41 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

I know that MWO isn't exactly the hardest game to understand, but it also doesn't explain itself very well to people coming into Battletech/Mechwarrior fresh.

What do you think the next tutorials should be to help new players, or just those who don't know a lot, get used to and understand this game?

Personally I feel that Training Academy needs a game mode run through, akin to the basic training's free roam style that allows the pilot to select a game mode to be trained in and then scripted events will kick off with an explanation, walk through, guided instructions, and situations of different ways to win (i.e. conquest win through point limit or survival with most points). Ideally it should be divided into Quick Play done first, and then later Faction Play after a basic FP tutorial is made.

[Johnny Z]

Intro, even if just text.

Character creation, like choose faction or freelancer. Starter mech based on that.

Insta drop into current tutorial. Then into mechbay.

All of the above can be improved big time.

[JediPanther]

GAME MODES. Not one tutorial in the academy for how to do any objective in any game mode. Youtube isn't a game tutorial. The nes and 16 bit eras gave you printed instructions. Now? Youtube. It needs to have a simulated match with ai team mates vs ai enemy. Make the ai team mates able to do simple actions such as responding to the command whee with the mini map. Make them able to be ordered through the battle grid full sized map. Go here command they move to that area. Attack target X they go attack target X etc. Force them to win using the stated victory conditions of that game mode. Skirmish they must kill all the enemy. conquest they must get the full seven-fifty points. Dom they have to fight the enemy out of the circle while being able to use the battle grid to order their light lance or whatever to flank to destroy alpha/beta or attack from behind.

Rip off Bethesda's companion system from elder scrolls/fallout with a knock off version. Pgi doing a simple 'follow' would be nice. I'd love to have an ai mech just follow me doing nothing else until it got so shot up it was destroyed. That alone would prove pgi is doing more than just working on the next mech pack to sell and a fubar patch of features that need hot fixing asap.

[TLBFestus]

Visual demonstrations of;

Double vs Single heat sinks
Weapon range
Ghost heat (or it's replacement)
ECM
Mechlab



Ha haaaaaha ha ha!!! That'll send them running for the hills!

[fat4eyes]

Basic circle of death fight vs AI on an open arena (also a good way to test their AI code if they really are working on PvE). Basic poke tutorial (how to use cover, looking for advantageous exchanges).

And yeah, the mechlab too. I can't even imagine what it's like for a new player who didn't play any of the previous MW games.

[Johnny Z]

JediPanther, on 04 July 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

GAME MODES. Not one tutorial in the academy for how to do any objective in any game mode. Youtube isn't a game tutorial. The nes and 16 bit eras gave you printed instructions. Now? Youtube. It needs to have a simulated match with ai team mates vs ai enemy. Make the ai team mates able to do simple actions such as responding to the command whee with the mini map. Make them able to be ordered through the battle grid full sized map. Go here command they move to that area. Attack target X they go attack target X etc. Force them to win using the stated victory conditions of that game mode. Skirmish they must kill all the enemy. conquest they must get the full seven-fifty points. Dom they have to fight the enemy out of the circle while being able to use the battle grid to order their light lance or whatever to flank to destroy alpha/beta or attack from behind.

Rip off Bethesda's companion system from elder scrolls/fallout with a knock off version. Pgi doing a simple 'follow' would be nice. I'd love to have an ai mech just follow me doing nothing else until it got so shot up it was destroyed. That alone would prove pgi is doing more than just working on the next mech pack to sell and a fubar patch of features that need hot fixing asap.

An in game video of a match with immersive narration would be a great idea maybe.

[JediPanther]

Possibly but I think an interactive tutorial would be best. A video just doesn't cut it when it comes to things like learning how to fight off that small pulse laser ach. You slam your mech in reverse in the opposite direction the ach is trying to circle and focus fire at its legs. Any smart and experienced light pilot will disengage any target that is firing only at its legs.

[Threat Doc]

I would like to see an introduction to the BattleTech universe, itself, perhaps where PGI contacts folks who've made great videos, or they make a video themself, and that video plays for the SHORT introduction, while also pointing out a page where anyone with a real interest in finding out more can find links to more videos and/or reading. Once that's done, I would like something more on factions, also by way of a video and reference to a page with links. PGI were supposed to build a unit database, where Player-Commanders could fill out a form, choosing important information about their unit, then putting together a narrative, so players looking to join a unit could maybe also fill out their own form for what they're looking for in a unit, and then matching could be done to allow them to get into a unit.

