161 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 June 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

MW4 came out 17 years ago, it is still a better game in pretty much all aspects compared to MWO. UI very much being one of them.

Sry, but



Ok ok, one should't laugh about other peoples opinion. I just couldn't help it.

[Johnny Z]

This was a very strong finishing update to whats already in game with the addition of an important basic feature, com wheel. It was not a major content update or expansion. Some major features are missing from the game still. There has not been more than a trickle of actual content since closed beta..... Although some pretty major features, some entirely new to the industry and ground breaking, have been added steadily.

Should players be freaking out in a negative way? Nope, but its hard to get to excited as well.

I still remember someone saying "big things in July" and I hope he wasn't talking about last year or next year.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 June 2016 - 05:06 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Aresye, on 23 June 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Take it for what it's worth, but even with the slower but larger monthly patches, I believe PGI by itself still hasn't had as much time working on the game as they had under IGP.

In other words, the amount of fixes and new features PGI has implemented in the time period that they alone have been in charge of the game is MASSIVE compared to the amount in the time period they were working under IGP. Sure, they still make mistakes and bone headed decisions at times (ex: mapageddon), but this game is massively better now.

- Balance between Clan and IS is as close as it's ever been.
- Frame rates, stability, hitreg, etc. is better than it's ever been (improvement is still needed).
- Dozens of various chassis and loadouts are viable.
- Multiple play styles (ex: brawling, laser spam, etc) are viable.
- Search times, matchmaking quality, tonnage balance, etc. is much better now than it was before.

I still find the game to be rather stale at times, leading to burnout, frustration, etc, but I don't for a second ever wish to be back in the IGP days of this game, much less closed-beta days.

+ the game has not turned into p2w most companies would have done that already.

PhoenixFire55, on 23 June 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

No sh!t Sherlock. Just like every other post on the forum. Except yours, its just spam.

no facts as some people give are not opinions.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 June 2016 - 05:02 AM.

[wanderer]

bLeeat, on 23 June 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

How many more disappointing patch's do we have to go through before people realize they are paying pgi to be beta testers?

Zero. The whole game started with Founders paying to be beta testers. PGI never stopped.

Quote

wasn't this suppose to be the big patch? the game changer? and all it came down to was the mini map? the mini map was broken but.. cmaaawn how disoriented can you be on a map you already played a thousand times.

Now how bad was the map for newer players, on the other hand? And it was useless for what I needed it for- tracking my team. It's -still- missing parts from the original map system I find very useful, since for some reason Russ thinks that basics like "which way is the enemy facing" are apparently superinforwarfare you should stick 3 tons of command console in your robot to get.

Quote

and the new frozen city map... couldnt they have just renamed it and kept the old frozen city? why is pgi being so stingy with maps? will any one be suprised if they start trying to sell us maps?

Follow the money- Frozen was the fastest possible map (you could finish a round in under 2:30), meaning replacing it helped extend the grind to levels other maps resulted in. Now it's got more time burned in getting to the fight.

PyckenZot, on 23 June 2016 - 03:10 AM, said:

People asked for a wider FoV on the minimap.
People asked for rescaling
Come to think of it, I even remember people wanting Long Tom

We've asked them to sell the game to someone competent, but that got about the same results since PGI bought the rights from IGP instead. Monkey's paws all round!

[mailin]

Bud Crue, on 23 June 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Sorry to quibble but that is not quite what happened here.

I too agree that most of the patch was good. But, the minimap that we got with the patch was advertised and even shown by Russ during the town hall. For the next day the forums lit up with essentially "boy does that look like a stupid change". Once it dropped, the community for the most part said "yep that is terribad". Then Russ tweets that the thing he just showed us during the townhall was a mistake that slipped through and would be fixed.

What? If it was a mistake why were you just advertising it? No, it wasn't a mistake, and once again it was the community whose input was necessary to get it fixed, and imo Russ can't handle that reality...that we often do know what is better for his game.

