7 replies to this topic

[RjBass3]

One of the biggest things hurting teams trying to participate in this "all inclusive" tournament is the limited team size and lack of being able to substitute players in or out. PGI has stated that they can not add in new players because of the vetting process which initially seemed to take a lot of time. This is understandable. However, what about players who have already been vetted?

The NA side of the tournament has seen a lot of teams bail out. Some of those teams are actually competitive teams that have players who still really want to participate. However due to various reason's, their team had to bail. My own team, the Mercs Of Vega, started with 12 players, but as of last week, is down to only 9, one of whom can barely get in game anymore due to his internet connection.

So what if teams that were short players due to life etc.. were allowed to sub in players from those teams who had to bail completely? For example. The 228 SF had to bail from the tournament last week. They have 3 or 4 players who really want to participate in this thing and are able to, but due to life, were unable to continue as a team. Seeing as how they are fellow 228 players, and have been vetted through the tournament process already, why can't those who want to, be transferred over to my team?

Both Paul and Tina stated to me and a fellow 228 member last week that they designed this tournament to be All Inclusive, and that is fantastic. Yet so many people are being excluded because of this one issue of substitutes. So this idea of mine helps multiple parties. Teams that are short players can refill their ranks, players who really want to participate but were unfortunate enough to be on one of the teams that had to bail can now get back into the game, and PGI staff won't have to work nearly as hard to get those players back on a team since they have already been vetted. The only stipulation to this that I can see right away is that if a player was on a NA team that withdrew from the tournament, then that player should only be allowed to switch to another NA team. Likewise for EU and AP teams.

As of today, some 29 teams from NA have been disqualified or had to exit the tournament. That's a lot, and I am sure that number is going to grow. This idea here might be able to help curb some of that.

[Lukoi Banacek]

While I am all for people getting added to short rosters at this point, I think it opens a pandoras box if previously attached players were allowed to be picked up by teams at this point. I would definitely vote against that.

[RjBass3]

But why? What are your worries?

[McValium]

"my team got disqualified/ mathematically eliminated, lets see what team will take me/gives me a better chance at winning money"
and
" lets see what good player we can pick up to replace one of our weaker ones"

+the whole " we can replace players now? we didnt know that! our team wants back in".

in short you dont change roster rules during a tournament, no matter what comes up, since it would be unfair to the teams that allready dropped out.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Rj, it creates an environment where potentially already strong teams with a gap in their roster pick up ringers from former teams. It further widens the gap between haves and have nots, and overall will hurt the competitive scene.

Don't get me wrong....we're not worried about making the top five or anything like that down here in DIV D. But it is disheartening to play, do your best and then see an already strong team potentially pick up an Ace from a team that's no longer in the mix. What's to stop a team from suddenly "losing a member" because a stronger free agent just showed up from a now-defunct team.

If you signed up with a team for a tournament, you ride that wave. It's the fairest option across the board for everyone. This isn't a sports league like the NFL or the Premier League, where parity or some semblance of it and the issue of fairness are handled with different mechanics. This is a tournament, more akin to the World Cup.

An ace player with dual citizenship doesn't get to leave his team that died in the qualifiers to join another team in a later round there either.

Part of the goal of the WC is to expand the e-sport scene, expand the competitive side of MWO and to expand the game's limited (profit earning) niche as it is. What you are recommending would hurt that imo and hurt it badly.

Look how many teams are giving up already. This would drive other teams away even further and potentially sour any taste they have for our fledgling comp scene.

Part of the reason MRBC is so successful imo, is the deliberate steps they've taken (not perfectly mind ya) to split the talent pools so people can compete with like-tiered opponents and develop over time. The WC already has a seal-clubbing aspect to it. This would only add to that dynamic.

Those are my concerns. It's a well-intentioned idea, I just don't think it's going to work as intended.

edit: Don't get me wrong....this tournament suffered all of the flaws you mentioned in the OP about overly limited rosters, using a full round robin instead of perhaps the swiss system etc. But throwing the baby out with the bath water in an effort to fix this is won't help us generate interest in a 2017 season of this. This one needs to play out, they need to learn from it (hopefully) and we can have an even bigger and better 2017-2018 version potentially.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 29 June 2016 - 06:10 PM.

[RjBass3]

Lukoi Banacek, on 29 June 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

Rj, it creates an environment where potentially already strong teams with a gap in their roster pick up ringers from former teams. It further widens the gap between haves and have nots, and overall will hurt the competitive scene.

Don't get me wrong....we're not worried about making the top five or anything like that down here in DIV D. But it is disheartening to play, do your best and then see an already strong team potentially pick up an Ace from a team that's no longer in the mix. What's to stop a team from suddenly "losing a member" because a stronger free agent just showed up from a now-defunct team.

If you signed up with a team for a tournament, you ride that wave. It's the fairest option across the board for everyone. This isn't a sports league like the NFL or the Premier League, where parity or some semblance of it and the issue of fairness are handled with different mechanics. This is a tournament, more akin to the World Cup.

An ace player with dual citizenship doesn't get to leave his team that died in the qualifiers to join another team in a later round there either.

Part of the goal of the WC is to expand the e-sport scene, expand the competitive side of MWO and to expand the game's limited (profit earning) niche as it is. What you are recommending would hurt that imo and hurt it badly.

Look how many teams are giving up already. This would drive other teams away even further and potentially sour any taste they have for our fledgling comp scene.

Part of the reason MRBC is so successful imo, is the deliberate steps they've taken (not perfectly mind ya) to split the talent pools so people can compete with like-tiered opponents and develop over time. The WC already has a seal-clubbing aspect to it. This would only add to that dynamic.

Those are my concerns. It's a well-intentioned idea, I just don't think it's going to work as intended.

edit: Don't get me wrong....this tournament suffered all of the flaws you mentioned in the OP about overly limited rosters, using a full round robin instead of perhaps the swiss system etc. But throwing the baby out with the bath water in an effort to fix this is won't help us generate interest in a 2017 season of this. This one needs to play out, they need to learn from it (hopefully) and we can have an even bigger and better 2017-2018 version potentially.

Good points and when put that way, I have to agree with you.

It's just that when I look at how many teams, especially the fully competitive ones, that have dropped out, and their reasons why, and then I look at what has happened to my team, it makes me feel like something could be done. I just learned earlier today that one of my players was in a car wreck and won't be able to return to the game for at least two week if not more.

I then look up a bit higher on the 228 TS and see the four guys from the 228 SF who really want to be in this thing, but no longer have a team, and for reasons totally out of their control. It just seems so unfair to so many people who really want to do this but no longer have the option to, and it wasn't even their fault.

But I get what your saying, and now am just going to have to be torn about it.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

12 was too small a number for the stupid way in which pgi structured the tournament on that I agree.

But the roster lock is a necessity, the scale for abuse in allowing players/teams to be picked up once eliminated is just too large.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Rj,

You and I are in the same boat. We had a roster mix up regarding sign ups and our entire second team didnt get established in time. Our 12th didnt react in time on the first team. Our tenth was unavailable for the first 10 matches+ that we played. A guy's college schedule for night classes was an unforseen complication. So we are on the cusp at times as well. And then to see some of the best players in the game getting pushed to the side due to similar complications is kinda damning of the tournament's overall set up as well, so I agree on being torn.

This is just one of those damned if we do or dont moments that we need to push through and hope PGI is paying attention so they can do it better next time. Growing pains are part and parcel of the experience really.