25 replies to this topic

[BasicMountain]

Hi there everyone hope you're all well. So I'm pretty new to the game, been playing for a few days now, just trying out the trial mechs. I would like your advice on what would be a good mech to pair with my friend (we both started together and buying our first mechs soon) and he has settled on a blackjack 3, wanting to give it 3-4 medium lasers and 2 ppc. So what would compliment that? I have no personal preference regarding weight class and I like the look of most mechs so I'm all good for suggestions of whatever. The only other thing I'll add is I'll likely play solo a bunch when he's not on, if solo play changes recommendations. Thanks for your time

Edited by BasicMountain, 24 June 2016 - 04:57 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I would suggest a mech that can go as fast as his.

I like the Hellbringer, it moves pretty quick and can carry ECM to help allies out and block them from being targeted and hit by LRMs. It also uses omnipods which allow it to swap its hardpoints, so its very versatile if you get bored with a build. Its a great mech for solo play and in groups.

One very important thing though is that Black Jack is an Inner Sphere mech and Hellbringer is a Clan mech, they can't be allies in Faction Warfare, so you wouldn't be able to team up with him there, but you can in the normal group play queues.

[Bud Crue]

Not really sure about "complimenting" mechs or builds when just speaking of two. For you both it really comes down to first learning what play style you like and then choosing a mech to match. A BJ-3 is a fine mech, tough for a medium, excellent hardpoint locations, fairly mobile. Much the same could be said for a Hunchback, or Griffin. But what do you like? Play a bunch of trials first before spending your cash.

[Tigven]

Hello,
I recommend you or your friend to try out this build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5b4a588dc4ea32b

Quote

The BJ-1 comes in with 15+20% cooldown and 5+20% heat gen for AC/2s, along with 20% ballistic range, 30% ballistic velocity, and 10% energy range. That’s all on top of 17° of extra torso twist (which was already higher than most of the other BJs) and a 30% boost to torso twist speed and those structure quirks. Really spectacular stuff.

It looks ridiculously hot, but it’s basically heat neutral with just the AC/2s and most of the time that’s all you’re using. And it’s also the first time I’ve enjoyed using AC/2s. They fire super-fast, they fly super-fast, and they’re nice and high mounted to boot. Was really surprised by the effectiveness.You should be basically holding down the AC/2 buttons for the whole game, adding in the Mediums whenever you have the heat and the enemy is within range.

Source: http://metamechs.com...ides/blackjack/

It really is a fantastic mech, and IMHO AC/2 works so much better than PPC. The ammo on this beast is enough to deal 1000 damage before it runs out. The quirks just got even better with +5% range on AC/2 some days ago.

Eventually you will want to buy 3 variants of the same mech, to upgrade the skills and to buy extra modules (although modules cost a fortune for a new player in C-Bills and in GXP).
Remember, never spend GXP on mechs, spend it only on pilot skills.

Edited by Tigven, 24 June 2016 - 05:29 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Try the trial shadowcat.
BJ w/ PPCs is all about poking, and the champion Shadowcat does that very well. Plus you get ECM

[Jables McBarty]

Have you considered the BJ-3?

I've never played the BJ's, but there's something to be said for running two, three, or even four of the same 'mech, particularly at lower brackets of play.

The main advantage is that you guys can stick together, go the same speed, use the same cover, and shoot at the same types of targets. I used to run 3 EBJ-Cs when they were Trial 'mechs, and my friend and I run the trial Vindi together now.

And as owned 'mechs, you can trade build advice and brainstorm on things, learning from each other's mistakes.

Once you guys have more experience and begin to distinguish your preferences and playstyles, it'll start to matter that you find complementary 'mechs. An assault and an assault-tender. A LRMer and a spotter. A squirrel and a brawler.

[Koniving]

BasicMountain, on 24 June 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Hi there everyone hope you're all well. So I'm pretty new to the game, been playing for a few days now, just trying out the trial mechs. I would like your advice on what would be a good mech to pair with my friend (we both started together and buying our first mechs soon) and he has settled on a blackjack 3, wanting to give it 3-4 medium lasers and 2 ppc. So what would compliment that? I have no personal preference regarding weight class and I like the look of most mechs so I'm all good for suggestions of whatever. The only other thing I'll add is I'll likely play solo a bunch when he's not on, if solo play changes recommendations. Thanks for your time

Assuming that eventually you want to get into faction play, I suggest sticking to Inner Sphere mechs this way you two can drop together.
You could, of course, compliment his Blackjack with another Blackjack, or in the somewhat heavier categories, a Jagermech or Rifleman as they fill very similar roles but also bring a smidge of tanking ability as well as bigger guns at the cost of having to consume more weight with a big engine to keep the same pace.

