22 replies to this topic

[Biadetic]

Hey guys how are you? So I've been playing a fair bit recently and getting the hang of certain parts of the game. But I don't understand how to brawl effectively? Can someone explain the basic concept of what the plan of action is? I've seen brawly mechs mentioned and I've built a couple but I never seem to be able to achieve good results. Perhaps I'm just playing it wrong, or maybe the fact every one just wants to play sniper and hide and I'm sitting there with a real short range weapon getting frustrated that I can't do anything so I try to angle my way forward... I don't know.

Any advice or tips would be appreciated!

Also, what are some good brawly mechs? I think I prefer medium due to the speed boost over heavies.

Edited by Biadetic, 07 July 2016 - 03:05 AM.

[Zoeff]

Brawling is only really possible if your team (or at least part of it) is willing to get into brawl range. Once that happens, try cycling in and out of the brawl to cool down or if you feel like you're being focused by 100% of the enemy team.

You are correct that in most public drops, especially solo queue a lot of people prefer to sit back and snipe. I think that's a logical result from a game that punishes you for an early death as there is no respawn mechanic.

[B0oN]

Hui, tall order .
Brawling requires a ton of knowledge :
-Strenghts and weaknesses of your mech
-Strenghts and weaknesses of your enemies mech
-Advantageous points on each and every map to brawl in
-How to torsotwist to avoid losing important parts of your mech
-How to make the enemy go into a place where he is on the backfoot
-Approaches and exiting routes
-Near perfect knowledge of the agility of everyone involved in the brawl
-Very good situational awareness to gauge when/if to make a move and predict enemies and friendlies movement

And that list is only a basic starter, I could go into way more detail, but right now I´m a bit preoccupied with watching Initial D First stage, so sorry for the brevity

Once you start to get a feel for it, all the pieces of the puzzle "tend" to fall into place and basically let you shape brawls in your advantage .
Good luck and good hits .

[PhoenixFire55]

Much depends on the map and on what your team / enemy team does, but the basic thing you do is you look for isolated mechs, preferrably isolated low DPS mechs that you can get close to without taking damage. Depending on the situation you can try and create an opportunity for yourself by circling around the enemy team and either forcing some of the enemy mechs to go after you and come into your brawl range and/or favorable terrain or simply waiting till they'll be busy with your main group up front and striking their rear.

However if two teams just decide to have a shootout there isn't much you can do until either side decides to close the gap. Even if two teams are only ~300m its still a bad idea to brawl em up heading straight into them because thats where they expect enemy mechs to come from, always try to flank/backstab. Always pay attention to UAVs and spotters that can give you away and try to have some sort of cover nearby and retreat route in mind.

There are always little things you should pay attention to, like loadouts of mechs you are about to engage and what those mechs did just before you jump them. For example, if you are about to go wreck face and your opponent is a laserboat, you should pick a moment right after it fired one or two alphas as it'll have high heat % and either won't be able to return fire at all or will overheat shooting you in panic. On the other hand even if you see something like an isolated quad LBX Mauler then it might not be a good idea to go up against it 1 on 1.

If you plan on engaging a small group of enemies you should note which mechs already have damage and where. For example a laservomit Hellbringer with an open left torso will lose all or nearly all of its weapons if you take its torso out, allowing you to practically neutralize it with one good shot and switch to other mechs.

Always twist and turn, perform tiny jumps if possible, never run in a straight line and always run rather then crawl or stand still. Even if you are among your teammates and nobody shoots you or them don't be stationary, you never know when the enemy might get a good shot at you.

There is no universal tip on how to brawl in solo matches, but if you can surprise your opponent you can be effective. Understanding what works and what not only comes with experience and only by trying and failing. It is better to try to do something aggressive and die horribly then just to stand doing nothing and still die horribly after your team dies.

Here is a build for a brawler Griffin. It is surprisingly tanky due to amazing turn rates with a big XL engine and thin side profile, but as any brawler with XL it might not be your average beginner mech but its one of the best brawler mechs in game. Distribute armor between front/rear in a way that suits you most. You can also add/remove ECM, lower engine rating a little and/or add a couple flamers that are really useful on a brawler when used properly. If you don't plan on using ECM then Griffin-3M would be a better choice due to having all missiles in the same torso, which gives its SRMs an amazing accuracy due to very little spread.

