80 replies to this topic

[RagingOyster]

So, I've had a few people in game the past few days saying that the "game's dead lol" and similar stuff. I thought I'd give the community my $0.02 on why I think the playerbase has shrunk and why the game is most definitely not dead, despite what spiteful people may say.

So if we take a look at Steam charts we can see that, since release on Steam in December 2015 the average number of players has fallen by over 50%, from over 4,000 in December to sitting at right around 1000 this past month (July 2016). Using third-party trackers we can find that there are a significant number of people who own the game (something like 30,000,depending on what service you use to look at the numbers). So the question becomes, why has the number of people actually playing been more than halved over the past few months?

In my humble opinion, the problem isn't PGI, or balance or whatever else the people on the forums will say. IMO the issue is those very same people. If you are playing a game for the first time, and every match you play has at least 1 or 2 people spamming allchat with how bad PGI is, how broken the game is, how ****** the design team's decisions are etc etc, will that be a game you want to play? Similarly, if you're in your trial mech trying to get the hang of combat and the flow of the game and you're bombarded with "You suck" "Trash" "Noob" "Learn the ******* maps" etc etc, is that a game you'd want to keep going with? The answer to both questions is of course, no. The playerbase has shrunk back down to what it was in beta days because I imagine literally 0 new players stay anymore.

I believe that the game would be thriving were it not for the incredible, LoL-level number of toxic members of the community that seem to have no desire in life other than to rant and scream endlessly about the flaws of a game that they inexplicably continue to play. Is PGI perfect? No, obviously. Are they a good dev team? Yes. It's not like we're dealing with EA games "lol you have to buy ammo refills for $2 apiece real money" or something.

tl;dr MWO is not dead, but new players aren't staying because toxic community drives them off. Stop being a **** and the game would be better.

Edit: Looking back, I'd definitely have to agree that in-game most people are great (save the guy that rushes in and blames his death on his "bad team") and it's more the forums where you find the toxicity

Edited by RagingOyster, 07 July 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

I really don't think that's a good explanation at all, although I do agree that a lot of people are being silly and I do agree that exaggerated negativity is harmful in every way and contributes nothing positive what so ever.

The community isn't really that toxic though, and it doesn't really have that much of an effect either.

[Troutmonkey]

The community is one of the few things that actually keep me coming back to this game. Not right now because I'm playing Overwatch, but I will be back at some point.

[Mcgral18]

You'd be wrong
Community is far from Toxic, and the problem is PGI


Their direction, features and occasionally poor announcements make for bad feelings.
What makes you dislike the game more? A Cryhard calling you a Terribad, or the CEO telling you your opinion doesn't matter?

[Carl Vickers]

While this community has its toxicity it is nowhere near as bad as WOW or other online games I have seen and played.

Or perhaps it is more that there is always a certain percentage of toxicity in every game, the bigger the game the more that it appears to be.

[El Bandito]

RagingOyster, on 07 July 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Is PGI perfect? No, obviously. Are they a good dev team? Yes.

I wouldn't rate them as "good". Not by any overall category.

I mostly care about having devs that understand game balance personally, and Russ & co aint them.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2016 - 06:21 PM.

[Danghen Woolf]

RagingOyster, on 07 July 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Spoiler

So, I've had a few people in game the past few days saying that the "game's dead lol" and similar stuff. I thought I'd give the community my $0.02 on why I think the playerbase has shrunk and why the game is most definitely not dead, despite what spiteful people may say.

So if we take a look at Steam charts we can see that, since release on Steam in December 2015 the average number of players has fallen by over 50%, from over 4,000 in December to sitting at right around 1000 this past month (July 2016). Using third-party trackers we can find that there are a significant number of people who own the game (something like 30,000,depending on what service you use to look at the numbers). So the question becomes, why has the number of people actually playing been more than halved over the past few months?

In my humble opinion, the problem isn't PGI, or balance or whatever else the people on the forums will say. IMO the issue is those very same people. If you are playing a game for the first time, and every match you play has at least 1 or 2 people spamming allchat with how bad PGI is, how broken the game is, how ****** the design team's decisions are etc etc, will that be a game you want to play? Similarly, if you're in your trial mech trying to get the hang of combat and the flow of the game and you're bombarded with "You suck" "Trash" "Noob" "Learn the ******* maps" etc etc, is that a game you'd want to keep going with? The answer to both questions is of course, no. The playerbase has shrunk back down to what it was in beta days because I imagine literally 0 new players stay anymore.

I believe that the game would be thriving were it not for the incredible, LoL-level number of toxic members of the community that seem to have no desire in life other than to rant and scream endlessly about the flaws of a game that they inexplicably continue to play. Is PGI perfect? No, obviously. Are they a good dev team? Yes. It's not like we're dealing with EA games "lol you have to buy ammo refills for $2 apiece real money" or something.

tl;dr MWO is not dead, but new players aren't staying because toxic community drives them off. Stop being a **** and the game would be better.

