93 replies to this topic

[Sader325]

If I see polar highlands and I'm in an Ebon Jaguar, I should be able to switch to a hellbringer, or any other 65 ton mech I own if I feel like it.

The idea mech pilots are dropped blind with no info on whether their loadout is good for a mission or not is pretty asinine honestly. Soldiers don't get randomly dropped into desert missions with winter camo, they always have a general idea of where they are going and what they will encounter when they get there.

Likewise, as a soldier I'll probably know whether I was going to be dropped into Mordor or Polar Highlands and would fit my mech appropriately.

Does that mean people will be able to bring more optimized builds for each map? Yes, which in turn means people will play better and matches will be more difficult. Personally I find more challenge to be a good thing.

Anyway, this change will never happen obviously, but I still wish it would.

[Darth Hotz]

The challenge is to adept to the map.

[Sader325]

Darth Hotz, on 26 June 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

The challenge is to adept to the map.

Seems like artificial challenge to me.

[Tyler Valentine]

Yeah, gotta agree with Sader's logic on this one, it makes no sense in real life. In the scope of the game, however, I think it's more fun the way it is.

[Kubernetes]

Yes, I've been calling for this for a while. However, I do think you should be allowed to choose within the class--it gives you more options and still maintains the integrity of the MM. And it's lame to say one should adapt--it just doesn't make sense to make you choose a loadout before you know where you're fighting. FW is often way more fulfilling in terms of gameplay because you don't randomly get hosed by map selection.

I'll say it again-- there would be no overall meta if you could choose mechs after map selection. You see the cookie-cutter loadouts because it's risky to go with builds that are useless on many maps. Crimson? Oh, too bad you brought an LRM boat. Canyon? Jumpjets would have been nice. Polar? Good luck and die in place, brawler.

[CK16]

How about this is only for OmniMechs and is driven be saved load outs? Thus making OmniMechs the flexibility they should have over battlemechs.

Switching though to an entirely different mech? No, same mech, just different loadouts

Edited by CK16, 26 June 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[cazidin]

Why not a drop deck of 3 or 4 mechs that you can select from after the map is chosen? A bit like FW. You get to choose which mech you drop in BEFORE the match starts.

[Piney II]

No.

It would just reinforce alpha boats.........and that's basically out of control now.

Selected a hot running laser boat and find yourself on Therma? No problem.............just re-select a cool running dakka boat.

I try to build mechs that can survive the hot maps. I love it when I see an enemy toaster alpha shooting laser boat shutting down every alpha on a hot map.

Allowing mech re-selection after the map is chosen is a bad idea.

[Darth Hotz]

CK16, on 26 June 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

How about this is only for OmniMechs and is driven be saved load outs? Thus making OmniMechs the flexibility they should have over battlemechs.

Switching though to an entirely different mech? No, same mech, just different loadouts

Why not an autowin button for Omnimechs only?

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

If I see polar highlands and I'm in an Ebon Jaguar, I should be able to switch to a hellbringer, or any other 65 ton mech I own if I feel like it.

That's probably a good part of the reason some people hate polar highlands and alpine peaks.

They get stuck on maps with large open spaces in their brawler build.

[Sader325]

Piney, on 26 June 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

No.

It would just reinforce alpha boats.........and that's basically out of control now.

Selected a hot running laser boat and find yourself on Therma? No problem.............just re-select a cool running dakka boat.

I try to build mechs that can survive the hot maps. I love it when I see an enemy toaster alpha shooting laser boat shutting down every alpha on a hot map.

Allowing mech re-selection after the map is chosen is a bad idea.

So you're afraid of fighting people playing good mechs?

Sorry,I don't agree with this because theres plenty of times you come across people who gambled and got the perfect map for their mech. It shouldn't be chance based at all. Part of the skill of this game is knowing what to bring, and when to bring it. This is a PvP game, part of the PvP is having the right mech for the job every time.

Afraid that someones going to outshine you because they have a good mech for the map? Well guess what you should also have the right mech for the map too. If you're both fit perfectly for the map, then now you have to outplay someone playing at their best.

Playing people at their best and most optimal and winning is the most fulfilling way to play. Beating someone just because you had the luck of the draw is a boring shallow victory.

What I'm asking for is more difficulty, not less. I want my opponents to be able to bring their a-game every time and I think its an important skill to be able to deal with optimal mechs for the map.

Or else everyone brings generic laservomit that's quirked hard enough to win on every map, including hot ones.

Edited by Sader325, 26 June 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

If you're going to use realism as an argument, then it needs to be realistic within the framework of Battletech lore. And this wouldn't be.

And as a byproduct, this would kill diversity and make the game less enjoyable anyway.