Any IS heavy or assault mech you might want to try as brawlers I'd recommend never using XL engines. Clan mechs on the other hand survive a loss of one side which makes them very tanky and very fast brawlers. Among other best possible options are 4xSRM4 Oxide, 6xSRM6 Catapult-A1, AC20+SRMs Atlases for IS and 6xSRM4s on a Jenner-IIC, 5xSRM6s on a Stormcrow, any combination of LBX+SRMs or SRMs+SPLs on TimberWolf and Executioner for clans.

Hope any of this helps.

[Moric Kazimir]

From my newbie and limited experience the only way to get a good brawl in the lower tiers of QP is to just sit on your thumb for the first several minutes of a battle and let the snipers and boats get setup and start shooting at each other. Sometimes (if you're lucky) you can get a few others to flank with you and assault the enemy while they're busy sniping and distracted.

It's turned into a face to face thrown down several times and you don't get their entire team coming down on you because they've taken some damage and don't feel comfortable going toe to toe.

It's fun and workable on some maps, others (especially skirmish on the "ice" maps) - people would rather just peek over a hill for days and snipe/lrm.

Edited by Moric Kazimir, 07 July 2016 - 04:00 AM.

[invernomuto]

Biadetic, on 07 July 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Hey guys how are you? So I've been playing a fair bit recently and getting the hang of certain parts of the game. But I don't understand how to brawl effectively? Can someone explain the basic concept of what the plan of action is? I've seen brawly mechs mentioned and I've built a couple but I never seem to be able to achieve good results. Perhaps I'm just playing it wrong, or maybe the fact every one just wants to play sniper and hide and I'm sitting there with a real short range weapon getting frustrated that I can't do anything so I try to angle my way forward... I don't know. Any advice or tips would be appreciated! Also, what are some good brawly mechs? I think I prefer medium due to the speed boost over heavies.

Brawler mech (medium class):

• Shadowhawk;
  
• Centurion;
  
• Hunckback (SP variant has good structure quirks)
  
• Griffin (2N has ECM and better SRM placement while 3M has structure quirks).

For brawling it depends on the map. On some maps (e.g. Polar) it's very difficult. On other, like HPG, usually I find it easier.
If you want to brawl IMHO a good idea is to try scouting missions in FW: despite their name, usually it's a 4vs4 medium mechs Clan Vs IS brawl, with occasionally some ECM light mechs that try to get to the dropship while the medium mechs engage the defenders.

[Koniving]

Moric Kazimir, on 07 July 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

From my newbie and limited experience the only way to get a good brawl in the lower tiers of QP is to just sit on your thumb for the first several minutes of a battle and let the snipers and boats get setup and start shooting at each other. Sometimes (if you're lucky) you can get a few others to flank with you and assault the enemy while they're busy sniping and distracted.

It's turned into a face to face thrown down several times and you don't get their entire team coming down on you because they've taken some damage and don't feel comfortable going toe to toe.

It's fun and workable on some maps, others (especially skirmish on the "ice" maps) - people would rather just peek over a hill for days and snipe/lrm.

This can be effective; alternatively weaken the enemy from range and once up close really unload into them. Both methods work effectively.

Weakening before brawling up close:
Brawling LRM boat. (More boat than brawl)


Brawler, using ACs as the weakening weapon instead of LRMs.
Wait 30 seconds and check out the score, then skip to 6 minutes.


Brawler (Wingman strategy) followed by Brawler (LRM support strategy). Both use a soften then move in tactic.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I recommend two things:

First, do not attempt to brawl until you join a unit... (And try to pick a unit that has an agressive play style).

-reason:
solo que rarelly has players willing to start a brawl due to the nature of solo que. Many people que solo because they dont want to be told what to do, they want to do their thing solo... While this does not affect all players, it affects enough of the people that initiating a brawl is cumbersome. Brawls tend to happen on their own, but you cant force them to happen, which is why its better to play self-sustaining, until the eventual brawl occurs naturally.

Once you join a unit, your drop mates can help dictate engagements!

Second, do not play a medium brawly mech until you join a unit.
-reason:
As per the first suggestion, if you still wish to attempt a brawl (and havent joined a unit), you need to be in a mech that convince the rest of your team that a brawl is possible. You must be the one who will take charge and motivate the team. Remember, they are solo quers, so they are all considering self preservation.

A medium mech rarelly inspires a charge into enemy fire, and it does last long as the tip of the spear. You honestly need something with more meat.

