96 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Mcgral18, on 28 June 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

I'll get some more done Friday

I picked a bad time to start doing these

I appreciate you doing this for us, thanks.

[C E Dwyer]

Mcgral18, on 26 June 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

I don't think enough people appreciate the Hexa cannon LOLcust


Four high mounted Meta Cannons, and all six roughly cockpit or higher

six guns one round of ammo, still it will help with barrel wear

[C E Dwyer]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

I'm more curious that anything. If it turns out the BK is a bit too big, well, that's disappointing but it doesn't really matter. Volumetric scaling - purely volumetric scaling to a constant average density - was the way to go and would have fully ended debate on whether mechs where scaled correctly going forward. If mechs are not always scaled (mathematically) correctly then we're always going to have stupid "that mech is way too big" arguments.

But while I'm suspicious, the more I look at the BK vs the Thud, the more I think it may not be wrong. Its hard to tell, though, as shown. Obviously, the BK is taller, but things are more complicated than that.

Ultimately, though, it's academic now. PGI isn't going to rescale again, I'm pretty sure everyone knows that. We have what we have now, for good or ill. And really, if they did "fudge" some mechs? We're no worse off than we were before, just different.

Some mech benefited from the height increase, not many and not by much, because the weapons in relationship to the cockpit got higher.

How ever many were stuffed.

Had I know they were going to force feed the Grasshopper Mcdonalds for three months running, I'd have said don't bother I like the cataplut the size it is

[Trauglodyte]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

I'm more curious that anything. If it turns out the BK is a bit too big, well, that's disappointing but it doesn't really matter. Volumetric scaling - purely volumetric scaling to a constant average density - was the way to go and would have fully ended debate on whether mechs where scaled correctly going forward. If mechs are not always scaled (mathematically) correctly then we're always going to have stupid "that mech is way too big" arguments.

But while I'm suspicious, the more I look at the BK vs the Thud, the more I think it may not be wrong. Its hard to tell, though, as shown. Obviously, the BK is taller, but things are more complicated than that.

Ultimately, though, it's academic now. PGI isn't going to rescale again, I'm pretty sure everyone knows that. We have what we have now, for good or ill. And really, if they did "fudge" some mechs? We're no worse off than we were before, just different.

The really hard part is distinguishing the various features. When you look at the overlays, even by themselves, it is hard to tell what part is what because everything is in a solid block. But, you can't do an overlay comparison with detail because then you can't see anything. It is really a bad catch 22 that can't be fixed. McGral is doing a Hell of a job, though. Keep it up, buddy.

Overall, I'm happy with what they did. Like Cathy wrote, the mechs that got taller might be easier to hit but, by the side effect of being made taller, they're now more capable of firing over terrain. So, less issues with knuckle dragging and such.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 28 June 2016 - 05:23 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Procurator Derek, on 26 June 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Highlander IIC Pre Patch model vs New Model.

For you Mr Procurator, the only one tonight



Raised the mechs to centre torso a bit better. Is that preferable?

[Hit the Deck]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

...
Raised the mechs to centre torso a bit better. Is that preferable?

That's certainly an interesting way to do the comparison. But I guess people are more interested in the height difference.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 29 June 2016 - 09:03 PM.

[InspectorG]

Jenner vs Cicada. Wonder if the Cicadas will gain 'size parity' against the 35 tonners in actual play???

[Wintersdark]

Hit the Deck, on 29 June 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

That's certainly an interesting way to do the comparison. But I guess people are more interested in the height difference.

I don't know why. Height is far, far less significant than width, or even length.

But people see a height difference and freak out, because they're lacking in brain cells.

I'm glad to see them more centered, so you can get a better view of how the whole size increased, not just how much taller it is. And even for the "taller" issue, you can better see where that height comes from - a longer torso? Longer legs?

[Wintersdark]

Cathy, on 28 June 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Some mech benefited from the height increase, not many and not by much, because the weapons in relationship to the cockpit got higher.

How ever many were stuffed.

Had I know they were going to force feed the Grasshopper Mcdonalds for three months running, I'd have said don't bother I like the cataplut the size it is

I can't think of a single.time, EVER, that I missed a Grasshopper because I accidentally shot over its head. Not once. Being a taller is worse, yes, but it's not a huge difference.

