52 replies to this topic

[Baulven]

If the ERPPC was 1:1 heat to damage ratio or significantly faster it would be a much better weapon. That being said if you can take the tonnage the gauss rifle is always going to be picked over the ERPPC (unless you already have 2). I would love to see a velocity increase on the weapon myself.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

Blergh, if PPCs are buffed, I'd really rather have ERPPCs for IS be projectile speed buffed, and the clan ERPPCs have their damage creep closer to what they should be TT wise. It would make the two different anyways which is nice.

[Hit the Deck]

Baulven, on 26 June 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

If the ERPPC was 1:1 heat to damage ratio or significantly faster it would be a much better weapon.

The Clan ERPPCs have that 1:1 ratio you mentioned (15 damage for 15 heat). They were so good in previous games (MechCommanders included) that I always put them on my mechs.

[Funkin Disher]

Could give PPCs a charge mechanic. For example:
- Fire without charging (ie just click to fire) = 1000 m/s bolt (slightly slower than now, close to AC/10 speeds)
- Charge before firing (up to 1 second) = +100 m/s for every 0.1 second charged (so max 2000 m/s, about equal to current +50% quirk buffs and gauss speed)
- Charge wasted after holding for 1-2 seconds past full charge

Since PPCs were supposed to be midrange type weapons they can be snapfired like ACs, but also intended as sniper weapons in their ER form they carry a charge feature to put them on par with the gauss. The charge time is slightly longer because you have the choice of firing before fully charged unlike the gauss. Allows depth and increases the skill ceiling without also moving the skill floor.

[Dingo Battler]

Do a different charge up mechanic, and increase the damage to 15. Click once to charge the weapon up and build 1/2 of its heat. The weapon is now "charged" for the next 10 seconds. While charged, you can fire it by clicking again, this time at full heat.

This way, all PPC shots have to be deliberate, and require a while for heat to dissipate before you fire again. If you want to instant fire (double click), you have to suffer 50% increased heat.

[MrVei]

speed needs to be around 1600 for ppc and 1800 for er ppc plus a 15% bump in rang. cool down times need to be longer, 4.5-5 for ppc and 5.5-6 for er. that way the heat build up is less of a problem. plus er sound have a small aoe and give all pcc back the emp kick.

[Sagamore]

Hit the Deck, on 26 June 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

To be fair, you could make a quad PPC build on that WHR-6R. Would be hot and no fighting chance whatsoever at close range but I'd have to try if it's any better.

I was levelling such a mech during x2 XP weekend and it was was actually a lot of fun. I could fire all 4 for 98% heat which is potentially a headshot kill but typically shooting 2 and 2 was fine. Still not sure if it's better than large pulses though even with the velocity quirk but it sure was different.

Edited by Sagamore, 28 June 2016 - 09:33 PM.

[Baulven]

Hit the Deck, on 26 June 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

The Clan ERPPCs have that 1:1 ratio you mentioned (15 damage for 15 heat). They were so good in previous games (MechCommanders included) that I always put them on my mechs.

That is only if you count splash to adjacent locations. I am talking the 15 damage that SHOULD land on the component you hit, not the 10 plus up to 5 (it does less if it can't spread to more than one component like hitting an arm) damage that it currently is.

As a side note I don't care if it drops to 10 heat and is simply 10 damage per shot. I would still prefer that over what we have now.

Edited by Baulven, 28 June 2016 - 11:11 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Baulven, on 28 June 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:

That is only if you count splash to adjacent locations. I am talking the 15 damage that SHOULD land on the component you hit, not the 10 plus up to 5 (it does less if it can't spread to more than one component like hitting an arm) damage that it currently is.

As a side note I don't care if it drops to 10 heat and is simply 10 damage per shot. I would still prefer that over what we have now.

I mean if the damage doesn't splash out but that's probably what you're trying to say.

[H I A S]

Bring the PPC's back!
PPC vilocity 1500-1600
ERPPC vilocity 1800-1900

Wrathful Scythe, on 26 June 2016 - 03:42 AM, said:

I would like to see a test on the PTS were the ERPPC would be a hitscan weapon. The normal PPC gets a higher velocity while the ERPPC becomes hitscan. It would make the ERPPC a valuable choice because you pay the price of more heat for precise damage.

pls dont take the skill out of PPC's.
i dont wanna see another hitscan bs.

