93 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

This issue illustrates to me something that PGI has done pretty well. On the one hand you have the folks wanting to know the map before they decide the mech for the sake of "realism", for bringing the right tool for the job so to speak. On the other hand you have folks who like the need to "bring a well rounded mech" as you not having ideal conditions in which to play it is just an additional challenge which makes the game play better. The solution that PGI gives us is map voting which at least occasionally will allow you to get the map you want, and thus meet the "needs" of the first group as well as the challenge factor of the second group.

I for one am in the first group (I have 128 mechs, I like that many are map and mode specific. I should not feel obligated to take the 20 or so that are "well rounded"), but I have to give PGI credit here. One may hate the voting scheme we now play under, but it does give both sides of this issue what they want, at least occasionally.

[Fut]

2fast2stompy, on 26 June 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

This would just mean you always fight brawlers on brawling maps, always fight snipers on alpine, dakka on hot maps, etc. Maybe that would make the game more fun for some people, but I don't see it as a good thing.

This is how I see this entire discussion, right down to the point that some people might enjoy this, but I personally don't think it'd make the game any better.

[Novakaine]

[Yellonet]

Once we have better weapon balance I will agree.

[Mystere]

Aetes Nakatomi, on 28 June 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Personally I like the idea of choosing the chassis then after the map and mode is selected you can choose the variant you want to use. That way it encourages investment in purchasing and keeping Mechs rather than only using variants to unlock the elite skills.

NoiseCrypt, on 28 June 2016 - 01:24 AM, said:

Give each mech loadout A(default) and B. After map/mode voting you get to select which loadout (A or B ) you want to use for that drop.

I can probably live with either these, while holding my nose at the same time.

Edited by Mystere, 28 June 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[Roadkill]

Better suggestion:

Omnimechs should be able to switch to an alternate (pre-built and in your Mechbay) configurationfrom the drop screen. But only Omnimechs.

That would mimic the TT flexibility of Omnimechs much better than the current system.

[Mystere]

Roadkill, on 28 June 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Better suggestion:

Omnimechs should be able to switch to an alternate (pre-built and in your Mechbay) configurationfrom the drop screen. But only Omnimechs.

That would mimic the TT flexibility of Omnimechs much better than the current system.

Although I like that very much as it brings more lore to the game, it just might start another IS vs. Clan threadnought.

[Roadkill]

Mystere, on 28 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

Although I like that very much as it brings more lore to the game, it just might start another IS vs. Clan threadnought.

So wait until 3058 to introduce it.

[SteelBruiser]

So, how much time will one get to decide which mech to pull for the new conditions. I mean, we already have trouble getting folks to click "Ready" in the 80 seconds allotted...and that's all they have to do.

Also, one of the criteria the matchmaker uses to put teams together is weight class. If your first choice was a 100 tonner then you should only be allowed to pick another 100 tonner to replace it.

Personally I think the only change option you should get after the map choice is decided, is your camo.

Edited by SteelBruiser, 28 June 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Lykaon]

Reasons it's potentially a bad idea.

Omnimechs have a clear advantage. Since any base omnichassis can be fitted to suit any situation.Battlemechs are far less adaptable.

Maps that currently offer advantages to a particlar style of combat will always see mechs outfitted for that style and this will lead to even more stale and predictable game play on those maps. For example most players feel Alpine is a not for brawlers so if Alpine comes up they switch to a sniper mech. With both team composed of sniper builds the match will almost always be stand on a hill 700m away and poke. ALWAYS.

Some maps are by their nature very unforgiving to certain weapon systems while other are exceptional for using certain weapons. In a way this is also a way of forcing adaptation on players. If a map is fairly open and large and you are using a pile of small pulse lasers it looks like you are going to have to come up with some tactic for getting the range you need.

Also when you can choose what mech to bring to what map you can stack the deck so to speak in your favor by elliminating the strengths of certain weapons on certain maps. "oh look it's Polar looks like it's ECM/AMS mechs for me 'cause LRMs can be strong here" .

We can already vote on mode and map and since we have a clearly obvious culture in MWO that leans heavily towards Skirmish + smaller or cooler map we can already anticipate the needs for most maps we will likely get.

And if you haven't noticed it goes like this most of the time.

Skirmish if skirmish is a choice if no skirmish it's domination (unless the map is Alpine domination on alpine is terrible)

If one of the following maps is available it will be that map. HPG,Canyon,Mining collective,Frozen city. (luckily the same old mid range brawler build works on all of these maps so build for no min range and an average range of 500m)

[C E Dwyer]

I Zeratul I, on 26 June 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

That's probably a good part of the reason some people hate polar highlands and alpine peaks.

They get stuck on maps with large open spaces in their brawler build.

I got my first five kill game on Alpine with a brawler hunchback, AC20 plus ML's this was before quirks, as mentioned people just want things handed to them on a plate, people need to grow up and adapt

[Piney II]

The uncertainty of the map selection adds a lot of flavor to the game.

You have to play the mech you selected, even if you bring an alpha shooting laser toaster to a hot map.

Improvise, adapt, overcome.......

[Kuaron]

I think it was some WoT youtube streamer who spoke of the idea to have the option exclude 1–2 maps for every one of your tanks (individually).
When I started MWO and saw the match maker with the map voting for the first time, I thought it would be the superior match making mechanism WoT was missing and people (almost) wouldn’t have to play “Karelia Assault on T95”, speaking in WoT terms. And the minutes long waiting time would be an adequate price for this advantage.

But now I’d go back to the first idea which would pbbly be superior to both the MM mechanics, the completely random WoT one as well as the “stop voting my brawler on Polar, idiots!” MWO one.
Just allow for every Mech to exclude a few maps and make the rest random, save the waiting and voting time!

[MauttyKoray]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

If I see polar highlands and I'm in an Ebon Jaguar, I should be able to switch to a hellbringer, or any other 65 ton mech I own if I feel like it.

The idea mech pilots are dropped blind with no info on whether their loadout is good for a mission or not is pretty asinine honestly. Soldiers don't get randomly dropped into desert missions with winter camo, they always have a general idea of where they are going and what they will encounter when they get there.

Likewise, as a soldier I'll probably know whether I was going to be dropped into Mordor or Polar Highlands and would fit my mech appropriately.

Does that mean people will be able to bring more optimized builds for each map? Yes, which in turn means people will play better and matches will be more difficult. Personally I find more challenge to be a good thing.

Anyway, this change will never happen obviously, but I still wish it would.

I don't know about a mech of the same tonnage, but maybe a variant of the same mech? It would make the most sense balance wise, that way you don't have people all jumping into the same mechs that are completely advantageous on that map (i.e. not everyone can switch to a jump capable mech on Canyon) but you'll be able to switch to something with long range weaponry for polar, or mid-short for things like crimson and mining.

Unfortunately I think the limitation to this has to do with the game loading the mechs and map together which is why pre-selection is used. There's also the question of how they would do it if it was implemented in something like a map/select screen where it pops up between that and the game loading. UI creation, code, etc.

I'd like to hope its possible, but I don't think putting something else on the backburner to push this ahead would be a wise choice.