36 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Just seems odd to me. A Kodiak farts and gets a match score of 150. A Locust runs around for 15 minutes, gets a kill and 2 assists, etc. and makes 80-120 match score. Discuss, if you dare, or post your funny pictures.

I like this one...

Edited by Lightfoot, 18 June 2016 - 10:28 PM.

[Mcgral18]

If you deal under 200 damage...well, it's kinda your fault, or RNGeesus just hates you
Regularly, mind you


200 damage=100 match score
All mechs have that potential, some with more ease than others

[Mycrus]

it's like 'hard' not to get that match score... really?!

[jss78]

The short answer, it's not very well balanced. There are reasons why heavier 'mechs are more common in this game. Pretty much the only battlefield role in this game is dealing damage on other 'mechs, and generally speaking the heavier 'mechs are better at this.

It's just what it is. I like lights and mediums for a challenge, but that's somewhat what they are, a self-imposed hard mode.

Edit: That said, I don't find these particular reward thresholds much of a problem in any 'mech.They were more of a problem in some old events where you needed 250-300 match score. During those events we had everyone and his dog pilot 70+ tonners.

Edited by jss78, 18 June 2016 - 10:45 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

I dunno, maybe it should be set by weight class, but 200 damage is pretty easy to get with almost any mech. Even in a light. I think the match score required is so low to allow for the lesser damage most lights do, because a Kodiak can get 200 damage in 4 shots and that definitely doesn't qualify as a "good match". Why reward that guy for shooting 4 times? Because if they set the bar higher it would be very difficult for lights to get qualifying matches. I wish they WOULD set the match score requirement by weight class, but this is PGI...

[El Bandito]

If you are worried about tonnages affecting the public queue leaderboard, don't. It is a ***** for PGI to fix the individual class scoring system to adjust to the leaderboard, so best ignore it.

[Y E O N N E]

A Locust running around for 15 minutes and making only a kill, 2 assists, and not even enough damage to break 120 is a bad Locust, only slightly better than a dead one.

Making 150 in a Locust is trivial.

[Mystere]

The question was not whether or not it was easy, hard, or possible. The question was whether or not it was "balanced".

There is a reason why the Light Mech queue regularly drops below the 10% mark, and sometimes even hits 0.

[Xetelian]

Mediums and Heavies are the easier to break 250 damage sizes
Assaults can be easy if you're not rambo and stay with the team...keeping up with nascar is another matter

Lights are going to have to work harder to get their points.
They can bring NARC and TAG to increase their match score I believe or they can bring strong lights and do 350 damage

I can do 350 damage pretty consistently in a light like the ACH, even blazing around the field firing at everything as I pass I can pull this much damage. Might not benefit my team, and I might die twice as fast and more but I can flub this contest to get 150 match score pretty fast in a good light.


Though doing 350 damage in my LCT 1V is a little more difficult and I truly admire anyone who can break 1000 damage in a light because I've never done it. Even when the ACH was released brand new I broke 700 a few times but never 1000.


I jumped from Tier 3 to tier 2 just yesterday and nothing has changed, though I did run across a KFX that did break 1000 a few days before.

This game is ALL about damage. If you can't do it in a light I suggest a Heavy or Medium.

[Appogee]

It's not hard to get 150 in a Locust.

But it does require more skill than in a Heavy, due to the damage-weighted scoring system. A Locust can die in one shot, whereas a Heavy can often survive a bit longer to deal the required damage.

So I do believe the scoring system should better reflect the relative contribution of Lights. From my perspective, they should get high rewards for disrupting enemy lines and killing assaults... though I am not sure how that could be coded into a reward system.

[LordNothing]

the problem with these events is they make everyone play like total idiots. any other time 150 score is stupid easy to get (locust or dire). but in an event, everyone goes full pug and effectively acts like a player 2 tiers beneath them. you get lerm boats, sit around do nothing games, nascar, all the hallmarks of horrible games. it will continue until the event is over.

for all that is good in the world do not, under any circumstances, extend the event. dont even think about it pgi. you are only catering to the freeloaders anyway. no extensions! ever!

