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Dual T.16000M joysticks


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#1 Uri Brauer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

Got my sticks (and JoyLoc brackets to sit them on), and working on using Thrustmaster's T.A.R.G.E.T. software to turn them into a single virtual controller (which should fool MWO).

For anyone else moving in the same direction, here's the script so far:

include "target.tmh"
alias T16001; // second T16000 handle, which will be used all mapping commands
 
int main()
{
if(Init(&EventHandle)) return 1;
&T16001 = GetIndexJoy(SelectUsbDevice("VID_044F&PID_B10A"));  // expect a second T16000 to be plugged on USB
 
MapAxis(&T16000, JOYX, MOUSE_X_AXIS);
MapAxis(&T16000, JOYY, MOUSE_Y_AXIS);
KeyAxis(&T16001, JOYX, 0, AXMAP2(3, 'a', 0, 'd'));
KeyAxis(&T16001, JOYY, 0, AXMAP2(3, 'w', 0, 's'));
 
MapKey(&T16000, TS1, DX1);
MapKey(&T16000, TS2, DX2);
MapKey(&T16000, TS3, DX3);
MapKey(&T16000, TS4, DX4);
MapKey(&T16001, TS1, DX5);
MapKey(&T16001, TS2, DX6);
MapKey(&T16001, TS3, DX7);
MapKey(&T16001, TS4, DX8);
 
MapKey(&T16000, B5, DX9);
MapKey(&T16000, B6, DX10);
MapKey(&T16000, B7, DX11);
MapKey(&T16000, B8, DX12);
MapKey(&T16000, B9, DX13);
MapKey(&T16000, B10, DX14);
MapKey(&T16001, B5, DX15);
MapKey(&T16001, B6, DX16);
MapKey(&T16001, B7, DX17);
MapKey(&T16001, B8, DX18);
MapKey(&T16001, B9, DX19);
MapKey(&T16001, B10, DX20);
 
MapKey(&T16000, H1U, DXHATUP);
MapKey(&T16000, H1R, DXHATRIGHT);
MapKey(&T16000, H1D, DXHATDOWN);
MapKey(&T16000, H1L, DXHATLEFT);
}
int EventHandle(int type, alias o, int x)
{
	DefaultMapping(&o, x);
}


This creates a single virtual controller with four axes (probably the wrong ones, but easy to tidy up later), one hat and twenty buttons.

Bad news from Thrustmaster is that there's no way to map the other hat. Aw...


Posted Image

Edited by Uri Brauer, 24 July 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#2 Targetloc

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:08 PM

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#3 Technoviking

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:25 PM

Identify cost, brand, and location of Joystick Clamps please!

As far as application.... I'd have to see that in action.

Nevermind.

http://www.joyloc.co...amp_bracket.htm


Nice... little pricey. Have to get the whole pit plans to the wife Commander. I like it!

#4 Uri Brauer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

View PostTechnoviking, on 16 July 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Nice... little pricey.

Indeed. They also hit you with FedEx shipping - £15 just within the UK, which seemed harsh. But they're nice and robust, and I'll probably never need to buy replacements.

The stick bases are Velcro'd to the clamps. (The bases are weighted... but not enough to allow one-handed use).

#5 buckaroo

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

I built angled joystick "shelves" for $10, so I am getting a kick...

They're not removable though... *grumble*

#6 Cid

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:02 PM

mind to elaborate what advantages a dual stick / single virtual controller offers?

looks really cool, just want to know what makes it better then say, a hotas setup..

#7 Davion5150

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

I'm not too knowledgeable about how games/Windows interact with a joystick. But I take it that Windows/games won't recognize multiple joysticks?

#8 Targetloc

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:00 PM

View PostCid, on 17 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

mind to elaborate what advantages a dual stick / single virtual controller offers?

looks really cool, just want to know what makes it better then say, a hotas setup..


1. It looks badass.
2. The stick X/Y (especially the T.16000M) has much finer sensitivity than the 'stick twist' for torso control, so you can have one stick for pure torso control and the other stick for forward/backwards and leg turning.
3. Depending on the throttle, the stick may be easier to tell when you're at true neutral versus forward/reverse.
4. Two triggers! Maximum alpha strike satisfaction.
5. It looks badass.

#9 Uri Brauer

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostCid, on 17 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

mind to elaborate what advantages a dual stick ... offers?
looks really cool, just want to know what makes it better then say, a hotas setup..

Depends on the HOTAS. Most tend to have three axes on the stick (including twist) and one on the throttle. I'd prefer to have two on each hand, and have one hand doing targeting and weapons control whilst the other does movement and other controls.