Yes PGI it is your game. As such you can of course change that product however you want. Ignore customer feedback of those changes at your peril. That's your business. No problem. But here's a tip: whatever you do please just stop insulting us. That's bad business no matter what one thinks of the product.

I don't think PGI fully realized how strong the community reaction to the minimap was going to be. Perhaps someone, maybe it was Russ or maybe someone else, convinced PGI that this was going to be a good thing and that the reaction at the Town Hall from the outliers. However, once the larger community responded to it, PGI in their defense adjusted it.

There are two factors here that are very important to realize.

1) We don't know if PGI has a plan for how they would eventually like the minimap to work and look considering info warfare, as well as other features. This could be a step along the way and for whatever reason the old minimap maybe didn't work with their overall vision.

2) PGI did respond and fix the minimap after the community outrage. They could have done nothing, which is what they did with ghost heat. There was similar outrage at that (although it didn't seem quite as strong) and now we all just pretty much accept it.

No matter what happens, as long as it happens to all of us, balance is maintained. We don't have to like it, but this is the game that we have to play, until something better comes along.

[RussianWolf]

Frechdachs, on 23 June 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

I went to bed frustrated with a mini map that often made me run face-first into the nearest wall or mountainside, I woke up and they had fixed it. Sweet. They fixed the functionality of a feature overnight because we asked for it 0.o

Yeah, I'm spending money.

Quote

at PGI HQ

"Hey guys.... Item A is working perfectly for everyone it seems.... Let's FIX IT"

Proceeds to THINK of new fixes for that which isn't broken

Gives players the new FIXED item A.

Players can't use it as it works in the polar opposite way as the previous version

"Okay, we'll fix it"

And revert to something similar but with some information being traded.

I don't pay for them to fix things that didn't need to be messed with in the first place.

[RussianWolf]

Bud Crue, on 23 June 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

But here's a tip: whatever you do please just stop insulting us. That's bad business no matter what one thinks of the product.

He shows up to a meeting with customers after drinking....... need I say more?

[DaZur]

Not to point out the obvious but as a modular / growth by patch project, by definition this game will always be in some state of beta.

Try being part of the solution instead of the problem by playing and providing substantive feedback instead of salty grousing.

[PyckenZot]

wanderer, on 23 June 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

Zero. The whole game started with Founders paying to be beta testers. PGI never stopped.

Welcome to F2P land. It's been around for awhile and across many genres, I'd imagine people knew by now.

wanderer, on 23 June 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

for some reason Russ thinks that basics like "which way is the enemy facing" are apparently superinforwarfare you should stick 3 tons of command console in your robot to get.

Maybe because it was superinfoproviding. I have always been intrigued by this. Agreed, superusefull. But so darn OP!

wanderer, on 23 June 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

We've asked them to sell the game to someone competent, but that got about the same results since PGI bought the rights from IGP instead. Monkey's paws all round!

Some here indeed did. But I'm humble enough to admit I can't speak to their competence as I haven't got a clue how to code all this MMO shooter stuff and obtain a fairly decent product whilst being in a small studio. But I for one am glad someone who could took Mechwarrior and gave me this game. I fear the day some big publisher gets their hands on the franchise and start milking it.

Edited by PyckenZot, 23 June 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[Johnny Z]

mailin, on 23 June 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

I don't think PGI fully realized how strong the community reaction to the minimap was going to be. Perhaps someone, maybe it was Russ or maybe someone else, convinced PGI that this was going to be a good thing and that the reaction at the Town Hall from the outliers. However, once the larger community responded to it, PGI in their defense adjusted it.

There are two factors here that are very important to realize.

1) We don't know if PGI has a plan for how they would eventually like the minimap to work and look considering info warfare, as well as other features. This could be a step along the way and for whatever reason the old minimap maybe didn't work with their overall vision.

2) PGI did respond and fix the minimap after the community outrage. They could have done nothing, which is what they did with ghost heat. There was similar outrage at that (although it didn't seem quite as strong) and now we all just pretty much accept it.