Edited by LordNothing, 18 June 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[Mystere]

LordNothing, on 18 June 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

the problem with these events is they make everyone play like total idiots. any other time 150 score is stupid easy to get (locust or dire). but in an event, everyone goes full pug and effectively acts like a player 2 tiers beneath them. you get lerm boats, sit around do nothing games, nascar, all the hallmarks of horrible games. it will continue until the event is over.

for all that is good in the world do not, under any circumstances, extend the event. dont even think about it pgi. you are only catering to the freeloaders anyway. no extensions! ever!

This is the reason I usually avoid events, and this one is no different. Heck, it's already Day 3 and I still have zero games played.

I'd rather spend time tuning my HOTAS macros.

Edited by Mystere, 18 June 2016 - 11:06 PM.

[smokytehbear]

Appogee, on 18 June 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

It's not hard to get 150 in a Locust.

But it does require more skill than in a Heavy, due to the damage-weighted scoring system. A Locust can die in one shot, whereas a Heavy can often survive a bit longer to deal the required damage.

So I do believe the scoring system should better reflect the relative contribution of Lights. From my perspective, they should get high rewards for disrupting enemy lines and killing assaults... though I am not sure how that could be coded into a reward system.

I do. Winners get paid, losers don't.

If you're good at your role and your role actually helps, you'll get paid more than people who aren't either or both of the above.

Before anyone throws in the complaint that scrubs can get carried and pros weighed down, yes I know. Over enough games that won't happen though. You would see way less lurmers, way less hiders, and more people willing to make sacrifices for the good of the team if a win counted for more than jack squat, and hiding in the back with a spider and helping no one didn't pay you extremely well.

[jss78]

Appogee, on 18 June 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

It's not hard to get 150 in a Locust.

But it does require more skill than in a Heavy, due to the damage-weighted scoring system. A Locust can die in one shot, whereas a Heavy can often survive a bit longer to deal the required damage.

So I do believe the scoring system should better reflect the relative contribution of Lights. From my perspective, they should get high rewards for disrupting enemy lines and killing assaults... though I am not sure how that could be coded into a reward system.

A possible simple thing to do would be to factor the Protected Light/Medium bonuses into the match score formula, as these are something that only lights and mediums are eligible to.

These are already implemented and tracked by the game. They do a decent job at evening out the c-bill rewards for lights and mediums (in a typical game in a light/medium I get ~10,000 c-bills from Protected Light/Medium). So you could easily use these to even out the match score to be less damage-centric.

Edit: grammar

Edited by jss78, 18 June 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Appogee, on 18 June 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

A Locust can die in one shot, whereas a Heavy can often survive a bit longer to deal the required damage.

The last enemy mech alive in a match is usually a light mech. The best armor is just not getting hit, and a good light pilot can avoid being hit very well. It's the ones that think they can run right through a whole enemy team and come out unscathed that have problems. There was a time when you COULD do that in a Spider. I remember when they were so hard to kill it took a whole team focusing one to finally bring it down. *Shudders* I still have Spider PTSD from those days.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Every time we have a challenge based on match score someone complains about it being so hard to do in light mechs compared to heavies or assaults.

If its really that hard to you then drive a heavy or assault, its easy for any decent light pilots to do.

[Johnny Z]

Xetelian, on 18 June 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Mediums and Heavies are the easier to break 250 damage sizes
Assaults can be easy if you're not rambo and stay with the team...keeping up with nascar is another matter

Lights are going to have to work harder to get their points.
They can bring NARC and TAG to increase their match score I believe or they can bring strong lights and do 350 damage

I can do 350 damage pretty consistently in a light like the ACH, even blazing around the field firing at everything as I pass I can pull this much damage. Might not benefit my team, and I might die twice as fast and more but I can flub this contest to get 150 match score pretty fast in a good light.


Though doing 350 damage in my LCT 1V is a little more difficult and I truly admire anyone who can break 1000 damage in a light because I've never done it. Even when the ACH was released brand new I broke 700 a few times but never 1000.


I jumped from Tier 3 to tier 2 just yesterday and nothing has changed, though I did run across a KFX that did break 1000 a few days before.

This game is ALL about damage. If you can't do it in a light I suggest a Heavy or Medium.