I'm also not sure how well a HOTAS throttle will work for mechs, where reverse will see a fair bit of use. I'm sure this is manageable with the Thrustmaster software.

There's also sometimes a thing called a detent on a HOTAS throttle (giving a feel of where the throttle moves into afterburner mode, perhaps) which might get annoying in a mech context (or be useful - I can't tell). Detents seem to often be adjustable, so this might be a red herring.

Another sort of advantage is that these sticks are pretty cheap, especially given the high sensitivity of the main axes. (It shows in the buttons and throttle, though...) I've spent much less on the two sticks than I could have on a HOTAS with the same sensitivity. (You could argue the clamp costs, but I'd probably have bought them for a HOTAS anyway).

View PostCid, on 17 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

...single virtual controller...?

View PostDavion5150, on 17 July 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'm not too knowledgeable about how games/Windows interact with a joystick. But I take it that Windows/games won't recognize multiple joysticks?

MWO might, but the devs aren't passing out that info to us non-betoids. It might be painful organising controls across two identical sticks, though - Windows gives them identical labels which I can't change.

Doing it like this gives me full control over which axis does what, and the 'Device Analyser' part of the package lets me test what I've scripted.

I'll also be able to use the same software to fiddle around with sensitivity curves and macros and the like. There's an insane level of potential in the scripting software (if I can work out how to use it...). The same software covers all the Thrustmaster HOTAS setups and their 'MFD's too.

#10 Strikhedonia

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:52 PM

The detent is absolutely a concern, especially if you're using an X52 pro. Depending on the sensitivity of the game and controller it can cause issues with the upper limit of the throttle. For example, in another game I'm playing the detent makes it difficult to set the throttle between 85% and 100%. You'll get to 85% and immediately after moving past the detent you'll engage overdrive, skipping the remaining 15%. That's with the resistance on the detent set to minimum.

A two-stick control setup gives you a bit more flexibility in exchange for a loss in precision. You're not going to be able to set the throttle to 75% and forget about, you'll have to hold the stick at a set position and any change in axis may result in an increase or decrease in speed. At the same time it gives you more control without taking your hand off the stick, whereas a HOTAS throttle quadrant may or may not have a large array of useful buttons. If it's set up correctly it could also make a crash stop or a rapid change in direction possible, beyond what you'd expect from a HOTAS or the KBM.

Of course, that relies on two things:

1) You can get Windows to recognize the second stick as a separate axis / control scheme.
2) MWO offers this level of control customization.

#11 Uri Brauer

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:23 PM

View PostSarah McCallum, on 17 July 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

You're not going to be able to set the throttle to 75% and forget about, you'll have to hold the stick at a set position and any change in axis may result in an increase or decrease in speed.

I don't expect piloting to need as much precision as targeting. I really bought the same stick twice based on a) price and b) the fact that this one can be reconfigured for lefties. Having the software handle both is a bonus.

Thrustmaster's 'TARGET' software allows axes to be defined as either absolute or relative... so in theory I can rig the throttle to be such that +50% is either 'set throttle to 50% of max' or 'increase throttle at 50% of maximum rate'. In the latter case, letting go would leave the speed fixed. Of course, the downside is that I'd never be able to stop completely... and I can't tell if this would actually work without MWO.

Edited by Uri Brauer, 17 July 2012 - 11:24 PM.


#12 Seth Deathstalker

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

View PostUri Brauer, on 17 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I don't expect piloting to need as much precision as targeting. I really bought the same stick twice based on a) price and ;) the fact that this one can be reconfigured for lefties. Having the software handle both is a bonus.

Thrustmaster's 'TARGET' software allows axes to be defined as either absolute or relative... so in theory I can rig the throttle to be such that +50% is either 'set throttle to 50% of max' or 'increase throttle at 50% of maximum rate'. In the latter case, letting go would leave the speed fixed. Of course, the downside is that I'd never be able to stop completely... and I can't tell if this would actually work without MWO.

Nice setup. I'm going for mouse for right hand plus T.16000M for left hand.
I got the same input about joystick as throttle being not precise because of little joystick movement altering speed.
But you just wrote it yourself how to do it.
And if MW:O is anything like the other games you will have a button to make a full stop.
Problem solved, case closed.

#13 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:39 PM

Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks (and that specific person who brought this to my attention)

#14 Uri Brauer

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

Updated script in OP for mapping axes to move / targeting controls per Dev Blog 5.

#15 Technoviking

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:25 PM

Man just thinking about how cool that would be with pedals....





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