14 replies to this topic

[Product9]

Hey guys,

I don't know if anyone else has been experiencing this, but I seem to be taking a lot of hits in the front, only to have the damage register on the rear of my mech. Is this commonplace or am I just imagining it?

If that is indeed what is happening, I wonder if this game is using continuous collision detection. What that basically means is that the collision detection is done by "looking ahead" at what the object is going to collide with. Since these games run at a certain frame rate, a really fast moving projectile can pass through an object if the timing is right. Because there is nothing between frames, if a projectile is moving so fast that it 'skips' the thing it was supposed to hit 'in between' frames this can be an issue.

Continuous collision detection evaluates everything that happened between frames by detecting everything between the object's previous position and it's current position, accounting for anything that may have been skipped. By "looking ahead a frame" (extrapolation), it can negate the problem. It's more overhead, but that's the price you pay for consistency.

Also, I realized that each projectile has its own mesh... which is worrying for a number of reasons. I wonder if they are batched or if each mesh results in its own draw call. That would be crazy inefficient.

[PhoenixFire55]

Happens very often. For me it was especially noticable with my Griffins. Its not just high speed projectiles tho, its pretty much anything as long as you run fast enough towards the target. Same goes for my own shots, cored a Catapult that was running towards me in the rear with an AC20 shot that actually landed on its face.

[Product9]

Hmm. It shouldn't happen with lasers, assuming the game uses a single raycast for the beam.

Or are you just saying it even happens with the relatively slow AC/20 projectiles? Does anybody know what framerate (or tickrate) the servers are running at?

Edited by Product9, 01 July 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Random Carnage]

0.11 isn't it?

[kesmai]

Everything working as intended. See TT rules for damage application...

[Idealsuspect]

The best is when you shoot someone in his back and he take damage only in front armor ^^

[PhoenixFire55]

Product9, on 01 July 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

Hmm. It shouldn't happen with lasers, assuming the game uses a single raycast for the beam.

It obviously doesn't otherwise how would you be able to do partial laser damage.

Product9, on 01 July 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

Or are you just saying it even happens with the relatively slow AC/20 projectiles? Does anybody know what framerate (or tickrate) the servers are running at?

I think we used to have a tickrate of ~120 back in CB. Its much much lower now due to their backwater servers which is what lead to the entire HSR crap in the first place. Crutches that compensate greed.

[PhoenixFire55]

Idealsuspect, on 01 July 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

The best is when you shoot someone in his back and he take damage only in front armor ^^

It is indeed working as intended. Launch into testing grounds on Canyons, there will be a Centurion immidiately to your right. Shoot it into its rear left torso until you blow it off, then keep shooting RLT and watch how front CT is taking damage.

[AnTi90d]

While I have experienced bullets phasing through me to hit on the other side of my armor, that specific example is not from this bug. The Centurion's internal structure is being damaged; since it has no structure left in the rear torso, the damage passes to the center torso structure.

[Idealsuspect]

PhoenixFire55, on 01 July 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

It is indeed working as intended. Launch into testing grounds on Canyons, there will be a Centurion immidiately to your right. Shoot it into its rear left torso until you blow it off, then keep shooting RLT and watch how front CT is taking damage.

I dont talk about this ... i talk about shoot a fresh mech, hit his RLT and see damage only affect LT ^^

Edited by Idealsuspect, 01 July 2016 - 06:38 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

AnTi90d, on 01 July 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

While I have experienced bullets phasing through me to hit on the other side of my armor, that specific example is not from this bug. The Centurion's internal structure is being damaged; since it has no structure left in the rear torso, the damage passes to the center torso structure.

Nope. Watch this video. Clearly its the front armor that takes damage. Working as Intended^TM.

[Idealsuspect]

PhoenixFire55, on 01 July 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

Nope. Watch this video. Clearly its the front armor that takes damage. Working as Intended^TM.

But isnt same with all mechs ? I am pretty sure it is .. well i should go in testing ground before post but anyway i am in a game xD

Edit : Well i did test it and yea its same with all mechs not only centurion.
Its same mechaniks than if you keep shoot a destroyed leg, arm or any component damage will go to front closer component.
But you can try with ERPPC splash damage will go to rear armor if you shoot an arms from back until he is destroyed, then if you keep shoot arms you will hit front armor of next componant side torso in this case and it will do same to CT if you continu...

Also i don't see any problem there.
Isn't same case when you shoot someone in RLT and damage go to LT >>> this is a f**** problem.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 01 July 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

PhoenixFire55, on 01 July 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

I think we used to have a tickrate of ~120 back in CB. Its much much lower now due to their backwater servers which is what lead to the entire HSR crap in the first place. Crutches that compensate greed.

I don't think we ever had a tickrate that high (last I knew we are stuck with 30), I think at one point the servers were "accidentally" set to something like 15-20 before everyone complained it was too low (because it is). I don't know if it is their tick rate, collision detection (since a projectile could potentially collide with multiple hitboxes at the same time, how does it resolves which one actually got collided with), or just something wonky with HSRs rewinding, but it is definitely a thing.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 July 2016 - 06:42 AM.

[Product9]

If the tickrate is relatively low, and they aren't using some form of continuous collision detection, then it's possible projectiles are passing through stuff pretty frequently... this could be the reason PPCs seem so unreliable too, but it's just a guess.

In fact, this could be the reason why they can't have mechs that go faster than 170 kph or whatever... although that might be somewhat more difficult to solve.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I don't know but nothing seems to have improved. Had an ACH literally stand in front of me the other day. I gave him three 58 pt alphas at less then 75 mtrs and he never changed color. That was happening back in august of last year.

Game is as borked as it ever was.