23 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

the game is better scaled now than before.
but it still needs a little bit of work!

you have got to keep tweaking based on the front profile. however this has been big step in the right direction to balance the mechs

[Colin Thrase]

Just wanted to say that based on what I've seen so far, I think the re-scale is great. No complaints here.

[ImperialKnight]

i have no issues. especially on the BL-KNTs I'm currently leveling. If anything, the bigger size has made it easier to roll damage

[SilentFenris]

So far tried out the Panther, Spider, Firestarter and Kitfox and no complaints.

Will give the mediums a shot tomorrow.

[Zolaz]

Sure seems like the Blackjack got a lot bigger compared to other mechs, especially the new Phoenix Hawk.

[TitanTwitch]

I got no complaints on the re scale either, I like my Jenner just fine, and the rest of the mechs look good to me.

[afaik]

The Jenner IIC changes, plus the size increase on the couple of already-fringe clan assaults are poor IMO. Mainly the jenner though, which was only just viable before and really doesn't feel like it is now. I've had invasion games with the jenner as my last drop, and I've cut through with 7+ kills easily (due to previous damage etc. on the enemy of course), but now it just doesn't seem able to hide or evade as well. Given that it definitely wasn't overpowered previously (it died 1v1 to most opposition), this means it has become under-powered and nonviable, at least for my usual builds (mainly alpha srms). This is the main change that doesn't make sense to me. Jenner IIC's are supposed to be small, fast, light and evasive (at least to rival the oxides, which have far more resilience), so this is more of an imbalance than balance.

p.s. much of the rest of the changes I've seen have been good, I just thought I'd outline the main 'miss' I've experienced.

Edited by afaik, 21 June 2016 - 11:48 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

I'm not so sure about the jenner changes, seem a bit too wide now, but I haven't really noticed anything else yet I don't like. Maybe I just need two weeks to adjust.

[Lily from animove]

afaik, on 21 June 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

The Jenner IIC changes, plus the size increase on the couple of already-fringe clan assaults are poor IMO. Mainly the jenner though, which was only just viable before and really doesn't feel like it is now. I've had invasion games with the jenner as my last drop, and I've cut through with 7+ kills easily (due to previous damage etc. on the enemy of course), but now it just doesn't seem able to hide or evade as well. Given that it definitely wasn't overpowered previously (it died 1v1 to most opposition), this means it has become under-powered and nonviable, at least for my usual builds (mainly alpha srms). This is the main change that doesn't make sense to me. Jenner IIC's are supposed to be small, fast, light and evasive (at least to rival the oxides, which have far more resilience), so this is more of an imbalance than balance.

p.s. much of the rest of the changes I've seen have been good, I just thought I'd outline the main 'miss' I've experienced.

and because it was "only just viable" it was the most sued light of all? That is far more than "only just viable"

and you 7+ kill example doesn'T helps your "only just viable" standpoint either.

[AeusDeif]

I'm encouraged with the scaling overall, but the height of many man-walker types is too great, across the weight classes. If a mech has low slung hardpoints and a big front profile (where most hits come from) it should get some help by being more 'compact.' A lower surface-area-to-weight ratio. That's what made the zeus viable when it was implemented.

When it comes to evaluating the surface area of the mech, not all directions matter equally. I think they should be weighted as so, with higher percentage being shrunk more for weak mechs and increased for OP mechs.

From-the-front profile: 50% (height 30%, width 20%)
From-the-side profile: 30% (more if st are very exposed compared to coverage by shield arms)
From-above profile: 10% (arty and lrms hit this way, so what)
Gaps: 10% (how large are holes where shots may pass through)

the height one varies if the mech has great high mounted hardpoints.

