37 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Remember this?



Specifically, after 3:30, you can clearly see the chin turret mounted with medium pulse lasers. And that chin turret actually serves a very practical purpose in urban warfare too (cause you can shoot down), and unlike most current mechs with "fixed" placement on torso hardpoints, that chin pod can point in a wider range of angle like unlocked arm.

So, why did that go away? Currently, none of the MDD variants have center torso hardpoints. I am fairly certain in MW4, that chin turret is omni hardpoints.

Is it just too much trouble to code something like that in MWO? Though I have no recollection, fairly sure MDD is not the only mech to be able to deploy a turret type pods on the torso that allows wider shooting angle. And honestly, pods can give uniqueness to mechs and alter gameplay as well.

Imagine if your MDD can how now be a highground sniper (well, I guess it already is because of the arm mounts, but I digress) because of its ability to aim down. I dunno... something like that.

What you guys think?

[ice trey]

Because it was never there. MW4's Mad dog was a microsoft artistic liberty on the original design that had been around for more than a decade before. The chin turret was also absent in Mechwarrior 2, Mechwarrior 3, and Mech Commander. The original Mad Dog design was far more sleek, like a shark fin.

MW4's hard points system was one thing I hated about the game. Not only as a gamer on PC who was now force-fed non-canon variants of 'mechs that couldn't be reconfigured to their canon loadouts, but later as a Battletech player (Admittedly made one thanks to MS screwing the pooch with the Mechwarrior licence so heavily that it drove me to seek out the board game in spite of no players in my neighborhood just to curb my cravings), when anyone who knew about the Mechwarrior series was overwhelmed by the actual Battletech record sheets, which were pretty much exactly what you see in Mechwarrior 2, 3, and MWO, but nothing like MW4.

Edited by ice trey, 07 July 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[CycKath]

They sort of introduced it later, initially bringing the look of the MW4 Vulturue into the table-top game with the Vulture mk II (same stats as standard version, just production runs in Clan factories in the Inner Sphere) and eventually the look/ stats and formal CT energy mounts in the Vulture Mk III.

Edited by CycKath, 07 July 2016 - 02:37 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

The Vulture MK II was never canonized (afaik a 70t Mech and only in MekTek)
afaik the only MekTek that was canonized was the Deimos

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 07 July 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

The Vulture MK II was never canonized (afaik a 70t Mech and only in MekTek)
afaik the only MekTek that was canonized was the Deimos

Nope, it was... officially it was a Mad Dog that was adjusted to be produced in the IS by the Ghost Bear Domnion....


Edit:

Vulture Mk. II

Produced by Bergan Industries for Clan Ghost Bear, the Vulture Mk. II is functionally identical to the original, but has a slightly different appearance in terms of armor, structure, engine mounting and other cosmetic areas due to being produced from factories using Spheroid tooling.

The MechWarrior 4 series actually showed the Medium Pulse Lasers in a chin rack, the results are the moving of the Medium Pulse Lasers into the Center Torso, this model is called the Mad Dog Mk II (Vulture Mk II) by the online BattleTech Community.


Source: http://www.sarna.net...ect=no#Variants

Edited by Metus regem, 07 July 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[Lily from animove]

forget mw4 some of the worst mech deisgn interpretions ever.

Intro was, cool, but the mechs really horrible.

[Karl Streiger]

MW4 brought us the Uziel
but Executioner and Hauptmann were ugly as hell - while Fafnir looked better ...so it is not better nor worser than other
and don't forget the Hellhound - people will become rabid when you insult their hellhound.

[Jables McBarty]

Ugh, thank god it's not there. I always hated it.

Apparently some people like it though, cause this is not the first time I've seen the question come up.

Now check out this beautiful baby:

[Death Proof]

I think it'd be cool to have a few mechs with head or torso turrets that track with your arms instead of your torso reticle.

[Tordin]

Lily from animove, on 07 July 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

forget mw4 some of the worst mech deisgn interpretions ever.

Intro was, cool, but the mechs really horrible.

Say what? Some were great, some were... horrid to say the least.
I loved the Vulture MK II. Uziel were nice too.

Regarding the chin mount, why not? Good idea and it always seemed to me that something was missing on the chin. Perfectly fit for armament.
I want it in MWO as much as a certain other who wants his Mad Cat Mk II.
I dont want the chin vulture replace the original, it should stay as a separate mad dog type.

The chin mount could have som nice CT hardpoint loadouts. 2 missile, 2 energy, 2 ballistics or a mix etc
I think the one in the MW Vengeance intro used 1 x ballistics in each arm, 2 x energy in center torso and 1x missile in each side torso.

2 x Clan autocannon 5, 2 x Clan ER medium pulse lasers and 2 x Clan lrm 20 if Im not mistaken.

Jables McBarty, on 07 July 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

Ugh, thank god it's not there. I always hated it.

Apparently some people like it though, cause this is not the first time I've seen the question come up.

No real good reason to hinder the apperance of mechs you hate in getting included. For example. I cant stand the look of the Annhiliator, not sure how it can look appealing in modern MWO form the concepts. But some like it. I think every possible mech should have the chance to prove itself on the battlefield in MWO and adjust thereafter.