I have been around for a while and only play a few games a month, normally about a week after patch day. I have not seen much chat spamming about PGI, but I do see a lot of loadout shaming. I play stock mechs now simply because I am tired of seeing the same loadouts for every Raven, Thunderbolt, Daishi, and whatever the other favorite 'mechs are. I like variety and no matter how PGI slices the 'mech loads there will be 1 or 2 "competitive" loadouts that you will see. That is one of the main reasons I haven't played FW in almost 4 months and have pretty much given up on ever having a meaningful FW come out of MWO.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but the reason I do not spend as much time as I used to or spend any more money on the game is that the game itself is a hollow shell. There is content but it is all the same. It is like a big old bag of Ranch Doritos, some of the chips have no seasoning, some have WAY too much, and a disappointingly low number are just right. No matter how many are good, bad or otherwise the bag that looked so promising on the shelf is mostly air...

I hope that one day there will be someone on the team who cares for the Battletech universe as much as many of the players and can really drive development towards a complete game. Having 5 flavors of team deathmatch is not what will keep people playing... I think new players just do not see the value in the game and had I not put so much money in I would probably just hang up my cooling vest too...

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Yes, and Pacific Rim ,and disneys star wars mavies the best in universe ...thats Game is the Transformers Michael bay version ,from a MW game , a new Mechassault ,perfect for theYoungster & Kiddy Generation of Steam., with 14 years , im will love this game.with over 50 ,im find many better Games ,with more content and love

the Quality of this Generation is seeing in the Pug Battles since Steam Release

Hope, the enthusiastic Steam Generation have the money ,what give the old BT generation for this Game ,to hold its on live?

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 07 July 2016 - 06:27 PM.

[Impyrium]

Frankly speaking, this community is damn solid and pretty well mannered as online communities go. If it wasn't for said community and its dedication to the franchise, this game wouldn't be doing anywhere near as well as it is.

Negativity is everywhere, in every game. It has been here in MWO since forever too. I really don't see much more now than I have before. Is a lot of it stupid? Yup. Do I get fed up with a lot of negativity being wrongly placed? Aw yes. This community is also very good at that.

But honestly the community has done more good for this game than bad, and is probably one of the reasons it still exists. The core playerbase definitely aren't majority new comers to BattleTech and MechWarrior. Now if Russ had a bit more faith in said core rather than assuming it doesn't know what it's talking about, you'd have a happier forum.

[Belacose]

Though I don't fully agree with all you say, gave you a 'like' just for having the eggs to speak your mind.

Don't believe the negative aura in the forums plays nearly the role you think. Doubt more than a very small percentage of players, particularly new ones, even pay much attention to these forums.

However, the below quote of yours is in fact valid as I've experienced such way way too much in QP drops. IMO it's indeed a horrible virus seriously crimping new players desire to stick around. It's almost to the level of being somewhat shocking. Apparently there's quite a vocal mob especially in game who do not want any new players at all to begin with. Get the feeling that relatively recent rule changes designed to encourage a flux of new players has met with a bit of a rebellion of sorts.

RagingOyster, on 07 July 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Similarly, if you're in your trial mech trying to get the hang of combat and the flow of the game and you're bombarded with "You suck" "Trash" "Noob" "Learn the ******* maps" etc etc, is that a game you'd want to keep going with? The answer to both questions is of course, no.

Edited by Belacose, 07 July 2016 - 06:24 PM.

[Squirg]

I dunno in all the new accounts I made, most new players seems pretty happy go lucky. It's like a bunch of puppies prancing in a field of flowers having a good time. Most new players I've met don't really talk, and if they do, it's very positive. Just my NPE from 4 alt accounts.

[Belacose]

And now your thread is going to be spammed with the same negative vocals you speak of whom will begin to paint the picture back to the way it's supposed to be. You will be overwhelmed as per the usual.

[EgoSlayer]

Frankly, anyone who is using the Steam charts as an indication of MWO dying doesn't understand Steam. Looking at MWO in a vacuum and seeing a 50% drop off since launch seems bad - but the truth is that's how people play games for the most part. Look at 90% of the other games out there that are not called TF2, CoD, Dota, CS, and you'll find that most multi-player games have this type of drop off after launch. People play a few hours and move on, some stick around and play more. It's that simple, most games don't keep gamer's attention for months/years of play.

[Bud Crue]

RagingOyster, on 07 July 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

tl;dr MWO is not dead, but new players aren't staying because toxic community drives them off. Stop being a **** and the game would be better.

I believe that the OP is simply wrong here.

