578 replies to this topic

[stocky0904]

The patch is ok in a lot of aspects.

The people asked for a rescale, they got it. If they like it or not.

The nerfhammer is not ok.

I dont know who was telling you that the MAD-5D with 20% missile cooldown was a gamechanger. I know nobody (Unitsize 87) who uses the missileslots (exept me lol). And i didnt see a lot of people outside my unit using them.
So i feel personally nerfed

It looks a bit like rolling a (nerf-)dice over the few IS chassis that are usefull against the clans. Now some/most of them are bigger with less positve quirks. Well done. Clan whiners won! Grats!

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

I guess my concern is that people whine and complain b/c their personal expectations and agendas are not being met. The people that are happy with the game aren't complaining so the changes are always skewed to the agendas of a vocal minority.

In other words, a lot of the time i find it hard to believe that those that raise issues about "look what they did to this mech or that mech" have anything but their own interests at heart. I swear for some, that *is* their game... they don't balance, they don't care about balance, they just want what they want and everyone else can take a hike.

That attitude will just get this game scuttled sooner rather than later.

We need a game that has some modicum of balance and a better means to induct new players. Thats my verbose 2 cents...

Sorry movin, my friend, but that is wrong.

I like the game and i want to have it balanced as good as possible. But i have all the right to complain about things i dont understand or where i have another opinion.

[Cy Mitchell]

Overall, I think this is the best patch that I have ever seen since coming back to the game. The re-scale is fantastic and much needed to give a basis for balance. Now all Mechs are properly sized in relationship to one another and can be gradually adjusted to perform properly. The map changes for Frozen City and Forest Colony look great in the presentation but I will wait until I actually play them to pass judgement. I am a little concerned about the mini-map changes but I will see how it plays in game. That concern is also tempered by some of the comments Russ made about adding infowarfare with the upcoming new skill tree. I use VOIP so I do not see that the Command Wheel will be a huge added feature for me but we will see how it goes after I have been in games with it.

I think most of what I see in this patch is going to have a positive impact on the game and will lay the foundation for additional fixes and content that are coming later this summer. These changes have raised my excitement and enthusiasm levels towards the game.

Edited by Rampage, 18 June 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[xLUPOx]

ATLAS QUIRKS ARE COMPLETELY NO-SENSE

AND MAULERS BECOME USELESS

Edited by xLUPOx, 18 June 2016 - 07:03 AM.

[Malleus011]

Glad to see the rescale.

Not that Russ cares, but I won't play CW if it's only IS vs Clans. Fighting clanners all the time gets really old. Some of my best CW matches - the ones that were closest to fun - were IS vs IS.

[DarthHias]

Some Mechs getting quirks dialed back by 5-10%
People cry Nerfhammer. Really?

There are Mechs in this game that have been hit with the nerfhammer. They never saw the light of the day again. Hello Victor? You there? Oh you´re in the Mechbay playin cards with yo old buddy o yours the Lowlander.

Edited by DarthHias, 18 June 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[MovinTarget]

stocky0904, on 18 June 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

Sorry movin, my friend, but that is wrong.

I like the game and i want to have it balanced as good as possible. But i have all the right to complain about things i dont understand or where i have another opinion.

I am not saying you aren't entitled to an opinion at all.

My concern though is that pgi knee jerk reacts to the squeakiest wheels not accounting for the fact that a quiet majority be happy right where things are. I find the forums are more often a platform for pushing agendas and kvetching rather than finding common ground and illuminating in a respectful manner.


...maybe i just haven't realized what forums are for...

[SteelHoves]

DarthHias, on 18 June 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Some Mechs getting quirks dialed back by 5-10%
People cry Nerfhammer. Really?

its actually very simple . When you take a mech and make it larger you also increased the hit boxes of said mech.. when the hit boxes grow it is now easier to kill said mech. this is called a nerf. Now take the mech you just made larger and remove some of its hit points guess what you have another nerf. so you double nerf a mech and wonder why people are saying nerfhammer.
What they should have done is do the rescale and let people play the mechs to see if the structure quirks needed adjustment but as usual PGI wants to make big moves instead of honing in the balance.
With the current Alpha meta/laser meta the rescale and quirk nerf hits IS hard. it will be easier to kill IS XL mechs thus lowering TTK to be worse than it is now. Taking away XL engines from some IS mechs makes them sub par at best in the current meta. So until that draw system or what ever its called gets dropped i expect the balance to swing in favor of clan mechs. not like my Kodiaks, Hunchie IIC and streak mad dogs weren’t op before lol. I’m going to love dropping in my Streak dog come patch day and kill the IS lights that are now the size of medium mechs lol