[Hit the Deck]

Wintersdark, on 30 June 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

I don't know why. Height is far, far less significant than width, or even length.

But people see a height difference and freak out, because they're lacking in brain cells.
...

Perhaps humans (and maybe other animals) are evolved to perceive height as one major trait. We ourselves have evolved to walk on two legs which makes us taller than a lot of other animals and we are certainly proud of that fact!

Somewhat related, why the adjective for tall (people) in German is groß (big)?

[Mcgral18]

Mr Gargles remains unchanged (not that they said it would)

[DrxAbstract]

ScarecrowES, on 27 June 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

*shrug* Normalization means there will be winners and losers.

Normalization by definition is to create an average baseline used to reduce/eliminate the discrepancies responsible for inherent strength or weakness. It's also a developer nightmare if they're trying to maintain unique features... Same but different, so to speak.

Quote

Luckily, there aren't many real losers here. Most mechs that went up did so by so little that the effect will be negligible.

Most Mechs went up, half of them by a large margin... This is hardly negligible. Ideally, the goal was to standardize chassis sizes without turning half the Mechs into walking barns - Every Mech should be at least 10% smaller than they are now except the Locust, Nova and Catapult (The 3 most obvious exceptions to the re-scaling standards).

Quote

As much as people lament the Jenner's new size, even this topic shows it really didn't go up by much. And it's certainly no bigger than the Raven has always been.

This misses the point entirely. The Jenner may be the same overall size now, however the Jenner's CT alone is roughly the same size/surface area of the Raven's combined RT+LT+CT sections in tandem with having no defensive quirks and shoddy offensive ones... That's the complaint. It's a valid one. It's been going on far too long, like many other easily addressed yet persistent problems.

Was the normalization re-scale a necessity? No, though a re-scale for specific Mechs was definitely called for. Is it nice they got it done and over with? Sure, but in true PGI fashion they didn't quite get it right and now we're going to witness them trip over their own feet in the coming days/weeks/months/years as the band-aids get layered on ankle deep until they once again resemble a guy in a full-body cast sipping orange juice through a straw in the recovery room of Loldeving General Hospital.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 26 June 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yeah....I won't be driving my Wolfhounds for quite some time.

Despite the catapult having twice the volume, at least...

There's more to mech size than height

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 02 July 2016 - 02:03 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

meteorol, on 26 June 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

That volume though

Is this the part where I say "I told you so"?

[Kaeb Odellas]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 02 July 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

Despite the catapult having twice the volume, at least...

There's more to mech size than height

Lights rely on their small size and speed to make them hard to hit, as they don't have the armor and structure to survive otherwise. They weren't particularly survivable before the rescale, and now that they're bigger, they're even less survivable. If PGI had counterbalanced their size increase with a bit of armor, structure, or speed quirks, no one would be complaining. But they didn't. They nerfed an already underutilized class.

[ScarecrowES]

Kaeb Odellas, on 02 July 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

Lights rely on their small size and speed to make them hard to hit, as they don't have the armor and structure to survive otherwise. They weren't particularly survivable before the rescale, and now that they're bigger, they're even less survivable. If PGI had counterbalanced their size increase with a bit of armor, structure, or speed quirks, no one would be complaining. But they didn't. They nerfed an already underutilized class.

Lights are peaking at roughly 30% in the queues post-patch... and I've personally not seen them less than 15% during the times I play. I don't think "underutilized" has been the case since the rescale.

We wouldn't expect the rescale to come with an immediate universal quirk pass. We should expect that these things would need to exist out in the wild for awhile to see how they're actually performing before we start throwing quirks around out of sheer perception.

[Mcgral18]

ScarecrowES, on 02 July 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Lights are peaking at roughly 30% in the queues post-patch... and I've personally not seen them less than 15% during the times I play. I don't think "underutilized" has been the case since the rescale.

We wouldn't expect the rescale to come with an immediate universal quirk pass. We should expect that these things would need to exist out in the wild for awhile to see how they're actually performing before we start throwing quirks around out of sheer perception.

Queue isn't entirely accurate either, because that's the waiting players, not players in games.

Games, which tend to have 1-2 Lights, 2-3 Meds, 3-4 Heavies and 3-4 Assaults


Many Screenshots are the most accurate representation we can hope for, IMO