Edited by arivio, 28 June 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

I think all of the PPCs should get a 50% base speed velocity increase (and the velocity quirks should be removed).

PPCs shouldn't have to be quirked to be even remotely usable.

No weapon should have a velocity quirk.. PERIOD!!! It makes them to hard to balance, but more importantly, it makes learning how to use weapons so much harder if you play different mechs. Even with short ranged, like SRMs, lead time varies far to much. Long range it can mean hitting, or missing by 5-10m.

The only weapon quirks that should be in the game IMO, are range, heat, cooldown.. IMO Even jam chance should not exist for the simple fact weapons need to be balanced on their merits.. (though i am not against a Jam Chance Weapon/mech module, that ANYONE can use)


But yea, i wouldn't mind seeing a slight speed buff from them, and get rid of that darn velocity buff on a couple mechs, that really in the end screws me up far more than it helps.. Only people that like it are the ones that just play a few mechs, and use said weapon. When people say, the only time a weapon is worth using is with X quirk.. that means that quirk should have to go...

[Sader325]

A strange build that works far better than I expected. Can easily pull 600-800 damage games with this build.

The purpose of that build is to mimic this build, but do it better:

So, to answer your question: You can, sort of.

[C E Dwyer]

If people remember PPC and ERPPC were nerfed top hell because the meta of guass PPC became over barring

probably the justification to quirk some mechs and not buff the weapon

Though I'd love to see a bigger PPC boost to the K2 and Black widow at the expense of ballistic quirks the tears would be endless..

Edited by Cathy, 29 June 2016 - 12:06 AM.

[Ordate]

Cathy, on 29 June 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

If people remember PPC and ERPPC were nerfed top hell because the meta of guass PPC became over barring

probably the justification to quirk some mechs and not buff the weapon

Though I'd love to see a bigger PPC boost to the K2 and Black widow at the expense of ballistic quirks the tears would be endless..

I've been amused reading this thread for that very reason. Some of the arguments that were used to say they were overpowered are now used to say they are inferior. Ala, pinpoint damage/hit or miss. Mixed with the gauss and old jjs, you couldn't go 10 feet without seeing a phract or highlander flying into the air unleashing a volley of ppc+gauss.
I recently pulled out my k2... And I'm not sure if it has to do with the size change, quirks, or both, but I was wrecking shop in that thing as long as the rl baby would let me. (2ppc, ac10, 2mlas, xl300? I think)

[Karl Streiger]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

PPCs shouldn't have to be quirked to be even remotely usable.

No mech or weapon should be quirked to be even remotly useable... quirks is the icing on a cake - not the blasted cake

[cazidin]

Karl Streiger, on 29 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

No mech or weapon should be quirked to be even remotly useable... quirks is the icing on a cake - not the blasted cake

What if Russ quirks pie? Apple Pie OP with +15% flavor and -12.5% baking time!

[DivineEvil]

Problems with PPCs has no relevance to velocity. All of it comes from base heat management values, which undermines the continuous usage of both. There's too much heat capacity, which Lasers can abuse for high-alpha, but which is useless for heat-scaled PPCs, while heat dissipation is too low, making cool-off times unbearably long for the match duration, and crippling their use in direct confrontation.

Heat management values must be reevaluated either to produce static heat capacity with heatsinks giving strong dissipation without affecting capacity, or there should be no base heat capacity whatsoever with heatsinks increasing both values. Either way, it will allow effective usage of PPCs in moderated amount and also will negate the large part of laser-vomit behavior currently dominating the game environment.

Edited by DivineEvil, 29 June 2016 - 07:21 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Am I missing something here?

Don't PPCs spread their damage, while Gauss don't? Last I recall that's a significant difference or did I miss something in an update?

[Kalthios]

The biggest issue with PPCs and all ballistics are the convergence errors while shooting at a moving target. The convergence distance is constantly shifting from the background to the target, if the distance between the two is large your shots miss, even if your aim is true.

This is why lasers have always been superior to projectiles and torso mounted weapons are superior to arm mounted weapons.

The fix for this issue is a more robust convergence system that the player can control. (reticle convergence, targeting convergence, manual range convergence)

[Narcissistic Martyr]

cazidin, on 26 June 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

When EVERY PPC needs 30-50% velocity quirk to be considered "better than the LPL so OK i'll take it." then yes, VELOCITY IS WHAT NEEDS WORK!

LPL is still better because PPCs are hotter and tend to get stuck on every damn thing.