There's also the Hunchback, which can be used to carry just a bit more punch and to be 'more aware' than your friend with really impressive torso twist. Particularly with the 4P and 4G models for the hard, heavy punches. Or to provide other kinds of support, the 4J and 4SP models are really good to use for protection against lights up to heavies.

To both support him with range combat and take care of pests up close, might I suggest Shadowhawks which are like 'bigger' Hunchbacks at 55 tons, with a shoulder cannon but also still having room for missiles (like Streak SRMs) to help deal with enemy lights that might be too fast for either of you to shoot... as Streaks (almost) never miss! Be sure to include a BAP (Beagle Active Probe) on the build with the Streaks to deal with pesky ECM use.

If your friend likes to play range and you want to play something that gets a bit closer, consider a light scout mech that can help him spot enemies and still fight (so something in the 35 ton range). Jenners especially. Or if you prefer to be more hefty, you really cannot go wrong with a Battlemaster.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

By 'compliment', I assume you mean you're looking for a mech that synergizes well with your friend's, and not one that tell your friend how beautiful his mech looks in that light.

Here's the problem, though. UNLESS you're playing in a private lobby match in 2v2, it doesn't matter MUCH. There are going to be 10 other mechs on the team with the two of you in every match, and the overall team composition and disposition kinda dictate what works and what doesn't (and if that push up to the top platform will leave you in your XL Fattlemaster hanging alone, or if someone else will actually come with you since HE called the push in the first f***ing place). Yes, I am a serial overuser of parenthesis. I'm back on my meds, though.

So, really, the best advice there is, says that you should figure out what YOU enjoy playing. Play that. And the two of you can figure out THEN what works, tactics-wise, for your dynamic duo. Play YOUR game, player. It'll always, ALWAYS, be better that way...

[Rhavin]

If you want to stick to innersphere mechs I would suggest the warhammer as a great heavy mech with great speed that can really pour some damage out and distract an enemy so your friends blackjack can tear off some rear armor. This would be great for quickplay together or when you drop solo.

If you are wanting to do some faction warfare scouting to earn some mechbays then a mech like the Griffens ECM variant would be a great choice, shadowhawk or hunchback could also work well. KonivingS suggestion of streak srms and/or pulse lasers is very effective against light mechs and other mediums.

When I and my best friend drop together we tend to run vomit warhammer/ dakka maurader or hellbringer/dakka ebon jaguar. We find one mech with high heat laser vomit and one with high dps low heat scary dakka works well allowing for us to focus fire a mech with the ability of the vomit boat to step back and cool off whike the dakka mech keeps rocking the cockpit. Running an AC 2 blackjack and a Laser vomit Blackjack could work well too I reckon.

Ultimately though, the mechs that you two will have the most success in are the ones you enjoy playing. If your not haveing fun together then you are missing the point of the game.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

More to the point, and kinda following up on Rhavin's post (as well as some above), we should consider HOW you wish to work together with your friend.

Do you want to scout/spot for him? You'll want a really fast, agile, hard-to-hit light mech. I'm not sure that the Jenners fit that description any more. There's been some discussion of how the rescale affected them, but no final say yet. Otherwise, JR7-IIC(O) and -IIC-A were solid picks. Arctic Cheetah is still amazingly good (had some great matches in my own over the past couple hours). Locust is suddenly on the radar again, as the tiniest mech in game by a long shot, and one of the very fastest, and a heavily-quirked one at that. It's also cheap as dirt. Recommendations? ACH (any), LCT (-1V, -1E, -PB), SDR-5K for a distant 3rd place. And keep an eye on discussion of the Jenners; if they don't wind up falling TOO far down the favorites list, then -IIC, -IIC-A, and -O (Oxide hero) are all solid choices.

Do you want to play bodyguard brawler? There are so many choices, it's hard to really recommend one. Okay, though. Let's consider that you'll want to keep up with your pal, and his max speed should be around 82.4 km/h I think, with the max 235 engine. So any mech that's comfy at 81.0 is fair game. That knocks out a lot of mechs, though. Black Knight is out. Warhammer is out. If we leave out MASC-enabled, then Executioner and Spirit Bear are out. Quickdraw is a solid choice, as you have options with missile hardpoints that are relatively decent at brawling and skirmishing, and a 60-tonner isn't exactly light on armor next to a Blackjack. Also has jump jet capability, so it can keep up going over the hills on Canyon Network (where your pal's BJ really shines, BTW). Griffin is another fine choice; it's highly mobile and can pack a ridiculous short-range punch. Recommendations? GRF (-3M, -2N), QKD (-4G, -4H), TBR (w/TBR-S CT, LT, or RT).