Edited by SteelHoves, 18 June 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

And once again our dear devs show just how clueless they are.
So, exactly how much brain process has been put into the rescale that features the size increase for mechs like Zeus, Highlander and Executioner?
A word of advise for "new map designers" .. don't fix whats not broken. You want to break something go ahead and break something adding it as a new map. And while you are at it, bring old maps back into rotation. By that one screenshot alone it is apparent that new Frozen City sux. Nobody wants "balanced" maps that are all the same, people want different maps.

[Wintersdark]

Tigerwolf, on 17 June 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Now I can see nerfing the oxide, but to take away ALL viable FP/CW mechs for the inner sphere in one swoop? I mean, wow, it is going to look like CW1 all over again. I guess I should just stop fighting it and go clan seeing as PGI wants it that way.

Yup, they're all taken completely away, totally non-viable now. 5% nerfs and a height increase and bam, DOA.

[Mister Blastman]

The command icon over the robot is bad. The entire targeting box should change color to something like purple or magenta or orange or teal (or whatever color blind folks need it to be). Fishing for an icon on the battlefield is tedious.

[Cy Mitchell]

SteelHoves, on 18 June 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

its actually very simple . When you take a mech and make it larger you also increased the hit boxes of said mech.. when the hit boxes grow it is now easier to kill said mech. this is called a nerf. Now take the mech you just made larger and remove some of its hit points guess what you have another nerf. so you double nerf a mech and wonder why people are saying nerfhammer.
What they should have done is do the rescale and let people play the mechs to see if the structure quirks needed adjustment but as usual PGI wants to make big moves instead of honing in the balance.
With the current Alpha meta/laser meta the rescale and quirk nerf hits IS hard. it will be easier to kill IS XL mechs thus lowering TTK to be worse than it is now. Taking away XL engines from some IS mechs makes them sub par at best in the current meta. So until that draw system or what ever its called gets dropped i expect the balance to swing in favor of clan mechs. not like my Kodiaks, Hunchie IIC and streak mad dogs weren’t op before lol. I’m going to love dropping in my Streak dog come patch day and kill the IS lights that are now the size of medium mechs lol

I was in favor and advocated for dropping all the quirks with the re-scale. Imagine the angst if they had listened to me.

I do agree they could have given it some time to see what is what but they will be re-evaluating quirks constantly so if adjustments need to be made up or down they will do it in the next couple patches if not before.

The IS Light Mechs are not the only ones that got resized. The Adder and the Jenner II both grew. They are not the size of Mediums. They are the size of 35 tons Lights which is Close to the size of a 40 Ton Medium as it should be because there is only a 5 ton difference between the two. Also the IS now has the smallest Light in the game with the Locust which shrank significantly to get to the proper size for a 20 ton Mech. That thing is fast and will be hard to hit at that size. Clan needs the Firemoth to compete.

Edited by Rampage, 18 June 2016 - 07:57 AM.

[YUyahoo]

So for the most part "re-scale" seems to mean make the good performing mechs larger and the under-performing mechs smaller...and then reduce the structure bonuses on the smaller mechs. I'm not sure I get what the point of that is (I mean if you make a "too big" mech smaller and then also make it structurally weaker to compensate for its smaller size what is the point, might as well leave it as is). Also really curious about the vindicator quirk changes, what does PGI have against armor buffs (which truly make a mech tougher where structure buff increase ttk but also make a mech more vulnerable to having components destroyed from crit hits). Why do we need to take a few steps backwards for every step forward?

[Cy Mitchell]

YUyahoo, on 18 June 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

So for the most part "re-scale" seems to mean make the good performing mechs larger and the under-performing mechs smaller...and then reduce the structure bonuses on the smaller mechs. I'm not sure I get what the point of that is (I mean if you make a "too big" mech smaller and then also make it structurally weaker to compensate for its smaller size what is the point, might as well leave it as is). Also really curious about the vindicator quirk changes, what does PGI have against armor buffs (which truly make a mech tougher where structure buff increase ttk but also make a mech more vulnerable to having components destroyed from crit hits). Why do we need to take a few steps backwards for every step forward?