No matter what happens, as long as it happens to all of us, balance is maintained. We don't have to like it, but this is the game that we have to play, until something better comes along.

Like ive already said, the new mini map is way more sim and less gloss. A good direction I think. Especially in the long run.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 June 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[CK16]

The amount of salt in this thread is almost a threat to any local ecosystem and could cause years of crop failure o.O

Honestly PGI is doing alot better job imo lately, sure nothing is perfect....sure PGI did and has made so mistakes.....They fixed them though Ina very timely manor (still rather humored by the whole I am quiting the game over this minimap change.....). Go back to sharpening your pitch forks folks....The scary mini map monster is dead....the rest of the patch was really good imo and if we get this sort of quality in the next ones I am very excited and PGI seems to have a good game plan here....

Also love the raging over patches yet never give good feedback to what PGI should do....All most post that hate the patch, hate everything about PGI(probably ***** about a free mech also) but you guys just rage saying "PGI you suck!" And that is all you scream....it's childish, grow up quit or keep playing and find a way to give decent feedback.....

Edited by CK16, 23 June 2016 - 06:23 AM.

[Deathlike]

I'm just going to say this..

PGI's going to do what they want to do.. unless the money stops flowing. It's not unrealistic to expect this. It doesn't take much for any company to immediately respond when the reduction in cash flow is imminent. It doesn't matter whether you are as big as EA or Blizzard... if you have a severe legitimate perception issue, it will translate into bad things down the line.


Much as I've slowly declined to care, the thing is I've pretty much passive-aggressively fed PGI tips to fix itself.. and while I can't say every suggestion is perfect (heck, I'll make mistakes too), but PGI is not really one to listen to that (it probably doesn't take much to get blocked from Russ from twitter - even if you mean well and state your case in a non-confrontational fashion). You can't always lead a horse (PGI) to water (money).. because once that arse needs water (being thirsty), it'll be drowning in no time (being held responsible by people refunding their orders at least - even if a person rebuys the pack - the cost of all the actions costs PGI money).


Just remember that this minimap change was going to stick around for AT LEAST a month if PGI decided not to do anything about it. Only because people threatened every which way, is when Russ had to respond. That's not healthy. All of this was preventable by all the people providing immediate feedback... here and those internal to PGI. You always have to question someone's decision making... even if just for paranoia - you have to cover all your basis and make sure what you're doing is ACTUALLY the best for your consumers. The excessive whining in the forums only reaffirms this.


I mean, we're going to hit another rock in the road that is "Ghost Heat v2" and it may not take much to repeat this cycle all over again. While we will get a PTS... if PGI refuses to read and listen to any/all of the feedback provided and goes forward with it (unchanged or with minimal changes)... well, we'll be back here to the same ****storm that just happened before.


It's really on PGI and Russ to actually listen, and not just "do it just for the sake of doing". Ironically this is why we're here again (this isn't the first time) where a bad decision only serves to hurt everyone as whole, even if well-intentioned. They still have to improve and refine everything that needs work and being complacent about it doesn't help motivate them and their consumers.


The relationship has to go both ways... that's the thing about developing a product.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 June 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[SteelBruiser]

bLeeat, on 23 June 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

How many more disappointing patch's do we have to go through before people realize they are paying pgi to be beta testers?

wasn't this suppose to be the big patch? the game changer? and all it came down to was the mini map? the mini map was broken but.. cmaaawn how disoriented can you be on a map you already played a thousand times.

and the new frozen city map... couldnt they have just renamed it and kept the old frozen city? why is pgi being so stingy with maps? will any one be suprised if they start trying to sell us maps?

A new patch and a new warning about spending money on this game.

