20 replies to this topic

[Gaussfather]

Playing the Phoenix Hawk now... find that it spreads damage quite well and is hard to take down, and having ecm is great. What do the experts think? Time to replace the Black Jack in the Faction Play dropdeck??

[Mcgral18]

...wat?

Replace the BJ?

[ExoForce]

You are kidding..

[thehiddenedge]

Granted the BJ is not what it used to be, but replace it? no way. It still has a lot going for it over the PH

Don't see too many BJ's in faction play anyway.

[jss78]

Gaussfather, on 25 June 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Playing the Phoenix Hawk now... find that it spreads damage quite well and is hard to take down, and having ecm is great. What do the experts think? Time to replace the Black Jack in the Faction Play dropdeck??

I'll agree that what you list are some real good features of the Phoenix Hawk: excellent ability to spread damage, ECM.

The Blackjack however blows the Phoenix Hawk out of the water in terms of firepower, due to the excellent offensive quirks. It also benefits of having broadly similar hardpoints, but in excellent high locations. For CW specifically this means it's Blackjack all the way.

I'm finding the Phoenix Hawk to work out fine in my T2 pug games, but it's a rather different playstyle from a Blackjack, as a mobile and stealthy platform for a couple of long-range guns.

[cazidin]

Is anything better than a good BJ?

[Appogee]

Phoenix Hawk seems relatively tanky, from the fights I've had over the past week...?

I keep blasting the little buggers with SPLs and SSRMs and LBX and they don't go down nearly as quickly as I think they "should", if at all.

I wonder if many people have had time to play much in the upsized BJ since last week's patch, especially given the minimap debacle?

Edited by Appogee, 25 June 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

B.J is still very much superior to the Phoenix hawk.

Better quirks better shape, hard points higher up, the bigger engine size on the PHX does nothing really to compensate as you have to carry less weight in either heat sinks or weapons.

If and only if the PHX's structure quirks were increased by 80% so they were a few points higher than the BJ's then it might be slightly worse a mech, and a possible option for a FW deck, but if your in one of those kinds of units. The DC is still going to want you in a BJ as a 45 ton option.

I like the Phoenix Hawk better than I thought I would, playing it I can almost forget those god awful square laser mounts, but better than the Black Jack not even close

[Myke Pantera]

PHawks hitboxes are rather good, as is the engine cap. Being able to mount ECM is another plus. Unfortunately their hardpoint location and number is mostly below par. I've been disarmed more than in any other mech in my arsenal, and boating smaller weapons isn't really possible except for the 1K and 2, and the 1k lacks JJ and the 2 has everything in the arms again. So while i enjoy it, I don't consider it a good mech from a damage dealing perspective. And that's where all your money and score is coming from. Looks awesome though ^^

[Vashramire]

As a 1 to 1 comparison, the BJ also has no lower arm or hand actuators. That's 4 more critical slots which means the standard 1X build won't fit on the 1K and has to drop a heatsink and has lower slung hard points, less quirks, etc. BJ is going to be top of its weight for a while.

[Ted Wayz]

Vindicator.

Oh wait...

[Gaussfather]

For the record, I love the Black Jack but I'm feeling like a couple Phoenix Hawk variants are quite good and are more durable with XLs than the BJ. Anyway, I haven't mastered them yet so the jury is still out... thanks for your comments. I'll try them in FW once the competition is done and I have them mastered.

[Juodas Varnas]

Vindicators.

Vindicators are so bad, LIKE THE POWER GLOVE

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 25 June 2016 - 11:03 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Well...I guess the volume kinda checks out, so it's not a decider there (aside from the BJ needing to expose less to shoot most of his guns)

[IdolElite]

Really it comes down to hardpoint location and the BJ wins that hands down. I could go more in depth but the other pros and cons aren't enough to make a difference.

Unless the the phoenix hawk gets some killer quirks it'll always be second fiddle.

[Juodas Varnas]

IdolElite, on 26 June 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Really it comes down to hardpoint location and the BJ wins that hands down. I could go more in depth but the other pros and cons aren't enough to make a difference.

Unless the the phoenix hawk gets some killer quirks it'll always be second fiddle.

Well, at least there's one thing Phoenix Hawk has going for it against the Blackjack.

Its designation is not "BJ"

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Hey dude where are my guns? .....

Arms are easy to blow off on the Phoenix Hawk.

[Tarogato]

Mcgral18, on 25 June 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

ftfy...

[C E Dwyer]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

Well, at least there's one thing Phoenix Hawk has going for it against the Blackjack.

Its designation is not "BJ"

But I .. no wait I'd better not say that ..

[ArmandTulsen]

Used to run 2xZeus, 2xBJ almost exclusively.... Now after the volumening, it's heavies and a Griffin.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 26 June 2016 - 02:23 AM.