[Kubernetes]

Piney, on 26 June 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

No.

It would just reinforce alpha boats.........and that's basically out of control now.

No, it would do the opposite. People choose big laser vomit because they're reliable jack-of-all-trades builds.

Quote

Selected a hot running laser boat and find yourself on Therma? No problem.............just re-select a cool running dakka boat.

You just contradicted yourself. Hot maps will push people away from big alphas to cooler dps builds. And what's wrong with that?

Quote

I try to build mechs that can survive the hot maps. I love it when I see an enemy toaster alpha shooting laser boat shutting down every alpha on a hot map.

So fun requires that your enemy be gimped by unfortunate map selection? How good are you fighting against people on equal terms?

Again, all this stuff about the meta and lack of build-diversity--it's directly tied to the inability to choose mechs. Laser vomit works on most maps. Even on hot maps you can do okay with lasers if you watch your heat. No amount of heat management can make SRMs reach out to long range. I have a couple Atlases in my garage. I've driven them twice this year. Why? Because the two times I pulled out my Atlas-S I got Polar and then Alpine. Why would I want to drive a mech that's a total roll of the die? I don't.

[Sader325]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

If you're going to use realism as an argument, then it needs to be realistic within the framework of Battletech lore. And this wouldn't be.

And as a byproduct, this would kill diversity and make the game less enjoyable anyway.

Kill diversity? I bet my mechs are far more diverse than yours, and I use the vast majority of them regularly. Knowing the map would allow me to use them even more effectively since I've got a build for almost every situation in CW. Hell I've got 9 different Ebon Jaguar builds alone. When it comes to build diversity, I am king.

[Alistair Winter]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Kill diversity? I bet my mechs are far more diverse than yours, and I use the vast majority of them regularly. Knowing the map would allow me to use them even more effectively since I've got a build for almost every situation in CW. Hell I've got 9 different Ebon Jaguar builds alone. When it comes to build diversity, I am king.

I have no doubt. But sadly, not everyone is like you

[Scout Derek]

Just add one thing to this;

If you change your mech, the enemy will see what you're bringing. There, done.

[Sader325]

Procurator Derek, on 26 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Just add one thing to this;

If you change your mech, the enemy will see what you're bringing. There, done.

I'm ok with this.

[Kubernetes]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

If you're going to use realism as an argument, then it needs to be realistic within the framework of Battletech lore. And this wouldn't be.

So it's realistic for a commander to drop his company on a planet with no consideration at all for terrain or temp? I dunno, is BT filled with instances of units dropping onto wide open steppes in short range brawlers? "Sorry, dropdeck was locked before we chose the dz."

Quote

And as a byproduct, this would kill diversity and make the game less enjoyable anyway.

There might be less diversity of builds per map, but overall you'd see a lot more diverse builds and playstyles.

[Belacose]

If only the Japanese carriers at the battle of Midway could have instantly swapped out their planes' bombs for torpedoes.

[Alistair Winter]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

So it's realistic for a commander to drop his company on a planet with no consideration at all for terrain or temp? I dunno, is BT filled with instances of units dropping onto wide open steppes in short range brawlers? "Sorry, dropdeck was locked before we chose the dz."

I haven't read a lot of Battletech novels because when you really get into Battletech, it seems to be cheesy garbage with less depth than Power Rangers (inb4 the nerd rage). However, from what I understand, mechs are super, super valuable and rare. Almost like Warhammer 40,000, where a suit of power armour is used for thousands of years. In Battletech, you've got assault mechs that were built centuries ago, and they still play an important part in wars. Most mechs are stock built, but a few people have the resources to modify them. Generally, people just make due with what they have, because mechs are super powerful and stuff.

Much like Warhammer 40,000, Battletech lore leans heavily on the "rule of cool". So some things don't make sense, but they sound cool. However, if you try to apply real world pragmaticism and realism to those universes, they kind of fall apart. For example, why the hell would anyone build mechs (or Titans) to begin with?

So you just sort of have to look at what the lore says and then stick to that framework. "Ok, Space Marines sometimes drop their massive automatic rapid firing rocket launchers (stormbolters) in favour of... electric hammers. Fair enough."

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

There might be less diversity of builds per map, but overall you'd see a lot more diverse builds and playstyles.

I don't think so. Because whenever you drop on a map now, the choice of tactics comes down to what weapons people have. Both in the solo queue and group queue, teams will naturally gravitate towards tactics that favour their builds. So if there's a bunch of brawlers dropping on Polar Highlands, they will brawl. If there's a bunch of snipers dropping on Polar Highlands, they'll snipe. But if everyone is free to choose, you'll probably see LL Stalkers on Polar Highlands every time.