26 replies to this topic

[Besh]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 13 July 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

Let me start of by saying I personally "do not spot" or "Hold Targets" for friendly LRMs. I do target enemies, and I wont hesitate to put an enemy in my target window. But i do that at my own peril, for my own targeting. What that means is, i play defensively unless a call is made to do otherwise. So, I will use cover and try to trade with my opponents as needed.

I will not just expose myself haphazardly so that friendly LRM boats can hide behind the team and use me as a bullet sponge. I expect friendly LRM mechs to share their armor value with the rest of the team.

Now dont get me wrong, I will share my target locks with the team, and I understand LRMs are a weapon system that some people prefer. I dont intentionally drop my targets so LRM mechs cant shoot enemies. I just wont stand out in the open and just paint a bullseye on my mech.

A lot of LRM pilots (not all, but many) think they are more important than the rest of the team, and literally sacrifice their team mates so that they can lob missles safely from behind cover. An LRM pilot should go get his own locks if he has nothing targetable. Its good that you go out there and get your own locks as needed. But to say your amazed that people wont go get you locks is ridiculous.

I guess what I am trying to say is; being exposed for long periods of time can be pretty dangerous in this game; so if your team mates have no locks for you, you shouldnt fault them. Everyone has to share the risk, you shouldnt treat your team mates as expendable pieces of metal placed on the battlefield solely to go out and get locks for you and then die under the overwhelming weight of incomming enemy fire.

^This, 100 times .

Edited by Besh, 13 July 2016 - 02:02 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I'm not surprised, I've seen a lot of people put off LRMs. You missed the "in which case they run" part.

Like I said, these guys I'm talking about, literally do nothing useful in any situation.

They can have light mech with bunch of useless weapons like machine guns, they get taken along the last with no damage prior taken, and no assist points. Though I'm not sure if just spotting gets assist damage points, still, no prior damage means no prior exposure to enemy. That is very amazing.

One guy I noticed had ECM, Narc, 1x medium laser 1x5 LRMs, he too got taken amoung the last with 0 assist score with previously no damage taken.


If someone just briefly shoots at the enemy with long range weapons, in those situations yeah it's difficult to get a full lock, but at least there's attempt, and chance for me to fire. I probably lose 20% of my missiles when I'm about to fire and the lock doesnt' finish. I can improve that.

[Besh]

Its actually not about "put off LRMs" . Its about the attitude of many LRM users . In short, dont expect your Teammates to stick their Heads out putting themselves into harms way just so that you can comfortably lob LRMs from bhind cover ( As Kerensky has put much better and elaborately in his post above ) .

In most Situations, LRMs are best used at midrange ( 750 and less meters distance ), and good LRM players often can rely on their own HardLocks, bring their own TAGs/NARCs . Why ? Because traveltime, potential cover and loosing Lock on your Target makes LRMs pretty much useless often ( if not used on LoS ) . Also, a LOT of LRM users do not seem to know Artemis needs LoS fully to work...

In effect, a LRM Boat who requires/asks others to spot locks for them , so they can lob LRMs "safely" far away from where the actual fight is, often harms the Team, in at least 3 ways:

- the spotter(s) are taken out of an active fighting role since they need to try and stay in cover spotting...nevertheless, they are in danger. IF being seen themselves, ONE well placed shot can end a Light Spotter .
- there is one less Target for the enemy to shoot at if the LRMBoat stays passively out of the fight bhind the Line(s) for "indirect fire" ( 2 actually, if you also count the spotter in ). More pressure on those actively engaging the enemy .
- The passive LRMBoats do not contribute to the Armor sharing ( =dmg. the enemy Team needs to do to collectively take all my Team out ) .

If used properly, LRMs are pretty effective . The way quite a lot of people want to use them....is simply lazy on the expense of others, and often to the detriment of their Team's success .

Dont get me wrong . I play mostly Lights so far, and I am very often really thankfull when an alert and quick reacting LRM Mech locks onto a Mech I am engaging and rains hell on him while I pewpew him with my Lasers . On the other hand, if some LRM Boat goes like "please spot and hold Locks for me so I can LRM" in chat before the Match, I simply say "No. Get your own Locks" ...