Edited by AeusDeif, 22 June 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

awesome hasn't improved radically or anything. it now has more survivable sidetorsos but the mech is still the same width and only a bit shorter. center torso still has it's own zipcode will the awesome be viable now? i think the answer is still: only if you really adapt your playstyle to it's characteristics. (i swear there is awesome specific types of torso twist and backshot maneuvers)
maybe a further 2-3% squish from side to side on shoulders and chest would be a good call. so it looks like a warhammer that grew in all directions. even if you have to make the aws taller to make up for it.
i'd take that compromise.

i also think the spider should be a little bit smaller due to the lack of hardpoints.

the locust seems fine, but time will tell if it is too small.

trebuchet hasn't been updated when it clearly shoulda been smaller.

executioner seems to have grown too much from the pictures, i actually haven't seen one being played yet, maybe because it is taller than a kodiak with less weight

highlander and hgn iic should be restored back to its before rescale size. due to the bad speed, bad shape and bad jumpjets.

this was also a good time to fix the dynamic geometry on victor


on top of that, victor, hgn, vindicator, wolverine should have small quirk buffs they would be appreciated. even leg structure quirks


more than overall profile or volume or even placement of hardpoints i think we should be looking at number of hardpoints. the victor has 6 weapon hardpoints and 1 ams.
awesome and zeus have 7 each and they are better than victor.
it used to be the case victor made up for it with jumpjets but jumpjets aren't that useful really. and maybe they shouldn't be. but the fact is it has 6. it deserves to be shorter than it is. it is a tall mech.
the spider is a mech that has a few hardpoints. and locust can have several and boat small lasers.
spider < locust. even with the crazy jumpjets. it limits the choice on a spider to 1 ppc or 1 LL. or 1 LPL something like that. if it can't have the option to be good up close vs a mech of its own weight class and on top of that is double the size of a light that can boat six smalls..., then maybe it should be shrunk 4-5%

executioner and gargoyle should have hands raised a bit more to the height of the kodiak's bent arms (but not quite)


also, mechs like summoner should be smaller or get some quirk. i have not yet tried the dragon but this might also be the case even though it shrunk. because dragon and summoner have fewer hardpoints than mechs of a roughly equivalent size

and these fewer hardpoint mechs should have a lighter movement archetype so they climb better.


the marauder is still unkillable, and i suspect the same is still true with the crab, because the shape of the enveloping sidetorso with standard engine allow you to soak a lot of the damage that would go to ct.

for crab and marauder i think it would be advisable to shrink the sidetorsos similarly to what you did with awesome, so ct is more exposed. or just move the hitbox around without touching the model

cicada and jenner shaped mechs should get structure quirks.

i think as a first pass of the rescale they have done a swell job. but there should be a final pass

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 June 2016 - 02:49 AM.

[Saskia]

My Atlas is too tall. There are now less places I can hide from LRMs. Headshots will be much easier on me now. Fighting lights used to be fun, now I am at even more of a disadvantage as I don't have the required arm movement to get a proper hit on the lowered mechs. I suggest quirks be placed where the Atlas gets more head armour and has a tad better arm movement downward. Not too much.. it should of course not be an easy task to hit a light when brawling. ECM also needs to be more effective since you keep improving LRM-abilities on maps (vast open spaces, no cover etc). I again recommend LRMs be limited to one per mech, but that is for another topic.

[Mazzyplz]

also - make the awesome slim from front-to-back again.
the only way to combat the width of the mech was to get on your side and show your thin profile.

the width is still the same but the side profile is no longer thin.

i am glad that you added more shielding for the shoulders, but making the chest more pronounced wasn't good.

like i said i would prefer to have a taller awesome than a boxy and still wide but short one

idk at what point in the timeline you guys decided the awesome could use being really short and stocky for being 80 tons and while that is good in some places like therma behind the boxes,
it was really unacceptable to make the mech wider front to back.
it's no longer possible to twist away from shots clean like it used to be because the mech used to be slim front-to-back. now it isn't. i would count this as a nerf not a buff. twisting away now is LESS EFFECTIVE. not more effective.

you essentially made it so brainless players can have 1 more second of stare time, but its now harder by a player to be actually good at. dodging the shots

please make the mech taller and the side profile more slim once again. PLEASE

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 June 2016 - 08:13 PM.