I broke 1k damage in my Raven 4X dual ERLL once quite a while ago, 1150ish. Was on the old forest colony in a stand off match. Havent don't that since or before. Short range light mechs just don't have the durability or firewpower to do it any other way. In quick play sniper mechs are most often really bad for the team to.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 June 2016 - 11:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Johnny Z, on 18 June 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

I broke 1k damage in my Raven 4X dual ERLL once quite a while ago, 1150ish. Was on the old forest colony in a stand off match. Havent don't that since or before. Short range light mechs just don't have the durability or firewpower to do it any other way. In quick play sniper mechs are most often really bad for the team to.

Yes they do. I've done it with the 8xSPL FS9-A as well as a 4xMPL Locust. I've seen plenty of ACH, Oxides, and Jenner IIC do it. To be sure, any match where you score greater than 700 is usually because there were too many potatoes on both teams, but you can do it with short-range Lights. You just have to work the angles and be extra cagey.

[Cy Mitchell]

There should be more credit given for scouting, flanking, spotting, NARC, TAG, UAV, back-stabbing, disruption and completing objectives. There is no doubt that the events are skewed in a way that benefits the heavier weight classes. But then the whole game is skewed that way as far as rewards. Because damage dealt reigns supreme the whole game become little more than skirmish no matter what mode you are playing.

The events just highlight the problem.

[Lykaon]

Mcgral18, on 18 June 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

If you deal under 200 damage...well, it's kinda your fault, or RNGeesus just hates you
Regularly, mind you


200 damage=100 match score
All mechs have that potential, some with more ease than others

Lets take a 6x UAC5 Direwolf as an assault example.

around 11.5 DPS.
about 65% cooling efficiency
optimal range around 600m and a max range at over 1km.
it's painfully slow.
but will likely sustain at the least 175 damage to destroy it.

Our light mech ..let's use a Jenner IIcA with 6x sml pulse

around 5 DPS
about 40% cooling efficiency
optimal range of 165 with a max range just under 300m
very nimble so mobility isn't an issue
it will take at least around 58 damage to kill a Jenner IIc


What is generally considered "proper" playstyle for the roles of each mech is pretty much...

Direwolf is to stick with the main formation of the team and focus attention on the largest and most dangerous enemy mechs. Essentially the Direwolf is attacking other assault mechs and heavy mechs as a priority. Risk level is compartativley low because you have immediate team support and are presenting multiple targets and applying damage from multiple sources (because of the grouped formation)

The Jenner IIc is probably ranging out away from the pack to either attack issolated enemy assault mechs (from behind) or suppressing and hunting enemy light harrassers. In either case the Jenner is probably alone and far from immediate team support presents a singular target and is more easily evaded due to being a singular damage source.

So let's assume that both of these mechs performed well.

The Direwolf has cored out an enemy Kodiak and in the process has dished out 250 damage

The Jenner has successfully hunted down and destroyed an enemy Arctic Cheetah by legging it dealing 68 damage in the process. But here is the thing...

The typical targets of each mech are so different in how you attack them that the damage is really not a good way of scoring effectivness.

Hitting an enemy light mech that is evading at high speed is significantly harder than blasting an alpha into the billboard sized chest of an enemy assault mech. And then there is the amount of damage to destroy the target. The enemy light mech doesn't need 200+ damage applied to it to destroy it. It simply doesn't take that amount of damage to kill it.

I would also say that a 50% miss rate is not unreasonable to assume for a light vs light duel. And now we look at DPS.

The jenner has less than half the DPS of the Dire. Add in the 50% miss rate for targeting a fast and evasive enemy and that rate is decreased even further.

Let us even assume that our example Jenner ran across the worst Direwolf pilot in the history of MWo. We get a clean back shot with absolutely no evasion taken by the direwolf. Let's assume 10 rear armor for the Dire and we have 10 armor + 62 structure for 72 total damage to kill the 100 ton enemy.

The match score sees no difference between walking up behind a braindead assault pilot that takes zero evasion and is destroyed by 72 damage or chasing an enemy light mech around for 9 minutes and eventually killing it with 72 damage applied.