14 replies to this topic

[_____]

In theory having access to the high ground and being able to shoot down is an advantage. But in practice having the platform there tends to split the team up between those who like the top (due to maybe high mounted weapons) and those who like the bottom due to not having high mounted weapons or they may like the extra cover from LRMs below. If the bottom is attacked, typically the guys on the top fails to support those on the bottom.

I think one thing can be done is to make the gaps in the platform larger so that high ground on the platform is not necessarily such an apparent advantage. This will encourage mechs on the Platform side team to relocate and support the other half of the team if needed, since it's no longer such a perceived advantage to hold the top. Also it allows mechs with lower mounted weapons to shoot either up or under through the gaps.

[Lily from animove]

in domination the team starting in the east has clearly the time advantage, also it does not have to come over a chokepoint like the ones starting in the south. it'sindeed a bit biased

[DivBy0]

Tina Benoit say in a dev drop some month ago, that they know that there is a problem and they work on it. But I have seen no change since. I would love to see the winrates for Dom on this map (and on Alpine Peaks).

[PhoenixFire55]

BlackhawkSC, on 11 July 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

In theory having access to the high ground and being able to shoot down is an advantage. But in practice having the platform there tends to split the team up between those who like the top (due to maybe high mounted weapons) and those who like the bottom due to not having high mounted weapons or they may like the extra cover from LRMs below. If the bottom is attacked, typically the guys on the top fails to support those on the bottom.

Stupidity have nothing to do with map balance tho.

Crimson isn't balanced, but this disbalance doesn't give either side an undisputable advantage. When Crimson was in rotation for competitive matches in MRBC the platform wasn't used at all. Map is much bigger than that and the fact that lemmings do only what lemmings do shouldn't even be considered when balancing anything.

[Lily from animove]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 July 2016 - 05:00 AM, said:

Stupidity have nothing to do with map balance tho.

Crimson isn't balanced, but this disbalance doesn't give either side an undisputable advantage. When Crimson was in rotation for competitive matches in MRBC the platform wasn't used at all. Map is much bigger than that and the fact that lemmings do only what lemmings do shouldn't even be considered when balancing anything.

but in domination the platform is a forced location.

[PhoenixFire55]

Lily from animove, on 12 July 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

but in domination the platform is a forced location.

You know you don't even have to stand inside the circle to prevent the enemy from winning it, right?
A single ERLL Raven trolling mechs on the platform / below the platform from the island is enough to prevent the cap win ...

[Lily from animove]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 July 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

You know you don't even have to stand inside the circle to prevent the enemy from winning it, right?
A single ERLL Raven trolling mechs on the platform / below the platform from the island is enough to prevent the cap win ...

if you wanna rely on that single raven not derping this.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 July 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Lily from animove, on 12 July 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

if you wanna rely on that single raven not derping this.

As I already said, stupidity has nothing to do with map balance.

[Lily from animove]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 July 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

As I already said, stupidity has nothing to do with map balance.

thats not stupidity, thats matchmakign, you cannot rely in a randomised matchup who does what, given you even have proper chassis and loadouts available. it were different if we could choose emchs after knowing the map. But generally the one side has an advantage as it can cmap an harder accessable area easier thats also the mission location.

[PhoenixFire55]

Lily from animove, on 12 July 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

thats not stupidity, thats matchmakign, you cannot rely in a randomised matchup who does what, given you even have proper chassis and loadouts available. it were different if we could choose emchs after knowing the map. But generally the one side has an advantage as it can cmap an harder accessable area easier thats also the mission location.

Blah blah blah ...

Matchmaker, loadouts, your teammates and even yourself has nothing to do with map balancing. You can camp anywhere you want. Camping on top of the ramp doesn't give you any advantage unless the other team is stupid. Being on top creates chokepoints for the team trying to get on top, same chokepoints you see on most maps, and nobody forces you to go through them, even in domination mode you can safely sit down below while staying in the circle.

Crimson is a disbalanced map which creates balanced gameplay. You win as many matches from up top as from down below.

[Alienized]

map itself is just bad. you could delete half the map and just leave platform there.

[_____]

I don't think maps should be balanced based on how it's played competitively. First of all public queue with random players is the meat and potatoes of MWO. This means players of all skill and experience levels. Every single pug team will have players that play poorly and make bad decisions. But the team that has fewer opportunities to f*** up often ends up ahead.

Second, comp teams will make a map work for them even if their side is the supposed bad side in PUG. Take Viridian for example, the bad side in PUG is the side that doesn't have quick access to the two central hills. But in high level comp, there are good strats that nullifies that advantage. If a map cannot be made to be balanced, it will simply not be used for comp by league admins.

Furthermore, if you take the idea of making the gaps wider, and if no one in comp uses the platform anyway, then it makes an improvement for puggers and has zero impact on comp. That's a net positive.

Finally, being closer to the domination circle (sounds kinda S&M-y...) really has no long lasting impact because someone will always be able to shoot something inside that circle and stop the countdown.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 15 July 2016 - 05:32 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

map design is not responsible for dump players who got the better spawn and yet choose to go bottom of platform to get shot at

what needs to be changed is for both team to get equal access to the top platform

[_____]

I guess you didn't actually read what I wrote. In fact bottom ends up being better typically for that team. Neither top nor bottom is inherently worse, it's the simple fact that the team splits between top and bottom that makes it bad.

[Ten Penny]

A topic that has been up for a year and this map is still a problem for domination. One side gets cover, quick access to the cap point, and a defensive fight. While the other has to crossed open ground, cap from an exposed side, and gets split up trying to cover both platform and tunnel.

Maybe just remove it from rotation for domination.