[DemonRaziel]

My pair of CB for the 'Mechs I can think of atm:

1. Lolcust is probably a bit too small
2. A Commie could use getting a tad smaller
3. I don't mind resizign a Spider, but you wen't too far, dropping the overall size by some 3-5% would be the way to go. Also, the best movement archetype should be returned to Spidy, his only strength is mobility, since it's the weakes 'Mech of all, hardpoints-wise.
4. Jenny draw the short stick, he's quite huge and got a mobility archerype nerf as well. OP 'Mech variants should be approached on their own, not through a general nerf of the whole class, or chassi.
5. The Big trio (FS, WLF, PNT) is too big now. Resizing them by 3-5% would do the trick.
6 Nova needed a favorable resize, but you've gone a bit to far. A 2-3% increase would make both sides happy.
7. Same as to Nova applies to the Catapult.
8. Adder was supposed to be downsized a bit, not enlarged. Drop his size (compared to the original) by the same amount you have increased it.
9. Grasshopper, Victor, Zeus could do with a height reduction. A minor one (2-3%), mind you.
10. A Hunchback could drop in size a bit instead of a microscopical change in size and so could the Cicada.
11. Shadowhawk didn't need to change size and the Griffing should have followed the size adjustment of the 'Hawk and the Wolwy (i.e. decrease the size of the Griffin, instead of increase).
12. I'm sure there's other 'Mechs that could you a rework, but those don't come to mind at the moment, so feel free to add any input you deem worthy.

[p4r4g0n]

GRASSHOPPER - lower legs now getting caught on edges of platforms, etc. Unless the intention was to force players to add more jump jets at the expense of weapons, some kind of modification to the JJs or a JJ quirk is required OR slightly shorten the legs and add more depth to torso in compensation. Note that in HPG the top of mech head seems to be scraping the bottom of the level on which the Sat Dish is located.

LOCUST - tentatively, I am getting the impression that it needs to lose armour/structure OR weapon quirks in compensation for much smaller size. Right now it reminds me of when lights had displaced hit boxes and could zip in amongst enemy mechs with impunity. Pending further observations.

[QuePan]

i dunno i think the spider is too big . feels more like a light medium then a light mech . if im not mistaken its bigger than the Cheetah which makes no sense

[Dee Eight]

Look at the actual PGI mech scale image when comparing, don't go by how things appear in the mech lab.

[Mazzyplz]

that's exactly what i did.

spider looks 2x as big as locust in the chart.
and spider is really undergunned.

summoner is bigger than orion iic, despite having a lot less weapons

when looking at the chart is also very telling how smaller orion is than any 80 tonners.


every 80 tonner in the game SHOULD SHRINK.

awesome, zeus, victor and gargoyle are way bigger than any 75 tonner -

that's BAD.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 23 June 2016 - 05:41 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

make 80 tonners almost the size of a heavy. not the same as a 90 tonner. it's no wonder 80 ton mechs are SO unpopular.
it seems they were scaled by weight class still and not by any reasonable measure. 75 ton mechs and 80 ton mechs should be closer than what we got here; 80 and 90 tonners looking similar.

you will never fix the awesome, zeus, gargoyle and victor when this comparison can be made.
and out of them all the victor should be pretty much the size of a heavy because of the 6 hardpoint instead of 7.

you should not take legs into account here. it really matters ZILCH that the mauler has fat legs. but i bet you guys used the volume of the leg as well to balance this..

and it's not like the depth of the mech is dissimilar, the top view also looks very much alike.

[justcallme A S H]

Saskia, on 22 June 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

My Atlas is too tall. There are now less places I can hide from LRMs

It's even worse as a Black Knight.
Taller than both an Atlas and Kodiak. I ran one yesterday and can clearly see over them when behind.

It's a joke this whole rescale debacle. Sooo many mechs became instantly unusable. And the Clan Assault increases are even .pre dumb, you'll never see an executioner put there now.