106 replies to this topic

[Ryoken]

Jaspbo1, on 13 July 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Coolio, shame the S variants don't come with custom geo anymore, because the pattern isn't all that great, it's resting on 30% C-Bill boost.

Just saying. People would take roll cages (Not covering the cockpit) over nothing.
I mean, look at the S Urbie, a work of beauty.

There are two problems with custom geo that rightfully made PGI stop the use because the vast majority of players asked for stopping it:
1) Custom geo results in more workload for camo/parade pattern generation so ironically paying players lost the ability to individualize their mechs with camo options. Just ask the Invasion I & II owners how they enjoy beeing stuck with only one pattern and only two color channels.
2) Custom geo was not optional so in case you want the C-bill boost but dislike the custom geo, you were in a bad situation. In some cases the custom geo even blocked cockpit sight so paying customers got a geo they might not favor over the normal geo, got no camo options and got a sight penalty.

So you might understand why most people are more happy without custom geo but full camo options and cockpit sight.

Never the less, optional custom geo that can be purchased by MC might some day added as it has been announced here and there during MWO history.

Edited by Ryoken, 14 July 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[Aylek]

A combination of cERSL, cFlamers and CMGs doesn't sound too shabby on a chassis this mobile. When does this thing come out for CBills?

[pacifica812]

Machine guns ... sure, missiles ... why not, energy weapons with no room for heatsinks to back them up ... no way. Too hot for my taste.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

It's a 40-tonner that's going to be quite fragile thanks to lack of structure quirks, but boy, will it boat those small lasers like a champ. I'm probably going to roll with 6 small pulses and an SRM4+1t ammo on the Medusa, since that pretty much maximizes the alpha in a CQ situation. Backstabby McBackstab.

[Wolf Clearwater]

3x SRM4 & 3x SPL should pack a nasty punch.

Lots of good things you can do with this baby. Some, you can find out in a few days....
50% ER PPC velocity.

1453 R, on 14 July 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

The Viper has thirty klicks and, generally, 4+ hardpoints on the Pixhawk. Seriously, people. Seriously. A ‘Mech doesn’t have to be 85% gun to be worth anything in this game. Provided it has non-disastrous hitboxes in the final pass, the Viper could make for a surprisingly effective striker/skirmisher, with butt-tons of lightweight lasers backed by SRMs, low-heat machine guns, or possibly more lasers.

Exactly this.

[AngrySpartan]

Mobility quirks are nice, but did the person responsible for them accidentally forget that Viper is a LEGO-mech? What's the point of having different mobility quirks on different CT's? we got the same approach with Adder in past and with MDD at the moment, it will end up exactly the same way-players will pick up the most useful CT and dump the rest of them. As usual logic behind quirking make little sense.

[Luscious Dan]

Really curious to see which omnipods those quirks are coming from. It's odd to see such a big difference in accel/decel quirks, though it seems like the fewer energy hardpoints in the side torsos, the more agility quirks you get. So maybe that's where most of them are coming from.

[Gannycus]

AngrySpartan, on 14 July 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Mobility quirks are nice, but did the person responsible for them accidentally forget that Viper is a LEGO-mech? What's the point of having different mobility quirks on different CT's? we got the same approach with Adder in past and with MDD at the moment, it will end up exactly the same way-players will pick up the most useful CT and dump the rest of them. As usual logic behind quirking make little sense.

I think mobility quirks are splitted beetween CT and side torsos depending from the number of weapon hardpoints. We'll see.

[Luscious Dan]

Wolf Clearwater, on 14 July 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

3x SRM4 & 3x SPL should pack a nasty punch.

Lots of good things you can do with this baby. Some, you can find out in a few days....
50% ER PPC velocity.


Exactly this.

+50% ER PPC velocity on a mech that barely has podspace for any support weapons (or heat sinks). Shadow Cat will still likely be the better PPC sniper.

[AngrySpartan]

Gannycus, on 14 July 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

I think mobility quirks are splitted beetween CT and side torsos depending from the number of weapon hardpoints. We'll see.

Would have explained it, though IMHO it's even worse. Distributing common chassis quirks based on the number and type of hardpoints brings a lot of min-maxing and there always will be a loopholes.

We've been through that before and there was whole PTS session using this approach (right before requirking last autumn).
Should wait for the omnipods overview though.

[Dee Eight]

Luscious Dan, on 14 July 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

+50% ER PPC velocity on a mech that barely has podspace for any support weapons (or heat sinks). Shadow Cat will still likely be the better PPC sniper.