Came to think of it... the Flea, the Locust missing cousing.. I so want that one too..

Edited by Tordin, 07 July 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Deathlike]

ice trey, on 07 July 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

MW4's hard points system was one thing I hated about the game. Not only as a gamer on PC who was now force-fed non-canon variants of 'mechs that couldn't be reconfigured to their canon loadouts, but later as a Battletech player (Admittedly made one thanks to MS screwing the pooch with the Mechwarrior licence so heavily that it drove me to seek out the board game in spite of no players in my neighborhood just to curb my cravings), when anyone who knew about the Mechwarrior series was overwhelmed by the actual Battletech record sheets, which were pretty much exactly what you see in Mechwarrior 2, 3, and MWO, but nothing like MW4.

I get hating the hardpoint system - I did too once upon a time. I got over it though.

Consider this, how would you have differentiated mechs and given a reason to drive them?

If we had used the system that MW2 or MW3 did, then wouldn't the point of the system is to find the mech with the best hitboxes?


I'm not even saying that a MW4 Dire Wolf's CT with the Heavy Gauss would be legit - it's obvious as heck that isn't normally possible, but how could one possibly make every mech distinct AND useful?

MW4's system was flawed, but for the purposes of a video game, it gave a purpose to every mech (of course, some better than others) and whining over a design decision that was the primary reason to care about other mechs - for the purposes of a video game - is silly.

[razenWing]

So, because of Microsoft, the MDD with the chin turret is canonized as MDD MK2?

I think I agree with the assessment that some mechs look good in Mech4, but some are horrid.

Like, the catapult, it's like a passenger aircraft with out of no where legs and missile pods. MWO's design blow it out of the water by like a mile.

However, comparing MW4 hellhound vs Sarna lore hellhound, you have to give MS credit that their design team did hell of a job to make hellhound look more to the name "hellhound."

And I disagree with people's assessment of the Gladiator (Executioner). The current design is basically like an Atlas clone. Though the MW4 walking 20 gallon trashbin design is technically not "cool," but at least it's unique.

Uziel? One of the coolest mech around.

A lot of Sarna lore designs are straight rip-off of Japanese Robotech and Gundam universe. I thought MW4 did a good job to distance itself from a lot of that nonsense. Beside, the game was made in an era where it's like 20 polygons per models, so with what they had at the time, I thought they did a good job.

(then against, MW3 is just too good. I think that's why people hate on MW4 so much.)

Ok, back to my point, if the chin mount is canonized, then I am all for having a MDD MK2 version at some point. (Is the weight change canon as well? Cause the mk2 design is still 60 tons in MW4, but on Sarna, the MK2 is 70 tons)

[wanderer]

Quote

I think it'd be cool to have a few mechs with head or torso turrets that track with your arms instead of your torso reticle.

Actual "turrets on Mechs" isn't a tournament level ruleset thing, but they most assuredly exist.

[Snowbluff]

Concerning the chin turret: IF the MDD had a chin turret, it would need an actuator to move, which would take up a slot. Since the mechs can only have 2 slots max in the CT after the engine and gyros and stuff (assuming no compact equipment), that leaves 1 slot for a weapon, so no space for 2 medium pulse lasers.

[Lord Perversor]

Deathlike, on 07 July 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

I get hating the hardpoint system - I did too once upon a time. I got over it though.

Consider this, how would you have differentiated mechs and given a reason to drive them?

If we had used the system that MW2 or MW3 did, then wouldn't the point of the system is to find the mech with the best hitboxes?


I'm not even saying that a MW4 Dire Wolf's CT with the Heavy Gauss would be legit - it's obvious as heck that isn't normally possible, but how could one possibly make every mech distinct AND useful?

MW4's system was flawed, but for the purposes of a video game, it gave a purpose to every mech (of course, some better than others) and whining over a design decision that was the primary reason to care about other mechs - for the purposes of a video game - is silly.

Heh i remember running a 3x Long tomb Dwolf in mw4 just for fun!

[wanderer]

Quote

Concerning the chin turret: IF the MDD had a chin turret, it would need an actuator to move, which would take up a slot. Since the mechs can only have 2 slots max in the CT after the engine and gyros and stuff (assuming no compact equipment), that leaves 1 slot for a weapon, so no space for 2 medium pulse lasers.

It basically ends up like the TT Wolverine in that regard- it's fluff more than performance.

[CycKath]

Oh, people seem to be confused. The chin turret mount was brought over to table-top, but as a CT mounts, so in MWO they'd be fixed forward. No turret. Enjoy.

[DaZur]

Conical or not... Would be interesting to have/see.

Could easily be coded in to function as a third arm albeit located in the CT.

Would have liked the articulated gun points like this for the Marauder etc. as well...

Edited by DaZur, 07 July 2016 - 02:50 PM.

[Metus regem]

CycKath, on 07 July 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

Oh, people seem to be confused. The chin turret mount was brought over to table-top, but as a CT mounts, so in MWO they'd be fixed forward. No turret. Enjoy.

Other way around, the Vulture II got a TRO write up after MW4....

[Steve Pryde]

The MW4 Mad Dog was a good alternative design and his walking animation was really good too but I like the more narrow standard version more.