Say you want to throw down more dakka with your buddy, but also maybe show him what's up with it. Right, so the options are MANY and VARIED. WHM-BW is perhaps the best HEAVY dakka mech in the game right meow. I mean, it's STUPID good. Slower than the BJ, and without JJs, but will out-power the thing easily. Jagermech and Rifleman both do fine at this, too, and can run nearly identical loadouts to one another. And they can be coaxed to nearly the same speeds as the BJ, though with a little sacrifice. Running ~7 km/h behind that BJ, though, is quite doable. Shadow Hawk has a couple of nice options for you, as well, that bring comparable mobility and MO DAKKA. And the HBK-IIC(O) (and to a lesser extent IMO, the IIC-C) is a kickin' partner. So, recommendations? HBK-IIC(O), SHD (-2H, -5M), JM6-DD, RFL (-3N, -3C, -LK), and HBK-IIC(O).

Wanna throw laser vomit in there to supplement the dakka? OH YOU NAUGHTY BOY! There's so much you can do! Off the top of my head, though, I'd say to roll with the BJ-3 and BJ-1X. The -3 has the same engine cap as the -1, and it has JJs. The -1X has a much higher engine cap, but no JJs. Both are badass energy boats for the 45-ton category, and the bonus is that you two can play Wonder Twins. Even do matching his/hers paint jobs! (Next come monogrammed towels, though, and that's more than we need to know. We're HAPPY for you, though! )

But again, figure out your own game, and then the two of you can work out how to make YOUR style and HIS style work together as a team, to the benefit of yourselves AND the other 10 players you get matched up with.

Have fun, and PLAY YOUR GAME PLAYER!

[Biadetic]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Great info and advice. Turns out it was a foolish idea on my behalf as as things go, people try new mechs and focus on different things so the Blackjack part is pretty irrelevant but I took on what you all said about just taking something that works well as part of a team. Currently playing ShadowHawks, I'm a fan of the AC weapons. Tempted to go for something with a little more punch in the dakka. Considering a Rifleman.

[Coralld]

I just want to say that PPCs can have wonky hit detection when firing 2 at the same time, however, when chain fired, their hit detection works with out problems, so get use to that. Fortunately you can chain fire PPCs rather fast like lasers.

As for your self to compliment him, well, get another BJ or give us a list of mechs you are interested in.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Biadetic, on 27 June 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

Thanks for the replies everyone! Great info and advice. Turns out it was a foolish idea on my behalf as as things go, people try new mechs and focus on different things so the Blackjack part is pretty irrelevant but I took on what you all said about just taking something that works well as part of a team. Currently playing ShadowHawks, I'm a fan of the AC weapons. Tempted to go for something with a little more punch in the dakka. Considering a Rifleman.

ROFLman is cool, but if it's all the same to you then I'd consider the Jagermech as well. Pretty much the same thing, only 5 tons heavier. Pretty powerful, though. The extra little bit of available weight lets it do some interesting stuff, like the 3x UAC/5 JM6-DD build (which is BRUTAL). Dual-Gauss is reasonable achievable with it (the JM6-A(C) champion build, for instance). And Jagermech has one variant that can accommodate missiles, whereas ROFLman has none. On the other hand, ROFLman has an all-energy variant which the JM6 lacks.

Overall, the Jagers are ever so slightly better IMO, but ROFLman is still a good enough mech.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I got three words for you:

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Battlemaster!

[Biadetic]

Yeah I think I want to give the assault route a go. You got a particular BattleMaster build that's meant to be good? On the topic of Assault mechs, do you always want to be in medium / short range? Obviously being a noob, an Assault mech sitting back shooting seems quite the opposite of what it is meant to do? Thanks

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Biadetic, on 27 June 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

Yeah I think I want to give the assault route a go. You got a particular BattleMaster build that's meant to be good?

Rich mans mech:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...94f26bd2fa1ab11

Poor mans mech:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44eedee90914e82

Now- for the explination why I recommend this mech.

If you are both running 3+ Large Pulse Lasers, it makes focusing down targets much easier!

The height allows you to fire over your homie should the situation forces yo to do so (like when manuvering around him, or if he is reversing into cover and accidentally reverses into you at some angle, at least you can support him without clipping into his rear).

You can also shield for him should the need arises, since the 2C varient has some pretty nice armor values.

Just make sure to control your heat- by using peaka-boo tacktics!

Edit: for the 5LPL mech, group the top 3 to group 1 and the bottom 2 to group 2. Thats seperated left torso and right torso. Bring coolshots- cuz this mech runs hot!!! And try not to fire all 5 simultaneously unless its desperate (or you can hide and cool off after), instead stagger fire between groups 1 and 2.

Also, on a side note, I recommend a low sensitivity; I personally run .16 to .18 depending on my mech. (Very close to the left end of the bar).

Biadetic, on 27 June 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

On the topic of Assault mechs, do you want to be in medium / short range? Obviously being a noob, an Assault mech sitting back shooting seems quite the opposite of what it is meant to do? Thanks

Ok so here we have a common misunderstanding of peeka-boo tactics.