I find that very few people are "toxic" in these forums and even fewer are in game. In two years I don't think I have ever had a discussion in game regarding PGI or the game being "dead" or seen anyone waste time with such. Yes there are folks who are jerks in the manner of "git gud", "you suck", or "so, you built that mech on purpose?" but never have I seen anyone bad mouthing PGI -in game. Ever (I try to play ever day for an hour or so, more on the weekends).

As to the forums, yes there is a lot of rage. But even that is usually focused to the latest stupid decission or broken mechanic that PGI has inserted into the game. -often against the express and near unanimous opinion of the community. Toxic? To the contrary, go up to the Battlemechs or New Player forum rooms and you will see the opposite of toxic. You will see folks of all experience levels helping each other. I see this in game as well, far more often than people being jerks.

No, the community is not driving the community away from the game. The community is one of the few aspects of the game that PGI can't f*** up. Alas, by continuing to do exactly that with CW, and by ignoring what makes this game special (the Battletech IP) PGI, and especially Russ, is doing their best to embitter us and eventually drive us away.

[MadcatX]

I've found the in-game community to be fine, the worst really being the first guy who dies blaming his death on the rest of the team (and 99% of the time it's not due to a push attempt, they just ran off and died) and the "you guys are stupid noobs" at end of match guy.

Otherwise it's rather pleasant in game and it's really only the forums who are salty.

And generally new players don't visit forums, at least not initially.

[Bud Crue]

Belacose, on 07 July 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

And now your thread is going to be spammed with the same negative vocals you speak of whom will begin to paint the picture back to the way it's supposed to be. You will be overwhelmed as per the usual.

History and emprical evidence is a b***h isn't it?

[RagingOyster]

I appreciate the replies. In many ways you are all right. The majority of people are very friendly, but in my own experience there seem to be a very vocal minority that are totally unwilling to even think of anything good to say about the game and would instead prefer to spend their time endlessly ranting about its flaws (admittedly, there are many)

Now, I'm only T3 so take it with a grain of salt but I feel like the game is fairly well-balanced. Obviously you see some mechs way more than you see others, but when you have the ability to target components and aren't beholden to the dice gods to aim then naturally some chassis with easier-to-hit frames will suffer. Likewise when certain weapons and combos are mathematically better, people gravitate towards them. MathWarrior Online will always be a thing.

I also don't fully understand where all the PGI hate comes from? I just hopped back on after about 2 months away, so was there something really bad that happened in that timeframe?

Again thanks for the input

Edit: I also hardly touch CW, so if anyone could enlighten me on the problems therein I'd be grateful

Edited by RagingOyster, 07 July 2016 - 06:59 PM.

[Mcgral18]

RagingOyster, on 07 July 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Edit: I also hardly touch CW, so if anyone could enlighten me on the problems therein I'd be grateful

Largely, this is how the patch launched



Fourteen of those could drop in a match, killing the majority of the team...or all 96 mechs, without difficulty

[Moldur]

I try to keep my negativity out of the game though I am inclined to the occasional bitching, moaning vitriol once frustration takes over. Even then, it's only the general sort. I don't preface every match going "JFC IM UNINSTALLING THIS POS GAME. THANKS PGI FOR MOLESTING MY NOSTALGIC DREAM. PEACE OUT BOIII."

I'm far from owning everything, getting every achievement, taking over the CW map, being the best, etc.

I get to a point where the game stops being fun. I chalk it up to the culmination of minor frustrations and stale gameplay. I get to a point where I feel like there is nothing left to do, despite all those things I just stated. I'll stop playing, come back later when I get the itch again (and there are cool looking new mechs.)

One would expect at least a somewhat appreciable boom in players in the summer months from school being out, and there was. It has already pretty much subsided.

It can be argued that Mechwarrior is a niche franchise, but PGI is doing something wrong if they are barely keeping their neck above the water. Not that it is directly comparable, but look at the new XComs. Yeah, the original XComs could be called a bit of a niche franchise too, but guess what? Firaxis said "yo, we want to make a bomb-*** game that everyone is going to love." and they were very successful. If they had failed and barely had a few thousand players, don't you think people would be sitting there saying "well XCom has always been a niche franchise,"?


MWO is not in an ideal state by sort-of existing. PGI could be doing better, etc. etc. I don't think the forums solely are killing the game. I mean, welcome to online gaming. Everyone spews slurs at each other and wants things there way. What's new? The community has had a fair (perhaps unhealthy) amount of input in MWO, working in mystical and unforseen ways *cough3-4monthsforbalancepatchesthatdonothingcough*, but I think it is mainly PGI's end that is responsible for the state of the population, such as it is.

[The Lost Boy]

The game is hard at first. New people that want to learn it gravitate to a unit thats willing to teach a new player. Those of us vets who havent quit yet are not likely too despite the hyperbole spouted by some. To keep this game alive, units need to FIND the new people and help them along so they dont get discouraged while they get trained up.