Now, the faction video I'm talking about would address Freelancers, Mercenaries and Loyalists, the differences between PUG and Faction play, and a short list of Pro's and Con's for each of PUG and Faction play.

Finally, I want to see free maps made available for factions to be able to have a place to train their new people and, if their unit wants to establish a training regimen they should be allowed to train, with only the people under their unit logo and identifier, in those environments, FOR FREE. I understand that PGI has to make money to be able to survive, and that training events COULD be abused, and most likely would be, but for those honest units out there who would make honest use, and want to have actual training for their unit members, for better coordination, this is an absolute MUST. When those honest units, who have been training honestly, start to come out and whoop on the less-than-honest units, those other units will also begin to see the value of using the free training allowed by the magnanimous PGI.

You asked. These are the things I want to see, for now; baby steps, right?

[p4r4g0n]

Kay Wolf, on 06 July 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

-snip-
Finally, I want to see free maps made available for factions to be able to have a place to train their new people and, if their unit wants to establish a training regimen they should be allowed to train, with only the people under their unit logo and identifier, in those environments, FOR FREE. I understand that PGI has to make money to be able to survive, and that training events COULD be abused, and most likely would be, but for those honest units out there who would make honest use, and want to have actual training for their unit members, for better coordination, this is an absolute MUST. When those honest units, who have been training honestly, start to come out and whoop on the less-than-honest units, those other units will also begin to see the value of using the free training allowed by the magnanimous PGI.

You asked. These are the things I want to see, for now; baby steps, right?

No offence but I cannot see this as being a viable option and the alternative of player hosted server instances are probably even less likely.

Without limits, I can foresee a huge number of "training" game instances being started up for combat training and with limits, the whine from those who cannot get a slot will be epic.

Maybe the ability to spectate a trainee in the Academy or Training Grounds with PGI servers acting as intermediate connection?


P.S. Rather than another post to respond to an ad hominem attack, I would like to point you to the suggestion at the end of my post in bold which is more likely to be implemented.

Kay Wolf, on 06 July 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

You are a paragon of nothing; why does it always have to be negative? "Oh, it's never going to happen!" Holy ****, find a positive, can-do attitude, will ya?

Edited by p4r4g0n, 06 July 2016 - 08:39 PM.

[Threat Doc]

You are a paragon of nothing; why does it always have to be negative? "Oh, it's never going to happen!" Holy ****, find a positive, can-do attitude, will ya?

[Commander A9]

A tutorial on Faction Warfare and how to play together as a team.

[ZonaW]

One extremely important tutorial topic would be teaching the friendly fire avoidance. How to limit damage when someone runs at the line of fire and how to avoid getting shot by accident. FF is harsh, especially if one have been playing games that don't have it at all. (yeah, I'm sorry)

I know it's not in any way fair to compare this game to GW2, cause it's not free to play and most likely have at least decade more resoures at dev team. But at the same time, It's tutorials + co-operative PvE leveling makes it a lot more accessable for new players. At the same time, player can make a new character (or even buy a new account) and jump directly to PvP or WvW if one choses to do so.

[ionandman]

ultra-modern ?
ultra-antiquity ?

[Ignatz22]

JediPanther, on 04 July 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

GAME MODES. Not one tutorial in the academy for how to do any objective in any game mode. Youtube isn't a game tutorial. The nes and 16 bit eras gave you printed instructions. Now? Youtube. It needs to have a simulated match with ai team mates vs ai enemy. Make the ai team mates able to do simple actions such as responding to the command whee with the mini map. Make them able to be ordered through the battle grid full sized map. Go here command they move to that area. Attack target X they go attack target X etc. Force them to win using the stated victory conditions of that game mode. Skirmish they must kill all the enemy. conquest they must get the full seven-fifty points. Dom they have to fight the enemy out of the circle while being able to use the battle grid to order their light lance or whatever to flank to destroy alpha/beta or attack from behind.

Rip off Bethesda's companion system from elder scrolls/fallout with a knock off version. Pgi doing a simple 'follow' would be nice. I'd love to have an ai mech just follow me doing nothing else until it got so shot up it was destroyed. That alone would prove pgi is doing more than just working on the next mech pack to sell and a fubar patch of features that need hot fixing asap.