Now I am not saying medium mechs cant brawl, (in fact, they can be quite good at it), if you still wish to pilot a medium mech, play it safe, and self sustain until the eventual brawl occurs naturally. Dont try to force a brawl, because your just going to run in alone and die a wasteful death.

This of course can change once you join a unit. Your drop mates, as per the first recommendation, can dictate the engagements.

Edit: as an added bonus to joining a unit, there are "usually" members with premium time. It takes two people wih premium time to open up a private lobby.

Private lobbies are great places to learn how to do various tactics; practice makes perfect!

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 07 July 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Koniving]

Biadetic, on 07 July 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Any advice or tips would be appreciated!

Whenever possible: Advanced diagonally. This will help spread damage, especially if the target is using autocannons. Even against lasers, this will challenge their ability to 'track' and focus damage. It won't work against everyone (and funny enough it will never work against a good Dragon pilot), but it will work against most players. Especially if it is pretty clear they are using Armlock. If their arms don't move much if at all, this will always work against that target.

Pick a body part and cripple it. Fast target? Leg. Dangerous target? Spot with the most weapons. Hammer it until it shreds. If unsure, LBX or Streaks will help you find weak points in the enemy's armor to cripple quickly. The more you can cripple and the quicker you can do it, the more you can damage the enemy's morale. Lets face it, to be efficient in this game the player must be calm and collected under fire, if they start to panic they are already dead.

Playing into the above concept, psychological weapons can do amazing things. While the psychological components of the Flamer Stalker no longer exist due to flamer changes, what made this mech so incredibly successful was the effect it had on the enemy pilot. Currently, other weapons can fulfill this effect. An array of AC/2s for example, or a combination of LBX and AC/5s (AC/5 for the focused damage, LBX for the confusion and bonus damage once up close). An endless stream of chainfired small pulse lasers.
For example, take note of the Atlas's reaction upon seeing my Banshee. (Note: Brawling against a light is also depicted here, too; very important watch overall). Skip to 6 minutes.

Flamer psychological effect visual aids:

Spoiler

This Trebuchet (me) won against the Atlas despite being very outmatched. Granted, I had a little help from a commando but our combined weights made 75 tons versus his 100 tons.


This Flamer Heavy Metal is the predecessor to the "Battlegrid Tutorial" build shown above. It simply replaces two medium lasers with two flamers, otherwise it's the exact same build.

I am every single flamer user in those shots. Shots all taken by Lordred.
In the last shot, I'm the Spider in the flames.

All the other videos have been tucked into this spoiler in consideration for those reading the thread.

Spoiler

ASSAULT BRAWLERS.

This brawler build was forced to fight at range in my first try with it...


Though the Flamer Stalker's psychological element may not be in the game anymore due to flamer changes, there is still no denying the tactics involved if you're playing an assault class. You may note they are identical to the "Battlegrid tutorial" video's tactics. In some cases, torso twisting is a good idea but under these circumstances and this mech's shape it was unnecessary.



Another brawler Banshee build; this one is a bit over-complicated to really want to replicate but it tries to toy into the psych effect.


More streamlined brawlers.

Koniving plays seriously (this is ultra rare; only with Pole on my team do I get serious, because I get jumped so far in tiers I have to bring my A game.)

Another A game, using the Battlegrid build (LBx swapped for AC/10) (Sorry despite all the com chatter I did, my mic wasn't set to record in the video. Each of the three lances has their own comms channel, doing their own thing and each has the ability to 'interject' something into another lance's channel; I'm with the assault lance. Lordred is with the light lance. 7 Nation; first MWO tournament [non-world] 4th place medium mech winner is in charge of the 'medium' lance). Skip to 5 mins for the brawl, I easily devastate a heavier enemy but the fact I'm fighting one versus 4 doesn't leave me much room.


A really good, instant example of a good semi-coordinated front line brawl. Notice how "who is in front" keeps alternating. My aim is horrible though because I'm using the arm of a couch for my mousing surface.


Battlegrid build again, brawling heavies, mediums and lights with an assault. Skip to 5 minutes in.

Clan Brawler

Note: After the first battle, skip to 6:48


Now, straying from those...

Simpler Medium Brawlers.

Speed.

Later half of this video. Note this battle is insanely intense as a two versus one under extremely disadvantageous conditions.

Chase cam


Slower medium brawlers.


Skip to 4:50.


Skip to 3 minutes

Okay, I think I completely overkilled this so I'll stop there.

