30 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Ideally, a 'Mech shouldn't be quirked, especially a good Clan one like the KDK-3! Although this is a Clan 'Mech, I guess it might deserve to receive some quirks because it seems to be born with a case of overenginitis.

Proposed quirks:

• +5% Speed on all CT (around 115 kph with speed tweak perhaps)
  
• Some structure buffs on ST, CT, and select Arms
  
• Some accel deccel
  
• Medium ERPPC Heat Gen on Prime Arms and small general energy heat gen on CT
  
• Some missile cooldown and spread on certain Missile Pods

That's it. The reason for these quirks is to further reinforce the 'Mech's main strength (which is the big engine) so it can hopefully LEAD TEH CHARGE like what's written on the preorder page.

What's your idea?

[cazidin]

The Linebacker certainly won't be lacking in the speed or mobility department. While I certainly wouldn't object to a few, small quirks to further accentuate these strengths I'd rather PGI offer it some substantial offensive quirks. As it is now, its loadout will be severely limited by its lack of tonnage.

[Scout Derek]

-Accel/Deccel

-Torso twist rate (minor)

-Weapon Quirks (minor)

Done. you have your quirked charger now.


afterwards, Balance. apply changes in two months.


(Kodiak needs some form of adjustment, at the least)

[Pariah Devalis]

Any quirks on a mech, I'd rather they limit it to structure/armor and mobility related ones. Weapon quirks lead to bad things, and universally lower TTK instead of increase it, unlike defensive and mobility quirks.

Something like +12 ST +16 CT structure quirks would be fantastic, as would a 30% acceleration and deceleration quirk. This gives it a little durability boost to compensate for its lack of raw firepower, while also accentuating its mobility aspect. I don't actually think a speed quirk is needed on it, personally, though I wouldn't be against it. Idea being it should be mobile enough to zoom into and out of the enemy line, and tough enough to weather the damage that comes from it - all at the cost of reduced firepower potential.

Mobility, Durability, and Firepower. Pick two.

[Sader325]

Thanks to the Kodak PGI has opened the door to the stupidity of the idea that is pre quirking clan mechs before release.

You know what the Linebacker should have for quirks before it released?

None. Oh and the Kodak should lose its quirks because it never needed them in the first place.

[Quaamik]

Personally I think it will be fine without quirks.

Compare it to a Timber Wolf Prime I have had good luck with.
- On the Timber I've mixed and matched omnipods, winding up with 5 energy slots that I'm using
--- 2 c-ERPPCs, one in each arm
--- 2 c- ERMLs in the torsos.
--- 5 engine mounted heat sinks
--- 7 additional heat sinks
--- Mark IV target computer
--- Clan Active Probe
--- 2 jump jets (mainly just help with terrain bumps)
--- speed, with tweak, 87.1 kph
--- heat management 1.25 / 2 - (12 dbl heat sinks total)

Now a possible linebacker build:
--- Linebacker prime, with a B left torso
--- leave the 2 c-ERPPCs in the arms
--- put 2 c-ERSLs, one in each side torso (ditch the missiles)
--- while everyone keeps saying there will be 4 dbl heat sinks in the engine, I doubt that. The XL375 in the Timber has 5, so I expect 5 or 6 in the XL 390 in the linebacker
--- 4 dbl heat sinks added (need to reduce a little armor to get the fourth heat sink)
--- speed, after tweak, of 104.7 kph

It loses the targeting computer, the active probe and 2 JJs. It also loses a bit of range and damage (as well as heat output) on the backup lasers. But it gains speed.

The quirks on the TW are:
-5% torso turn angle
-10% torso tune rate
+2 jump jets
+5% missile velocity (which isn't used in my build)

The TW is good without any quirks. Substitute c-LPLs for the c-ERPPCs if you prefer, its still a good solid mech. It is fast enough to get wherever it needs to be on the battlefield, and has enough range to hit from damn near anywhere. For flanking it works great. Take that Linebacker build and the added speed will only help it.