Keen idea, use Oblivion's Armored Warfare PvE mode, wherein anyone can team up in small groups against AI controlled objectives. Easier grinding, fast entry to matches, good chance to meet players and help them outside competitive arenas. Also, good place to test builds as no one in the team is essential to victory. Drop the stats, make it a non-competitive grinding/learning area.
It works there....

[supraphoneix]

how to form a firing line.
uses of cover
and if at all possible forming up at a said location when under fire.my pick of maps would be polar due to low vallys and caynons. and not seeing land marks

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Don't wanna be mean or anything but..

..do we really need to spend more time and resources on the academy?

We get like 2 new players each year nowadays.
One is like "did i misspelled hawken"?
And the other one is probably able to figure stuff out without adams telling him where his legs are pointing.

I would rather have said time and resources spent on keeping the existing playerbase before the real exodus kicks in.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 07 October 2016 - 01:20 PM.

[BodakOfSseth]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 07 October 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Don't wanna be mean or anything but..

..do we really need to spend more time and resources on the academy?

We get like 2 new players each year nowadays.
One is like "did i misspelled hawken"?
And the other one is probably able to figure stuff out without adams telling him where his legs are pointing.

I would rather have said time and resources spent on keeping the existing playerbase before the real exodus kicks in.

I respectfully disagree. As a new player myself, and playing in lower tiers, I see a lot of clear newbs mucking around trying to learn the game. In fact, was spectating on a new player yesterday and giving basic advice: "lead the target. keep moving. Swing left. Torso twist to pick up visual targets".
Heck, good newbs even call themselves out. "I'm a total newb so don't follow me" or "I'm not sure what I'm doing with this mech"


Academy is really useful to get started, and gives some okay rewards to get started.
HOWEVER - the OP is right, it's very limited for what it is.
I also strongly agree with the idea that it could be a testing ground for the AI, should PGI ever get to it.

That said, Academy does have its limits, and there's no incentive to the newb who wants to go blow up robots right now.
There are some really great basic tools there. The shooting gallery is awesome to teach you some basics about leading the targets. The mission to avoid being cored is cool too. But as far as I can tell, there's no reward other than your basic self-pat on the back for completing them or scoring well on them.

To that I say:
Give the reward of a basic mech. It doesn't even have to be a very good one. Yes, newbs get to play with the trial mechs, and at the end of their first 25 games, they do indeed have enough to get a mech or two (I was able to get two Cataphracts - yes, I know they "suck". I stand by my decision)... and upgrade them. This frees up the newbs to make a mech choice with far less stress, gives them something to tinker with, without spending too much in the way of c-bills, and all gives them a much more pleasant experience.

There should absolutely be a minimum bar to reach to get that free mech. Score silver or higher in all the shooting gallery tests, coring run tests, and a few (all?) others. Successfully kill each of the turret mechs once in the city across the river. maybe kill them all in one session without dying (rearms and repairs allowed).

I think one other training mode might be a good idea - the idea of base capture. the problem is figuring out how to make it a challenge that would count towards earning the mech. Here's a scratchpad idea:

Dominate: Put an enemy mech in the circle, forcing it to count down.
Challenge: Navigate to circle, find and destroy the enemy mech (possibly as a turret mech), sit in timer zone for it to run down.
Challenge levels based on time, possibly having an enemy turret outside the circle forcing the player to find a hiding place for the counter to run down, or have different size enemy mechs to kill. (no repair/rearm available)
Bonus round: enemy mechs spawn in different locations each time the mission is started.

Conquest: Put down two resource nodes, both flagged for the enemy, resource counter at zero but counting up to 750 (or some other value)
Challenge: Player must successfully navigate to flagged bases, capture them both in time to prevent the resource counter timing out.
Challenge levels based on time or enemy resources gathered.

Assault: Put down both bases and 2+ enemy turret mechs, scattered around the map. Set mission timer at 5-10(?) minutes.
Challenge: Player must successfully navigate to enemy base or destroy all turret mechs within mission timer.
Challenge levels based on time, number of enemy turret mechs, possibly placing one inside enemy base to defend it.

Edited by ScottAleric, 10 October 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

Yes, I'm replying to myself. Bad forum etiquette. I'm sorry (not sorry).

