176 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Mickey Knoxx, on 23 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

While some are still viable, lights play like crap now with the locust exception. So ya, thats the one light players are going to play most.

Not true. I am doing very good in a short range Raven. That chassis got slightly larger with the rescale and isn't, and never has been even close to being easy mode short range. The Raven 4X is an excellent long range mech though and always has been. The rescale improved balance for the most part as it stands.

A reminder that this is the toughest game to balance ever made and balance isn't to bad at this moment. Any slight improvements are just excellent.

Locust is avoiding damage in the extreme at the moment and will be getting nerfed as a pretty easy guess.

The Arctic Cheddar is and always has been the strongest light mech since it came out, by a mile.

The Oxide was never easy mode for legit players. I expect the Oxide and other Jenners are in a good spot right now.

For any new players, lights have to be going 140+ to do well in and cant stop or slow down while in a fight even for a moment. This goes for Cicada's and maybe the Phoenix Hawk to, 130+.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 June 2016 - 02:49 AM.

[adamts01]

Johnny Z, on 25 June 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Not true. I am doing very good in a short range Raven. That chassis got slightly larger with the rescale and isn't, and never has been even close to being easy mode short range. The Raven 4X is an excellent long range mech though and always has been. The rescale improved balance for the most part as it stands.

Ravens have always been decent. After the range nerf I'd argue the 2x was the best with 2LL, 2 meds and max motor. Better on heat, very adaptable. My favorite is still the 2xsrm4, 3 med 3L. Since most of their competition got significantly larger and more sluggish, you should be doing a little better than normal in it. My point is, you can't make your argument based on a mech that somewhat benefited from this patch, like your Raven, the Cheetah or Commando. My Locust is better than ever, but I'm not going to do well in it and say the light class as a whole is fine, that would be just silly.

[Pjwned]

adamts01, on 24 June 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

Their offensive quirks aren't great at all. Take the 18% cooling, all that does is make the heat neutral to other lights' cooling because the locust only has 7 internal heat sinks. Same with the 5% heat reduction, it doesn't even make up for their lower capacity, due to only 7 internal heat sinks. So now we're talking about 10% range and up to a 25% duration or cooldown, how bad is that when you can at max run a 30 point alpha, and be hot, or a 20-24 point managable alpha? Or are you complaining about the 1v and it's 50% duration and cooldown? As you mentioned, a match has to be looooooong to put out decent damage with a 9 or 11 point alpha, with incredible facetime if you want to talk about dps. Really, the only quirks that make it decent are it's handling quirks, take those away and it's dead in the water. I think they went overboard with the size reduction. Taking away it's minimal offensive quirks will have little effect on the chassis.

The offensive quirks that they do have, combined with the significant armor quirks and the huge armor quirks on their legs, still makes them unbalanced and even more so after the whole chassis got shrunk down in the rescale.

I do realize why the 18% cooling quirk is there, and while I would prefer to see that gone too, that's more because I want to see a proper fix to the problem by addressing how internal & external heatsinks work.

Quirks are a lazy, piss poor way of achieving any kind of balance worth a damn and the game will stay an unbalanced mess so long as quirks stay the way they are.

L3mming2, on 25 June 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

you say there not OP ... so why would they need to have there quirks changed then?? they are balanced now...

Already made the distinction (in that same post) that the mech isn't overpowered but is still not balanced, but if you want to go on further about "OMG HE SAID LOLCUSTS ARE OP LOL I'M NOT GOING TO PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE LOLCUSTS LOL!!!!!!!!" then go ahead and I will just completely ignore you.

If they were balanced then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Weeny Machine]

Lily from animove, on 23 June 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

what negatives? I see many jenner pilots still doing very well, hopefully PGI stops catering the medicore player performance

Geez...your argument is nothing but "if you don't suck it up, you are a baddy". Grow up, girlie.