The point was to proper size all the Mechs to level the playing field and to provide a foundation to properly balance Mechs. The re-quirking is an ongoing project. This step backward (if you want to call it that) is a good one because it puts you on a better path with fewer obstacles to getting things right.

[LordKnightFandragon]

HMm, so is this rescale not going to be that big a game changer then?

[Wintersdark]

YUyahoo, on 18 June 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

So for the most part "re-scale" seems to mean make the good performing mechs larger and the under-performing mechs smaller...and then reduce the structure bonuses on the smaller mechs. I'm not sure I get what the point of that is (I mean if you make a "too big" mech smaller and then also make it structurally weaker to compensate for its smaller size what is the point, might as well leave it as is). Also really curious about the vindicator quirk changes, what does PGI have against armor buffs (which truly make a mech tougher where structure buff increase ttk but also make a mech more vulnerable to having components destroyed from crit hits). Why do we need to take a few steps backwards for every step forward?

The rescale had nothing to do with balance, not directly. Mechs were not rescaled based on their performance.

However, as a rule of thumb, the most used mechs tended to get bigger, while the least used ones tended to get smaller. This is not a coincidence, but it wasn't why the mechs where scaled they way they were.

Previously, people would run the heavies mechs in a weight class pretty much exclusively. Why run a 60t Heavy when you can run a 75t heavy that's the same size, but has more armor and weaponry? Now, the lighter mechs in a weight class have two advantages, instead of (potentially but not always) one. Now they've still got their potential speed advantage, but also have a size advantage.



Edit: Re: Vindicator quirks.

The Vindicator lost armor quirks to it's arms and legs.

It gained substantial structure quirks everywhere - arms and legs, but also to it's torsos.

armor > structure, yes, but structure to the torsos is vastly superior to armor in the arms, way more than making up for the shift from armor to structure in the arms and legs.

The Vindicator was wholly buffed, not nerfed.

Edited by Wintersdark, 18 June 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[Wintersdark]

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 June 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

HMm, so is this rescale not going to be that big a game changer then?

Hard to say.


People all have their pants on fire, but I'm curious just how much of an impact it'll actually have. There's just so much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and it's ridiculous. It's impossible to predict how much impact these rescales will have, really, because nothing like this has ever happened before. As I've said before, mechs getting *taller* don't get particularly easier to hit. How often do you find yourself missing a Grasshopper because you fired over it's head?

You miss because you lead it incorrectly, more often than not, and lateral movement+narrow profile is harder to hit. Gun's default verticle aim height hits basically everything except a short light, so unless there's severe vertical issues you don't miss vertically ever, and even if something is on a wholly different vertical height, it rarely results in missing.

I really think that, a couple exceptions aside(Catapult++, Nova++, Locust++, Jenner--, etc) it's not really going to have an enormous impact in gameplay. We'll see, though. I'm really, really interested in seeing how this changes tier lists =)

[LordKnightFandragon]

I miss vertically when I put the target in the middle of my reticule and the guns fire out the top of the reticule. Mostly when trying to CT shot stuff from the side, and I aim at the side of the head.

[Wintersdark]

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 June 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

I miss vertically when I put the target in the middle of my reticule and the guns fire out the top of the reticule. Mostly when trying to CT shot stuff from the side, and I aim at the side of the head.

That's still unaffected by height. If you're aiming at the head, and fire over it, that's going to happen pretty much regardless of the target's height (within reason)

[Ryoken]

This is an impressive patch and I am looking forward to see how it all works ingame!

Also more bigger maps is awesome. MWO feels a lot like solaris7 right now which isn't a bad thing - in fact having some S7 arenas in game sounds nice. But I enjoy large area combat and ranged fighting more, so very excited about more bigger maps that give back the Battlemech warfare feel. Maybe some future game modes could encourage players to spread out to reach mission goals and prevent the now very ubiquitous deathball.

[-Skyrider-]

man people have gone crazy over mechs being resized too big. Well not sure if the changes will impact those mechs that much, but the black knight, oxide, and grasshopper kinda were excepted to be nerfed in the near future anyways. But seeing as everyone who is complaining haven't even played the new patch, and the fact that now all the mechs are on a linear volume scale, its almost going to be playing a new game. The larger mechs towards the top of each tonnage cap like the, 35, 55, 75, 95, 100 tonners makes sense to give the smaller mechs of each weight class a new trade off advantage to compete with them. So stop your theory crafting and just let the blocks fall were the may on patch day, cause its hard to tell.