First of, theres a difference between a "push" and a "rush".

A rush is a strategy where, like the name implies, you rush to your opponents as fast as possible before they can defensively setup.

A push is a strategy where you take your teams forces in a coordinated attack against the enemy in the form of a strong united front and "push" into the enemy forces (hopefully trying to exploit some form of advantage like out numbering their force).

Now to discuss peeka-boo tactics. This is done by hiding behind cover, then bearing just enough of your profile to unload your firepower, in a surprise attack fashion, and then proceeding to return behind cover. (With laser boats, you use this time to cool of your heat). You then continue to "Trade" blows with your opponents until you can create a advantageous situation where your team can then push into your opponents and overwhelm them with superiority.

Now keep in mind, being an assault pilot does not mean you haphazardly sacrifice your mech for no reason. This is a common misconception among many non-assault players. While it is true, an assault mech generally has more armor value then other weight classes, it does not have an infinant supply of armor. This leads us to the next topic:

Sharing armor values among team mates is vital to creating the snow ball effect of superiority through numbers! All mechs, especially heavies AND assaults should be present at the front lines should a push occure, with the mechs with the most armor value (regardless of weight class) at the front. And when those team mates rapidly loose armor, other team mates should then pick up the role and move to the front- once again- regardless of weight class.

The team with the numbers advantage usually has a firepower advantage, and thats how you create snowball effects. 12 x 11 means you have 1 more person that can contribute to focus fire, while also giving thr opponent 1 more variable to target!

Because of this, most games at the higher tiers, start off with a phase where both teams will trade against each other while at the same time trying to out-maneuver their opponent. And once an advantages situation arrives, a quick deciding push will usually ensue.

Edit: on a side note- a common tactic a lot of teams employ- is to send out the extremelly fast and mobile light mechs first during the push. They try to have the enemies fire their first alpha- (and hopfully dodge the incomming fire) while also creating mass confusion or panic among the enemy ranks; so that when the heavies and assaults come in, they only have to deal with one or two incomming alpha strikes. This maneuver allows the heavies and assaults to have superiority in number of outgoing alpha strikes. This also allows scouting for focus targeting- since the lights can visually coordinate with the team who to target, while the enemy must frantically try and find their focus targets while also manuvering so they dont get assassinated by the light mechs that are now at their rear armor.

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 29 June 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

Battlemasters are quaint.

But if its an adrenaline rush you're looking for... Stay away from the extra tonnage and skyscraper mechs...

Pilot a light. Get in, get out.
Shoot them in the back and be gone before they can even turn to face you.

I recommend the Raven. Not quite as fast a locust, but a bit more well built in my opinion than a spider.

I'm built like AT&T... I can reach out and touch somebody.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

^^^^

Ravens are good for this, and the rescale was not unkind to them. That said...

ARCTIC CHEETAH FTW. You will learn the hit-n-run. You will learn to manage heat. You will learn to spread damage. And you will learn more. OR, you will fail.

[Biadetic]

Hey Aleksandr, those links do not work. Can you try again?
Been piloting my Battlemaster 2C a lot recently, been doing pretty well so far ! Would be interested in seeing those builds as I'm struggling to fit in the 5th laser but I did take an XL engine because someone recommended it?

I'll definitely have to try a light next then. I made a couple accounts as it's easier to gather up the c-bills to buy a new mech so I just need one for a light. I've heard the Arctic Cheetah is meant to be real good, they're definitely a pain on the battlefield to versus! haha

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Biadetic, on 29 June 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

Hey Aleksandr, those links do not work. Can you try again?
Been piloting my Battlemaster 2C a lot recently, been doing pretty well so far ! Would be interested in seeing those builds as I'm struggling to fit in the 5th laser but I did take an XL engine because someone recommended it?

I'll definitely have to try a light next then. I made a couple accounts as it's easier to gather up the c-bills to buy a new mech so I just need one for a light. I've heard the Arctic Cheetah is meant to be real good, they're definitely a pain on the battlefield to versus! haha

Huh. Try THIS, if you've got the money and the stones.

Poor man's version? SURE. Slower, hotter, and cheaper.


Quirks don't do much on the BLR-2C, as far as offense goes. 10% Each to missile velocity and energy range. Helps a little with the lasers, but the -2C isn't really a MISSILE mech, so meh. Work up a LPL cooldown and ML range module, and that should be a pretty decent laser vomit mech for you.

Finally, the ACH. It was considered TOO good (cries of OP P2W) when it first hit. Had some minor structure quirks, IIRC, that got ganked. Oxide and JR7-IIC(O) missile meta took over, and most folks forgot the ACH even existed. Now Jenners have been nerfed by upscaling, and the ACH is getting the recognition it deserves. Try one with ECM, 6 cSPLs, and an extra DHS. Trust me. They change lives...