The light class was hit with multiple nerfs:
1. resize - most mechs are easier to hit
2. higher movement archtype

Even lasers stay now longer on-target because of the combination of nerfs. What that means for the TTK is apparent. Even mouth breathing heavy pilot with their lolalpha laser spam are dangerous now.
Then our little missy comes in and spouts "ged gut!11!"

In games the players gravitate to the most op and easiest to handle class - which is the light mech class with often only 7%...oh crap sorry, I meant the heavy with usually 40ish% +

If you call light easy mode, then I doubt you have played them. Sure, the Oxide was easy mode with its quirks. However, one mech is not a whole class.

[adamts01]

Pjwned, on 25 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

The offensive quirks that they do have, combined with the significant armor quirks and the huge armor quirks on their legs, still makes them unbalanced and even more so after the whole chassis got shrunk down in the rescale.

I do realize why the 18% cooling quirk is there, and while I would prefer to see that gone too, that's more because I want to see a proper fix to the problem by addressing how internal & external heatsinks work.

Quirks are a lazy, piss poor way of achieving any kind of balance worth a damn and the game will stay an unbalanced mess so long as quirks stay the way they are.

I do agree with most of that. With a better heat system we wouldn't need all our quirks. Let just hope Ghost Heat 2.0 is something positive.

Considering the Locust. I would say it's not balanced in the light class. It's the best choice right now for many situations. Everything else is just big and clumsy in comparison. I'd like to see the other lights get some mobility. As a big picture, I'm actually leaning towards it being balanced. The first 2 days it was easy mode, but people have gotten used to them now and I'm getting hit much more often. I'm having to settle down in to my normal Locusting routine, except against other lights, I'll still out-dual any of them, except for very good Oxide pilots.

Their "significant armor quirks": Lets take the 1E for an example. I run 6 armor rear because I spend a good about of time running away after legging something in the backfield. The only part of my torso that can take a single 24 point alpha from another SPL Locust is my fresh CT at 30 points. The legs are 40 points, so that's 2 good shots from another Locust, but realistically 4 bad shots. I actually stopped trying to leg them, those torsos are paper thin. If you see a running Locust, it has around 12-18 total points anywhere on it's back. Chances are he's been grazed with lasers once or twice, you mid-match you can half those amounts, a single PPC, AC10 or Pulse Laser hit and it's game over.

[L3mming2]

Pjwned, on 25 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

The offensive quirks that they do have, combined with the significant armor quirks and the huge armor quirks on their legs, still makes them unbalanced and even more so after the whole chassis got shrunk down in the rescale.

I do realize why the 18% cooling quirk is there, and while I would prefer to see that gone too, that's more because I want to see a proper fix to the problem by addressing how internal & external heatsinks work.

Quirks are a lazy, piss poor way of achieving any kind of balance worth a damn and the game will stay an unbalanced mess so long as quirks stay the way they are.



Already made the distinction (in that same post) that the mech isn't overpowered but is still not balanced, but if you want to go on further about "OMG HE SAID LOLCUSTS ARE OP LOL I'M NOT GOING TO PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE LOLCUSTS LOL!!!!!!!!" then go ahead and I will just completely ignore you.

If they were balanced then there wouldn't be a problem.

before they were rescaled the highest tier locust was tier 3, the rest where tier 4 and 5.. so your problem must be against quirks in genral, cause even with the rescale the best locust still is not t1... i am geting the feeling your "not balanced" means not the way i like it and has very litle to do with actual balance.. but to give you the benefit of the doubt how would you balance all mechs to be (more or less) equaly viable, and is your way a realisticaly optainable goal?

[DarthHias]

Pjwned, on 25 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

If they were balanced then there wouldn't be a problem.

There is only one problem
Always when the OP Light gets nerfed, this time the Oxide, the next one is up to get called for Nerfs.
If you succeed and the Locusts get nerfed all the Light pilots (the 5 guys who do pilot Lights) will go Cheetah. Then the Cheetah will have his place in the sun. #Cheetah OP plz nerf.

The shrinking didn´t increase the Locusts power level a lot.