Edited by Koniving, 07 July 2016 - 10:49 AM.

[Fobhopper]

I am primarily a brawler pilot with assaults and heavy mechs. I have posted extensively here helping players grasp the concepts of brawling. Its not an easy role, but its not impossible to master either. But it does require you pay serious attention to how the battlefield changes and how it ebbs and flows. Properly reading the battlefield and having good positioning will get you in a good place to push, or counter an enemy push. You may not win every brawl or every game, but if you ca at least go out 1 for 1, then you have at least done your job.

Here is a video of me brawling in a KGC-000(L) with dual AC20's, 2 SRM6's and a 325 standard engine (with ac20 range and cd), If you can read the terrain and use it to your advantage on most maps, you can get into brawling range and wreak some havoc.



Now I did make a few slight mistakes (more due to overconfidence than anything else) but because of my positioning, and the enemy team being scattered/uncoordinated they couldnt take advantage of my mistakes, and instead I punished them. If you want to know more about brawling, check the link in my signature.

[Flak Kannon]

Very good question.

I won't go into every aspect of brawling, but here are a couple of important points.

InnerSphere STD engine are very useful, if not mandatory.

You really, really need to leverage ALL your armor and torso twist like crazy.. that includes using back armor.

SRM's are kinda key. I brawl best with a srm salvos, Laser alpha's, then manic torso twisting.

Positioning is most important. Because you are dangerous at 270 meters and in.. timing and radar awareness is key. Be patient early.
Save that armor. You have to let it play out a bit..which makes brawling a hard feat for many.

You have to accept that you are no use at 500,700, 1000 meters out. Stay with the biggest slowest mech as general rule, but not an absolute...if that pilot in the Dire is dumb.. don't go all 'lemming' with him. Be smart.

Most off all, learn maps, find choke points, stay with team and push hard when the team pushes.. your asset is your strong punch in close, so stay close.

I liket he Griffin and ShadowHawk, and Wolverine Medium IS JUMP brawlesr ( I sometimes go XL engines on these), I like the QuickDraw, again sometimes XL Engine, but max the JJ number. From there your playstyle determines what chassis works for you. I have had great luck in Highlanders and Orions brawling, where other hate them.


Whatever you do, get that heat right to the edge, but never shut down!

Enjoi

[Spike Brave]

Here are my thoughts:

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah I started off this game in an Atlas, started brawling from the start - it's hard, but it's awesome.
The biggest part - picking the time to move. If you spring from cover too early and outta range, you'll pay for it dearly. Torso twisting is the most important factor and picking which side is the most important.

If running the best Atlas (7S) you need to ensure you are firing that AC20 on the move and twisting right in and once in range for SRMs start twisting left. The SRMs are absolutely devastating on the 7S so you want to shield them if you get to a point where you have to "choose" what to save.

So yeah, it's about knowing the mech and knowing the build and what is more important to save and/or sacrifice.

A Med brawler though you need to be a little more picky with your battles as you can't just commit (and your team will rarely follow you, they will follow an Atlas usually if i push is called). You can close in quick and deal damage and get out quick. So it's a littler easier/forgiving in the sense if you pick a bad spot you can get out of it and also run hotter builds to cool off. It's equally as punishing though as you're a Med, you can get shredded a lot easier.

If you've got a good team you're playing with you can exchange armour much easier so the heat efficiency is less of an issue, but for PUG queue/QP drop. IMO learn with a better heat efficiency first and learn to twist/get as much damage out as you can. Then run hotter as you get used to positioning.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Provided here is a link to a tutorial about brawling.

A medium sized mech with short range fire power goes in against a laser vomit skirmisher.

[image][/image]

Notice how he dodges while he closes the gap, as well as twists to face his opponent only when he is about to fire his Front Loaded Damage (FLD). Since his weapons dont have a burn time (like lasers do), he doesnt have to expose his frontal profile as long. It combines offence with defence in the same motion!

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 07 July 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[Leone]

So, lotta good posts, but since I love brawling, I just felt I hafta chime in.

Second Post, first walkthrough.

Mediums use the same concept, but are, in general, squishier, but faster. Think short range, high refire rate. you want to output more damage, 'n the longer ranged mechs can with less heat.

As for mech choices, Clan side my favourite is the Blackhawk (Nova), whilest others prefer the Ryoken (Stormcrow.) For Inner Sphere mechs, the Centurion, Griffin, Wolverine, Blackjack, Hunchback, and even the Shadowhawk are all solid options.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 07 July 2016 - 10:29 PM.