True, the Linebacker will have less armor and no jump jets. Its shots wont have quite as good an effect without he targeting computer. So t wont be a tier 1 mech like the Timberwolf without quirks. But t will be a solid mech.

If I was to pick and choose quirks to optimize it ( like I said, I don't think they are really needed) I'd go with:
+5% Accel / Decel
+5% structure
+10% PPC velocity
-5% energy heat generation

More than that isn't warranted from the start.

Edited by Quaamik, 10 July 2016 - 07:53 AM.

[Lykaon]

Quaamik, on 10 July 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

--- while everyone keeps saying there will be 4 dbl heat sinks in the engine, I doubt that. The XL375 in the Timber has 5, so I expect 5 or 6 in the XL 390 in the linebacker

The formula for determining the max number of internal heatsinks an engine can hold before any heatsinks need to be placed on the mech's criticals is engine value divided by 25.

So every 25 points of engine value is a heatsink that is contained inside the engine.

A 375 rated engine can hold up to 15 heatsinks.

A 390 rated engine also holds up to 15 heatsinks because 390-375=15 (not 25) so no additional space is alloted for engine heatsinks.

The Timber Wolf does indeed carry 15 double heatsinks. However there is another "rule" of heatsinks.

Engine rating divided by 25 With a max value of 10 are "true" double heatsinks. Any remaining heatsinks have a lower efficiency (1.4 value instead of 2.0) So a mech with a 375 engine has 10 true doubles and engine space for 5 less efficient "off critical" doubles. If this mech were to add one more heatsink it would need to be aloted critical space and it would also be a lesser efficiency double.

[Quaamik]

Still 5 "off critical" heat sinks, not 4 as people have been saying.

Not sure how they are coming up with "14 double" listed in the pre order. By the figures you listed, it should have 15 engine heat sinks on a 390 engine. Did they code it differently? Did they screw the specs in the pre-order listing? Or s it that it comes with 14 and you could still add one in the engine to save critical space?

If in fact its that last, then the mech is going to run hot. Especially if you use the dual c-ERPPCs. Not unbearably hot, but probably enough to make a consideration to going to 2 c-ERLLs instead if you want a long range build.

[Karmen Baric]

How about 50% decrease in weapons tonnage, so it would effectively have 34 tons of usable podspace.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Unless this thing has Endo its pretty much DOA for me. Will have the "Thor" effect. Too much engine and fixed JJ's not enough free pod space. Like pretty much ALL the clan mechs they've dropped lately.

[FupDup]

Quaamik, on 10 July 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Still 5 "off critical" heat sinks, not 4 as people have been saying.

Not sure how they are coming up with "14 double" listed in the pre order. By the figures you listed, it should have 15 engine heat sinks on a 390 engine. Did they code it differently? Did they screw the specs in the pre-order listing? Or s it that it comes with 14 and you could still add one in the engine to save critical space?

If in fact its that last, then the mech is going to run hot. Especially if you use the dual c-ERPPCs. Not unbearably hot, but probably enough to make a consideration to going to 2 c-ERLLs instead if you want a long range build.

It's based off of the Tabletop base configuration.

http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/4522.pdf

Not all Omnimechs come with their engines fully stocked with DHS. Look at the Stormcrow and Ice Ferret, for example. Ferret comes with 2/4 and Crow comes with 0/3.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Lykaon, on 10 July 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

The formula for determining the max number of internal heatsinks an engine can hold before any heatsinks need to be placed on the mech's criticals is engine value divided by 25.

So every 25 points of engine value is a heatsink that is contained inside the engine.

A 375 rated engine can hold up to 15 heatsinks.

A 390 rated engine also holds up to 15 heatsinks because 390-375=15 (not 25) so no additional space is alloted for engine heatsinks.

The Timber Wolf does indeed carry 15 double heatsinks. However there is another "rule" of heatsinks.