Edit: Buff all Lights. It would be nice for all of them to be viable choices.

Also since the BK has fallen from grace because of the 5% nerfs I see more Whammys and even Thunderbolts. I would say a nerf is in order right? When I see mechs often they need to be nerfed.

Edited by DarthHias, 26 June 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[Chados]

I think the Locust is fine. I hate the little pests but they can't one-shot you and you thus have a chance to survive an ambush.

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back, or if the RNG deity was kind, I'd get to turn around for one shot back and Oxides in particular are armored like a 50-tonner so that did no good before another 70-point alpha finished me off. Think about that. Missile Jenners, particularly the IIC Jenner, matches a Catapult Butterbee-65 tons-in raw firepower. You want tiny Jenners? Cool. Drop all the armor and structure quirks, nerf missile hardpoints to the point that they pack a total firepower of about 25, and hard lock both Endosteel and Ferro-fibrous to keep launcher sizes and ammo counts down.

[Darian DelFord]

DarthHias, on 26 June 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

There is only one problem
Always when the OP Light gets nerfed, this time the Oxide, the next one is up to get called for Nerfs.
If you succeed and the Locusts get nerfed all the Light pilots (the 5 guys who do pilot Lights) will go Cheetah. Then the Cheetah will have his place in the sun. #Cheetah OP plz nerf.

The shrinking didn´t increase the Locusts power level a lot.

Edit: Buff all Lights. It would be nice for all of them to be viable choices.

Also since the BK has fallen from grace because of the 5% nerfs I see more Whammys and even Thunderbolts. I would say a nerf is in order right? When I see mechs often they need to be nerfed.

Exactly, the heavies and assaults want their cake and to be able to eat it to,

Chados, on 26 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

I think the Locust is fine. I hate the little pests but they can't one-shot you and you thus have a chance to survive an ambush.

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back, or if the RNG deity was kind, I'd get to turn around for one shot back and Oxides in particular are armored like a 50-tonner so that did no good before another 70-point alpha finished me off. Think about that. Missile Jenners, particularly the IIC Jenner, matches a Catapult Butterbee-65 tons-in raw firepower. You want tiny Jenners? Cool. Drop all the armor and structure quirks, nerf missile hardpoints to the point that they pack a total firepower of about 25, and hard lock both Endosteel and Ferro-fibrous to keep launcher sizes and ammo counts down.

Sorry but I have to call WTF are you talking about here...... Name one IS Jenner that could One shot a heavy or an assault?

Answer..... NONE!

Your statement is so confusing its hard to understand.... you are picking and choosing your argument. One word your implying ALL Jenners can do this, then you jumpt an OXIDE which has a 70 point alpha WHICH THEY DON"T.....

You then talk about tiny jenners and you want ALL the structure and armor quirks and hard poitns reduced.... How long have you been playing and have you ever piloted a Jenner?

Just an FYI the ONLY Jenner that has any decent quirks is the OXIDE.... the IIC's have zero, zip, zilch nada for quirks. The IS Jenners are just about as bad. The only reason you see the IIC's played is due to clan weaponry. The IS non oxides are just a joke right now.

Its statements like this that are ill informed and full of Jenner hate that get under my nerves

Your post actually validates a point that I have been trying to make..... ALOT of people lump ALL Jenners together as running killing machines that can one shot an assault from behind, Folks can not apparently differentiate between the chassis.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 26 June 2016 - 04:32 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

@Darian: What you write is so true. My bet that next in line of whining is either the locust or the ACH. The rest of the lights more or less drives like a schoolbus after the archtype change anyway.