[Sadistic Savior]

I would define medium brawlers as strikers. Strikers are glass hammers...they alpha enemy brawlers who are distracted by friendly brawlers. IMO, you're not a brawler if you are squishy. Brawlers have heavy armor.

[hordes1ayer2]

Brawling is the art of getting right in the face of someone and just fighting them. The battle is you and them and whoever is directly around you. To brawl you need to be able to dish out dam but still be able to take a lil too. I would say the cataphract 4x and the jager DD are good brawling mech. Send me a message of you need builds

[The Basilisk]

Brawling in MWO is a quite controversial topic, since its mostly just an excuse for ppl calling themselfs brawlers to play shortrange only weapon builds combined with bad battlefield awareness and a, for your teamplay, toxic ammount of "I need to cuddle enemy mechs".

Those characters are to be recognized by their habit of runing at fullspeeds from the start leaving their assaults alone and screeming "push, push, push" over voicecomms while your group forms a lemming train towards the maps hotspot.

Those are brawlers.
You do not want to be one of them.
What you want to be is a short range fire support mech pilot.
This requires lots of battlefield awareness, good instincts for the movement and development of the battle (aka experience) and the knowledge and timing when you have to go in and commit to battle.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

The Basilisk, on 10 July 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Brawling in MWO is a quite controversial topic, since its mostly just an excuse for ppl calling themselfs brawlers to play shortrange only weapon builds combined with bad battlefield awareness and a, for your teamplay, toxic ammount of "I need to cuddle enemy mechs".

Those characters are to be recognized by their habit of runing at fullspeeds from the start leaving their assaults alone and screeming "push, push, push" over voicecomms while your group forms a lemming train towards the maps hotspot.

Those are brawlers.
You do not want to be one of them.
What you want to be is a short range fire support mech pilot.
This requires lots of battlefield awareness, good instincts for the movement and development of the battle (aka experience) and the knowledge and timing when you have to go in and commit to battle.

Being a brawler and knowing how to brawl are two different subjects.

Brawling is a combat maneuver often employed on the battlefield, and knowledge of how it works is very important. It can be used in many forms, it can be used by snipers, people who are trading, when you are holding an objective, when you are attacking an objective, or when you just need a little bit of an advantage in a 1x1 situation.

Brawling is a defensive maneuver where one who is underfire, will torso twist in an attempt to spread incomming damage to multiple location maximizing armor allotment. During this action, the pilot will fire his weapons while they are off cooldown trying to focus damage upon 1 location on the enemy mech. All the while, moving to a favorable position in hopes to gain an advantage over the opponent.

You as an experienced pilot already do this naturally with every fighting style you prefer. But there are many inexperienced pilots who do not understand how to protect themselves from incomming fire. They dont know how to move about the battlefield without getting bombarded by LRMs, nor do they understand the importance of attacking specific locations on enemy mechs.

[Karl the Plumber]

If you need a quick and cheap way to learn brawling, you can still do it in QP. True, it's not as easy as with a unit, but don't let the naysayers turn you away from it immediately. To learn to brawl without blowing all your cadet C-bills:

• Buy a hunchback. Get the 4P if you like lasers, get the 4G if you like guns. The hunchback will help you learn to spread damage by rolling your torso because you'll lose all your firepower if you don't protect your RT.
  
• Get in the QP queue and find the assaults. Stick with one of the big guys for the match and do some up-close knife fighting with any obnoxious lights or fast mediums that try to come leg your whale buddy. Meanwhile, your whale buddy will be keeping the focus from snipers OFF you, which is essential in the learning stage.
  
• Learn to close in only when your whole team is pressing the enemy. It's essential to know the difference between a flanking maneuver you can press and counter and a flanking skirmisher that has cover from his team's zone of fire.
  
• Watch your minimap A LOT. it will help you with points 2 and 3.

Brawling in QP is amazing and fun when you're not the focus of enemy fire and incredibly frustrating when you get isolated. You die immediately, no matter what tonnage you're running. A medium is a great mech to start brawling in because you're quick enough to GTFO if you notice that your position is compromised, and you're tough enough to take the couple of shots in the face you're always going to get in MWO. Pick up a nice, cheap learner mech like the hunchie, figure out which weapons you like best, and stick with your team and you'll pick up the skills you need to brawl. And keep hitting the forums. The community is very helpful.