fight, but much more importantly there are rarely any other lights to work with on my team. Working as a harassing skirmisher is much more effective when you have two or three people doing it.

2) Visibility. Even omitting combat, just functioning as a scout requires keeping a low profile, literally and figuratively. On most maps, that's much more difficult now.

3) Height isn't just about how easy a target you are, it's about how easily your allies can fire around you. As a scout I found myself often running back to the main blob after making contact, and IMO it makes a huge difference when the heavies and assaults can fire over my head at my pursuers as I drew them in. Now, I'm just blocking shots.

All of this, combined with the obvious ease of getting yourself blown up, come together to relegate most lights to highly mobile sniping in most matches, and if I wanted to play a sniper I'd just play one of the many, many heavies that fill that role far more effectively.

I've played all weight classes over the four years I've been playing this game, but it was the lights that kept me coming back. They were always tricky to play, but this has broken them to a point where it just isn't enjoyable. I don't like "I quit" posts as a rule, and I didn't mean to come off as pouting, but this change has made me decide reconsider every time I've wanted to play lately.

[A_Velociraptor]

Please revert the is light rescale a little bit, not as small as before but a similar size. I'm talking about the 35 ton IS lights (Firestarter, Panther, Jenner ...), I used to love the panther but ever since it became the size of a medium it is really bad. I loved running around blasting people with PPC's and being able to hide. That kind of hit and run tactic is what made the panther good imo.

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

A_Velociraptor, on 14 January 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

Please revert the is light rescale a little bit, not as small as before but a similar size. I'm talking about the 35 ton IS lights (Firestarter, Panther, Jenner ...), I used to love the panther but ever since it became the size of a medium it is really bad. I loved running around blasting people with PPC's and being able to hide. That kind of hit and run tactic is what made the panther good imo.

If they actually WERE (only) as big (read tall) as many medium, it could be frowned upon but accepted. But sitting in a Panther or a Wolfhound and looking over the shoulders of a Catapult or straight in to the Cockpit of a 15t heavier Centurion (that has frankly not so much girth) feels kinda silly. I have a Clan Heavy that runs over a 100 kp/h or Marauder IIc Assaults who can do 80 (ish). What do we need Lights anymore except the friggin fast and nimble 20-25t or (obviously) the Arctic Tank, err, Cheetah. Panthers and Wolfhounds? Very very very very rarely.

Here's the comparison I made just after the rescale (didn't update it anymore with new Mechs because it's not going to change anything, so frag it!)

MWO 2016 ReScale Height Table

[DAEDALOS513]

A_Velociraptor, on 14 January 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

Please revert the is light rescale a little bit, not as small as before but a similar size. I'm talking about the 35 ton IS lights (Firestarter, Panther, Jenner ...), I used to love the panther but ever since it became the size of a medium it is really bad. I loved running around blasting people with PPC's and being able to hide. That kind of hit and run tactic is what made the panther good imo.

At the very least they should give back the mobility quirks that lights used to enjoy... now they feel like mediocre medium mechs as far as movement goes.

Much of the problem is your fast speed gets you into situations where a light should be able to squirm out of easily but can't.. like a tight corner.. instead you flail about clunkily, banging into every wall around you trying to make a u-turn. In a light?!?

Give them some turn-rate quirks, increase their jet capability, SOMETHING!

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 14 January 2017 - 01:24 PM.

[AeusDeif]

I'm not interested in half-measures when it comes to a mech rerescale.

They should simply reverse it in most cases. With many of these mechs their decision was 100% wrong. No one asked them to do it. No one was happy afterward. The problem was created by ego and ego is why it isn't fixed. No one over there wants to say 'all that work we put into this was a waste of time.' But that is step 1 to not wasting any more time.

If they want to try to salvage it, they could downscale a lot of the underplayed mechs. Upscale the obvious ones like catapult and locust. And I mean basic scaling, not meticulous remodeling. But I don't have much faith in their ability to keep things simple. They might agree to it, and 12 months later when it's implemented, the direwolf is the size of a raven.

Edited by AeusDeif, 16 January 2017 - 06:24 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

I think that all of the 35 ton mechs should be slightly reduced. I get that in general the idea was to have each tonnage be in a certain area of height and width and that they try to trade one up or down for the other. Shorter mechs are wider, taller mechs are skinnier. However, 35 ton mechs are too close 40 ton mechs and not close enough to 30 ton mechs. The wolf hound is actually pretty close in size to the blackjack which has a whole 10 tons on it and is significantly more tanky. I think half way between what the average 30 ton mech and what the particular current 35 model is would b great

[762 NATO]

And another patch goes by and mention of this being fixed in the patch notes is glaringly missing....

Still not happy, PGI. What happened to "And we will monitor metrics and adjust as needed" (paraphrased)?

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

762 NATO, on 21 February 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

And another patch goes by and mention of this being fixed in the patch notes is glaringly missing....

Still not happy, PGI. What happened to "And we will monitor metrics and adjust as needed" (paraphrased)?

Since the skill tree change will happen soon I bet watching the metrics now would be pretty useless as things are gonna change anyway. ,And then there's new 3060 (-ish) tech announced for summer, so the cards are shuffeled the whole d4mn year. I am comfy in a Locust at the moment, but I sure as hell miss my trusty WLF once in a while ...