Edited by Besh, 13 July 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Besh, on 13 July 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Its actually not about "put off LRMs" . Its about the attitude of many LRM users . In short, dont expect your Teammates to stick their Heads out putting themselves into harms way just so that you can comfortably lob LRMs from bhind cover ( As Kerensky has put much better and elaborately in his post above ) .

This is 100% correct. I would never expect them to put themselves in danger just to maintain a lock for me.

That being said, they should be locking stuff by reflex, which a LOT of players do not do. My LRMs have a direct affect on whether or not your team wins, which means it's in your best interest to lock. Locks benefit more than just LRM boats...they also expose enemy positions to the rest of your team.

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In most Situations, LRMs are best used at midrange ( 750 and less meters distance ), and good LRM players often can rely on their own HardLocks, bring their own TAGs/NARCs . Why ? Because traveltime, potential cover and loosing Lock on your Target makes LRMs pretty much useless often ( if not used on LoS ) . Also, a LOT of LRM users do not seem to know Artemis needs LoS fully to work...

TAG causes more problems than it solves in my experience...because it telegraphs your position. That is why I would only expect Scouts to carry it. Scouts can evade the return fire much easier than LRM boats can. Narcs are definitely useful, but not critical. I have won lots of times without them.

Honestly the single most useful piece of equipment for LRM boats is UAVs. I can annihilate an Assault mech entirely with missiles with a well positioned UAV.

An LRM boat with Artemis or a targeting computer can usually compensate for cover...I get probably half my missile kills from re-aquisitions. The target will hide and think he's broken the lock, then peek out again, allowing me to re-aquire. So the missiles already in transit end up hitting him.

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If used properly, LRMs are pretty effective . The way quite a lot of people want to use them....is simply lazy on the expense of others, and often to the detriment of their Team's success .

LRMs distract the enemy and erode armor. I have handed MANY kills to teammates because they could easily punch through armor that my LRMs significantly weakened. So it does go both ways. Helping LRM boats helps you as well.

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Dont get me wrong . I play mostly Lights so far, and I am very often really thankfull when an alert and quick reacting LRM Mech locks onto a Mech I am engaging and rains hell on him while I pewpew him with my Lasers . On the other hand, if some LRM Boat goes like "please spot and hold Locks for me so I can LRM" in chat before the Match, I simply say "No. Get your own Locks" ...

Lights are always a primary target for me, because IMO they are really the most dangerous. So if I see a light fight, I immediately LRM them. Missiles are not impressed by the small silhouette or speed of enemy light mechs. If they are distracted by friendly lights, they become easy targets.

You should not be telling LRM boats to get their own locks. You should consider locking by reflex a part of your job. Pilots that do not lock by reflex are bad pilots. You should always have something targeted. That is not just for light pilots, that's for everyone.

[Sadistic Savior]

Teer5, on 13 July 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm not surprised, I've seen a lot of people put off LRMs. You missed the "in which case they run" part.

Like I said, these guys I'm talking about, literally do nothing useful in any situation.

They might be new players. New players often play a support role, because it's the easiest (not that support does not take skill, but of all the roles it is the easiest). LRMs will distract the enemy even if they do nothing else. And that is useful.

LRMing is more about strategy than tactics. If you get too close to the front line and get overrun, there is nothing you can do to defend yourself. So you have to prepare ahead of time. Yes, that means exploiting teammates as armor or distraction. But the teammates are getting something out of it as well...it's a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one.

[Besh]

Sadistic Savior, on 13 July 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

[...]

You should not be telling LRM boats to get their own locks. You should consider locking by reflex a part of your job. Pilots that do not lock by reflex are bad pilots. You should always have something targeted. That is not just for light pilots, that's for everyone.

I am . I am one of those guys who tells people in Chat bfore a Match "please use R to lock your Targets" .

[Horse Pryde]

Rule #457: At least 4 teammates are required to follow and try to kill every light that runs past them regardless of what is happening in the battle.