Engine rating divided by 25 With a max value of 10 are "true" double heatsinks. Any remaining heatsinks have a lower efficiency (1.4 value instead of 2.0) So a mech with a 375 engine has 10 true doubles and engine space for 5 less efficient "off critical" doubles. If this mech were to add one more heatsink it would need to be aloted critical space and it would also be a lesser efficiency double.

I thought those "off critical" doubles also counted as 2.0 double heatsinks as well?

[FupDup]

xXBagheeraXx, on 10 July 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Unless this thing has Endo its pretty much DOA for me. Will have the "Thor" effect. Too much engine and fixed JJ's not enough free pod space. Like pretty much ALL the clan mechs they've dropped lately.

It has both Endo and FF, but even then its engine is way too big.



It's quite literally a fat Adder with 4 free DHS.


I might eventually update this old spreadsheet with critical slot allocations...

And it looks like I wrote in the wrong engine, supposed to be 390.

Edited by FupDup, 10 July 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

16 tons? OH HELL NAW....

Thanks fup. Not even for Cbills....

[FupDup]

xXBagheeraXx, on 10 July 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

16 tons? OH HELL NAW....

Thanks fup. Not even for Cbills....

Well, if you count the 4 hardwired DHS, it could count as about 20 tons...which is still terrible.

[ScarecrowES]

Quaamik, on 10 July 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Still 5 "off critical" heat sinks, not 4 as people have been saying.

Not sure how they are coming up with "14 double" listed in the pre order. By the figures you listed, it should have 15 engine heat sinks on a 390 engine. Did they code it differently? Did they screw the specs in the pre-order listing? Or s it that it comes with 14 and you could still add one in the engine to save critical space?

The reason the Linebacker has 4 sinks in the engine is because it did in TT. And the reason those 4 are locked and you cannot add more is because of the construction rules PGI has set for omnimechs. Ideally, you'd be able to add an extra DHS to the engine, but PGI's system won't allow it - so you'll be stuck with the stock 4 in MWO.

FupDup, on 10 July 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well, if you count the 4 hardwired DHS, it could count as about 20 tons...which is still terrible.

17.5 tons with nearly max armor. I don't think you can even put an extra ton and a half armor on it, even if you'd want to. So 21.5 tons. Also, your hardpoints are a little off.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 10 July 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

FupDup, on 10 July 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well, if you count the 4 hardwired DHS, it could count as about 20 tons...which is still terrible.

Poor PGI...spending all that time and effort making very nice looking poop clan mechs.

INB4 all the viper/huntsman/Linebacker sucks, plz buff and nerf Timberwolf/stormcrow threads.

[FupDup]

ScarecrowES, on 10 July 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

The reason the Linebacker has 4 sinks in the engine is because it did in TT. And the reason those 4 are locked and you cannot add more is because of the construction rules PGI has set for omnimechs. Ideally, you'd be able to add an extra DHS to the engine, but PGI's system won't allow it - so you'll be stuck with the stock 4 in MWO.



17.5 tons with nearly max armor. I don't think you can even put an extra ton and a half armor on it, even if you'd want to. So 21.5 tons.

I just made the mech in SSW. I get 16.5 tons with exactly 100.0% armor (no wasted armor points apparently). Most people would probably try to strip off 0.5 tons to get a nice and round 17.

I really need to update that spreadsheet...

[xXBagheeraXx]

I cant even get SSW to work on windows 10 :/ unless its been updated while I wasnt looking.

[GreenHell]

Quaamik, on 10 July 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Still 5 "off critical" heat sinks, not 4 as people have been saying.

Not sure how they are coming up with "14 double" listed in the pre order. By the figures you listed, it should have 15 engine heat sinks on a 390 engine. Did they code it differently? Did they screw the specs in the pre-order listing? Or s it that it comes with 14 and you could still add one in the engine to save critical space?

It comes with 4 loaded in the engine. "I think" you can add one more if you like. Don't quote me on it though...

-edit- nvm ninja'd

#bagheera - My SSW works fine (and always has) on win10. You got java 8?

Edited by GreenHell, 10 July 2016 - 10:59 AM.