The whining will also continue because light mechs are victimes and heavies and assaults are made to dominate all others - ya know moar weaponz and armour and weaaaponzzz!1!!!1

Chados, on 26 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back,

1. Don't reduce your back armour's value to 1 - else a one-shot is hardly possible
2. Use seismic whenever possible
3. Learn to have situational awareness and don't get lost in the lolalpha euphoria your heavy and assaults give you
4. Don't play Rambo. Even if you do not detect an enemy light your mates might. Also they can help you if you get caught flat-footed

I know, these tipps are totally pro and really soooo hard to do considering the severe problems you seem to have. After all light mechs are so terrible op that the vast majoirty of the game plays them (7-10%) and the poor victims of the game, the heavies, which get butchered by the op lights are outumbered (40ish % plus)...oh wait...something is wrong there...can anybody help?

Edit: Darn, Darian beat me and replied before me

Edited by Bush Hopper, 26 June 2016 - 04:36 AM.

[adamts01]

Chados, on 26 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

I think the Locust is fine. I hate the little pests but they can't one-shot you and you thus have a chance to survive an ambush.

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back, or if the RNG deity was kind, I'd get to turn around for one shot back and Oxides in particular are armored like a 50-tonner so that did no good before another 70-point alpha finished me off. Think about that. Missile Jenners, particularly the IIC Jenner, matches a Catapult Butterbee-65 tons-in raw firepower. You want tiny Jenners? Cool. Drop all the armor and structure quirks, nerf missile hardpoints to the point that they pack a total firepower of about 25, and hard lock both Endosteel and Ferro-fibrous to keep launcher sizes and ammo counts down.

WOW.... Where did the Jenner touch you?.... 25 point missile alpha? You mean like a spl Locust size alpha, but with ammo restrictions and short range weapons which spread and you have to lead? And that firepower isn't comperable, while it's stupid a light had a 72 point alpha, it was also severely ammo starved and ran stupid hot. While I agree that Oxides were too strong, you should do yourself and your argument a favor and try playing a light sometime.

[Darian DelFord]

Chados, on 26 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

I think the Locust is fine. I hate the little pests but they can't one-shot you and you thus have a chance to survive an ambush.

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back, or if the RNG deity was kind, I'd get to turn around for one shot back and Oxides in particular are armored like a 50-tonner so that did no good before another 70-point alpha finished me off. Think about that. Missile Jenners, particularly the IIC Jenner, matches a Catapult Butterbee-65 tons-in raw firepower. You want tiny Jenners? Cool. Drop all the armor and structure quirks, nerf missile hardpoints to the point that they pack a total firepower of about 25, and hard lock both Endosteel and Ferro-fibrous to keep launcher sizes and ammo counts down.

What's absolutely hilarious about this post is even GYROK could come up with a better argument, and that is saying something.

[Lightfoot]

No. The Locust still gets one-shotted. The other Lights still carry a lot more and give you about 3-4 mistakes before you get taken out.

[Weeny Machine]

Chados, on 26 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

I think the Locust is fine. I hate the little pests but they can't one-shot you and you thus have a chance to survive an ambush.

Jenners? Long may they be nerfed. I got sick of one-shot, one-kill instagibs in the back, or if the RNG deity was kind, I'd get to turn around for one shot back and Oxides in particular are armored like a 50-tonner so that did no good before another 70-point alpha finished me off. Think about that. Missile Jenners, particularly the IIC Jenner, matches a Catapult Butterbee-65 tons-in raw firepower. You want tiny Jenners? Cool. Drop all the armor and structure quirks, nerf missile hardpoints to the point that they pack a total firepower of about 25, and hard lock both Endosteel and Ferro-fibrous to keep launcher sizes and ammo counts down.

Here. A form from Dr. Bush Hopper. Extra for you.

[Aiden Skye]

And somewhere, in a dark dusty long forgotten corner, my Mistlynx's are crying themselves to sleep.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 26 June 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[DarthHias]

That Paper doll mate that is pure gold. Mind if i borrow it?

Buff Myst Lynx´s!! Make the Lynx great again!! Would be the most hilarious thing to have #LynsOPPGIplznerf threads

[Weeny Machine]

DarthHias, on 26 June 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

That Paper doll mate that is pure gold. Mind if i borrow it?

Thank you. Of course, you can borrow it.