Quote

Dominate: Put an enemy mech in the circle, forcing it to count down.
Challenge: Navigate to circle, find and destroy the enemy mech (possibly as a turret mech), sit in timer zone for it to run down.
Challenge levels based on time, possibly having an enemy turret outside the circle forcing the player to find a hiding place for the counter to run down, or have different size enemy mechs to kill. (no repair/rearm available)
Bonus round: enemy mechs spawn in different locations each time the mission is started.

Conquest: Put down two resource nodes, both flagged for the enemy, resource counter at zero but counting up to 750 (or some other value)
Challenge: Player must successfully navigate to flagged bases, capture them both in time to prevent the resource counter timing out.
Challenge levels based on time or enemy resources gathered.

Assault: Put down both bases and 2+ enemy turret mechs, scattered around the map. Set mission timer at 5-10(?) minutes.
Challenge: Player must successfully navigate to enemy base or destroy all turret mechs within mission timer.
Challenge levels based on time, number of enemy turret mechs, possibly placing one inside enemy base to defend it.

Here's the thing. Yes, it may cause longer load times for the system to set up the challenge, because you're basically pulling the mission logic from the PvP construct over into the academy PvE construct - but the mission logic is already there. As far as that goes, you don't need to add a whole lot other than assets that have already been built:
Missions, dumb-turret mechs.
PGI would have to add a script for Adams to follow.
I don't know what kind of strain it would cause on their servers.

Some testing would have to be done to make sure balance is correct, and if you go with the Mech Reward route to encourage newbs to utilize it, PGI would have to figure out what base mech to give away.

Re: The free mech:
This should be relatively easy - Pick a mech variant that was available when the game launched. The old hands either should already have it, or not want it, and the newbs will be thrilled to get a free mech.

Advantages:
- It introduces players to account injections (my first time was like OMG WHUT DID I BRAEK??)
- It increases customer loyalty (OMG I GOT A FREE MECH? YAASSS). (Also see Reciprocity).
- You could, if you want, reduce the overall rewards for the cadet bonus - thus allowing the community at large say "what do you mean you're having problems with enough funds to get started? Haven't you gotten your free mech yet?"
- Newbs are likely to have a fairly decent skill set when they start and are less likely to whine about how hard the game is and/or ragequit - especially if you include Adams saying something like "Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living, that's something else."
https://youtu.be/tOuCbDkKIs4
- It's unlikely to greatly affect the meta, since you're not actually changing the stats of anything in-game
There are probably more I haven't thought of.

Disadvantages:
To be sure, some vets will go back and complete the trials to get the free mech - then complain about how terrible the mech is and how lame the reward is, or how stupid the training is and how it's going to ruin their meta.
But honestly, haters gonna hate.
That said, they too have the choice - go back and complete the challenges themselves to get the reward mech, or not.
There are probably more I haven't thought of.

Edited by ScottAleric, 10 October 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[poltraite]

It took me ages to figure out what account injections are.

It took me ages to figure out what all the little icons on the HUD actually mean.

After several months of play I finally navigated my way through the forums and found the answers.

The testing grounds are great for exploring and learning maps and checking weapons etc, I would like to see a testing ground with an option for to add at least one ai mech to practice defensive playing as well.

The mechs on the tutorial grounds attack hard and fast. for beginners its not very helpful, or there's something i've missed there.

I've noticed aiming is always a problem with players and i can only guess that they're using a joystick to play and joysticks are crap for aiming.

8 months down the line, I'm still learning, but mostly from the forums and watching videos of other players for advice, play styles etc...

[Peter2k]

poltraite, on 17 November 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

The testing grounds are great for exploring and learning maps and checking weapons etc, I would like to see a testing ground with an option for to add at least one ai mech to practice defensive playing as well.

well I think for target practice having 2 or 3 AI mechs that just walk around would be good too
but it was more a mode to test YOUR build
like heat,effectiveness, weapons groups and so on

not checking youre play style I guess
but then adding some simple AI for walking around at least shouldn't be that hard

but then the tutorial hasn't progressed any more, so rather unlikely

poltraite, on 17 November 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

The mechs on the tutorial grounds attack hard and fast. for beginners its not very helpful, or there's something i've missed there.

was a way for PGI to tryout AI ingame and for players who wanted to see something come out of it
and it kinda stalled and has not progressed