So, if we do abandon this game, because that's what we'd be doing if everyone quit spending money on it, what game would you prefer we spend money on and play? Where are you spending your money? What franchise would you prefer we help you promote? I mean, you must have the perfect game in mind to which you reference all of PGI's horrific mistakes. I agree when you say say people criticize the game because they want it to get better. You say you just want to give PGI the message that they need to change however, you go past just criticizing to demanding we quit funding PGI. That is effectively promoting the eventual shut down of the company. Have you ever tried to fix a car without any cash flow? It doesn't work. Nothing gets fixed and you end up tossing out the car and walking. I myself, for all it's quirks, like this car. It's not perfect, it steers a bit odd at times, but it is getting better so I will continue to provide cash flow as I see fit.

[RussianWolf]

SteelBruiser, on 23 June 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

A new patch and a new warning about spending money on this game.

So, if we do abandon this game, because that's what we'd be doing if everyone quit spending money on it, what game would you prefer we spend money on and play? Where are you spending your money? What franchise would you prefer we help you promote? I mean, you must have the perfect game in mind to which you reference all of PGI's horrific mistakes. I agree when you say say people criticize the game because they want it to get better. You say you just want to give PGI the message that they need to change however, you go past just criticizing to demanding we quit funding PGI. That is effectively promoting the eventual shut down of the company. Have you ever tried to fix a car without any cash flow? It doesn't work. Nothing gets fixed and you end up tossing out the car and walking. I myself, for all it's quirks, like this car. It's not perfect, it steers a bit odd at times, but it is getting better so I will continue to provide cash flow as I see fit.

didn't play a "new" game for 5 years before this one came out. If it dies and nothing replaces it that is a Mechwarrior game, then I'd go back to making money in my "off-time".

Right now, I'd get my basement reno done faster. lol

[Claxton Weathers]

I've spent $60 dollars for complete games, I've wasted much more than that on this game in hopes of getting an actual complete game, however thats not the case and PGI sits there twiddling their fingers waiting for people to buy the next big thing just to be disappointed again. Russ is a conman and should be treated the same as he has treated this loyal community. PGI has taken advantage of people in the most disgusting way of capitalism, using your emotion against you. I opened the game yesterday to play a few drops and was just disgusted and got right back out and played another game. It'll probably be a permanent fix to a permanent problem...

[CK16]

Claxton Weathers, on 23 June 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

snip

Yet again...why! You go off saying this sucks! With no reasons besides something you don't like....keep calm now, no need to type a full rage novel....spell it out...WHAT DO YOU WANT PGI TO DO! Keep it realistic too, meaning cost, time, man power, ect....

[Mystere]

Frechdachs, on 23 June 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

I went to bed frustrated with a mini map that often made me run face-first into the nearest wall or mountainside, I woke up and they had fixed it. Sweet. They fixed the functionality of a feature overnight because we asked for it 0.o

Yeah, I'm spending money.

Well, it looks like you took the bait -- hook, line, and sinker.

[Lehmund]

This is a ridiculously idiotic thread on the face of it.

It's simple:

If you are here posting, it's either you're a troll or you care about the game.

If you are part of the latter group (I hope), then stop complaining about stuff and just write constructive criticism or ideas for the community and PGI to consider. Those are USEFUL.

All the whining with no point attached is a waste of time.

We can help improve the game here, let's use that time to do exactly that.

[RussianWolf]

Lehmund, on 23 June 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

This is a ridiculously idiotic thread on the face of it.

It's simple:

If you are here posting, it's either you're a troll or you care about the game.

If you are part of the latter group (I hope), then stop complaining about stuff and just write constructive criticism or ideas for the community and PGI to consider. Those are USEFUL.

All the whining with no point attached is a waste of time.

We can help improve the game here, let's use that time to do exactly that.

Russ has said pretty bluntly that our advice and opinions are not needed..... they know what they are doing.

[QuantumButler]

RussianWolf, on 23 June 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Russ has said pretty bluntly that our advice and opinions are not needed..... they know what they are doing.

A statement that should make any intelligent MWO player very, very scared for the future of this game.