[DarthHias]

I will use it wisely on whiny Assault pilots

[Trauglodyte]

Macster16, on 22 June 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

For IS the LCT-1E seems to have become the new darling. Funny how these things work - when the Phoenix Pack came out, people were giving LCT pilots crap for piloting "the worst mech".

Overall, I'd say Cheetos are once again king of the light pack for now.

To be fair, when the Phoenix Pack came out, the Locust was released with no quirks because quirks didn't exist. Plus, if I remember correctly, that was still at the height of the poptart meta which meant that, if you stuck your nose out too far, you'd get ended in a single volley.

If I had to order them, I'd go:

• 1E
  
• 3M
  
• 3S
  
• 1V
  
• Pirate's Bane
  
• 3V
  
• 1M

The 3S, to me, is an Oxide Light. I run mine with 4x SRM2s, 2.5 tons of ammo, and a Small Laser on an almost max armored chassis and a 190xl. I like the 1E but the 3M was my original favorite - the 1E came out afterwards, along with a few others, and it kind of obsoletes the 3M. But, those top 5 are still solid. Sadly, the 1M and 3V just suck. A Locust that loses a hard point and gains nothing else is pretty weak.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 26 June 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Trauglodyte, on 26 June 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

To be fair, when the Phoenix Pack came out, the Locust was released with no quirks because quirks didn't exist. Plus, if I remember correctly, that was still at the height of the poptart meta which meant that, if you stuck your nose out too far, you'd get ended in a single volley.

If I had to order them, I'd go:

• 1E
  
• 3M
  
• 3S
  
• 1V
  
• Pirate's Bane
  
• 3V
  
• 1M

The 3S, to me, is an Oxide Light. I run mine with 4x SRM2s, 2.5 tons of ammo, and a Small Laser on an almost max armored chassis and a 190xl. I like the 1E but the 3M was my original favorite - the 1E came out afterwards, along with a few others, and it kind of obsoletes the 3M. But, those top 5 are still solid. Sadly, the 1M and 3V just suck. A Locust that loses a hard point and gains nothing else is pretty weak.

I would probably rank them this way:

LCT-1V
LCT-3S
LCT-1E
LCT-3M
LCT-PB
LCT-1M
LCT-3V

The 1V has range, juking ability, and weapon quirks to be a very good poke 'Mech. It fires that LPL so fast it can use it up close reasonably, too. It also has strong durability buffs. The range mitigates its squishiness to an extent.

The 3S, as you say, is an Oxide Lite. It has similar DPS, but delivered in smaller packets and with less durability and ammo. It is, however, way faster and I think much harder to hit. It basically turns in place while running full-tilt and it's awesome. Super dangerous up close, eats Ravens and Arctic Cheetahs and Jenner IIC for breakfast. Actually isn't too shabby dueling an Oxide, either, if you can keep some range.

LCT-1E is a solid all-rounder. 6xML is decent poke, but since it's only 324 meters you are never at a safe distance and that's its downfall. Solid striker, though, but I wouldn't call it comp-worthy.

LCT-3M is superior to the 1E for running an SPL build. It's colder, it's faster. Personally, though, I recommend it with 3xMPL and a pair of SL. Same alpha as the LCT-1E for a tiny bit more burn time (SL and MPL sync almost perfectly, like cERML and cLPL) and better range. The SPL *might* be comp-capable, but the MPL are infinitely better for quick-play.

Pirate's Bane...eh. It's okay. It has ECM and that's cool, but it doesn't do anything the 1E, 3M, or 3S can't do better.

1M is my baby, but it's hard-mode. You have to expose frequently to get the damage out and its weapons can't really be dedicated to any one bracket, If you do SRM4 and SL, you aren't doing anything the 3S won't do better. The 'Mech is more appropriately played with a pair of SRM2 and ML. It's...not good but over a longer game it can be quite nasty.

LCT-3V, I own it because Locust. Otherwise, don't bother. It has nothing at all going for it over any other variant.