They don't quirk for meta builders... they quirk for the weapons load that goes with the LORE loadouts of the variant. They DID however make a mistake... the mech is supposed to have 8.75 tons of pod space and Configuration C and Prime fully utilize them (the others are a quarter ton short). The prime is supposed to be a single MG with a full ton of ammo, and the C is supposed to be 5 MGs.

[Blind Baku]

Can I trade my absolutely garbage, fail hard, you could have done something great here PGI... but you didn't... Phoenix Hawk package for this one... please? This actually has quirks that make sense, have synergy to the builds and are enough to carry a bad mech (hard points here at least look good), if I had the $20 to spare, I'd possible throw some money at it, even after being burned so hard from a mech that should have filled a similar role (IMO). Rant rant rant, salt salt salt...

That aside, yeah most of these actually look pretty nice.

[Jaspbo1]

Ryoken, on 14 July 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

There are two problems with custom geo that rightfully made PGI stop the use because the vast majority of players asked for stopping it:
1) Custom geo results in more workload for camo/parade pattern generation so ironically paying players lost the ability to individualize their mechs with camo options. Just ask the Invasion I & II owners how they enjoy beeing stuck with only one pattern and only two color channels.
2) Custom geo was not optional so in case you want the C-bill boost but dislike the custom geo, you were in a bad situation. In some cases the custom geo even blocked cockpit sight so paying customers got a geo they might not favor over the normal geo, got no camo options and got a sight penalty.
So you might understand why most people are more happy without custom geo but full camo options and cockpit sight.
Never the less, optional custom geo that can be purchased by MC might some day added as it has been announced here and there during MWO history.

But it really made those 'mechs far more unique, the clan 'mechs were more curvy and more inkeeping to their original Tro Artwork (Some liked the Gargy, some didn't, I'm glad the ugly geezer got an ugly special variant) the Phoenix 'mechs got that extra armour on certain parts making them look more maintained and cool, resistance was uninspired on the first wave, but the second wave gave them that battered IS workhorse look. The Urbanmech looked like an armoured trashcan of doom...Then the IIC pack and...Nothing. Say what you want about the geo but it did give you more for the price you were paying. I also doubt getting alt geometry as a buyable option at this rate, they've stopped them for 'mech packs and I doubt they would make different small options for different 'mechs at this point.

[Luscious Dan]

@Dee Eight

That statement doesn't really make sense. Of course they quirk for the meta, the relative strength of the chassis is the whole point of quirks. The nature of those quirks can be general or specific to a certain weapon type (often to encourage you to keep a stock weapon) but ultimately the goal of quirks has always been to bring mechs up to a playable level.

If you said that PGI sometimes doesn't understand the meta, or misses the mark on their quirks (look no further than KDK-1 vs KDK-3), you'd be right.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 14 July 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[-Skyrider-]

Rip viper, no structure quirks

[Ryoken]

Jaspbo1, on 14 July 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

But it really made those 'mechs far more unique, the clan 'mechs were more curvy and more inkeeping to their original Tro Artwork (Some liked the Gargy, some didn't, I'm glad the ugly geezer got an ugly special variant) the Phoenix 'mechs got that extra armour on certain parts making them look more maintained and cool, resistance was uninspired on the first wave, but the second wave gave them that battered IS workhorse look. The Urbanmech looked like an armoured trashcan of doom...Then the IIC pack and...Nothing. Say what you want about the geo but it did give you more for the price you were paying. I also doubt getting alt geometry as a buyable option at this rate, they've stopped them for 'mech packs and I doubt they would make different small options for different 'mechs at this point.

I do not disagree on the point that the more curvy legs that stayed closer to the original artwork do look better to me as well.

But I do disagree that those legs should be reserved only for the custom geo mechs. In fact I want those curvy legs for every wave I mech for every player. If they so desire to...

And I also disagree that I feel like a special snowflake when playing an Invasion I mech with the exact same pattern like all the other Invasion I mechs. It's more a lookalike contest in boring racing stripes or track suit, while at the same time preventing the invasion I&II mechs to feature unit/clan/house patterns.

If you want to feel like a special snowflake then you are better off with the ability to fully individualize your mechs pattern & colors.

And unlike you the majority of paying players did not feel that they get more for the price they were paying because they only got "no camo option" and in some cases "unwanted/sight hindering geo".

So for your case I think really optional custom geo for MC is the right way to go without unintentionally punishing paying players. And I mean, why not? A bolt on cage or carbon-fibre plate does not need to get paint on it, neither does it need a hit box. It could be a purely visual object on top of the mechs standard geo on which the camo patterns and colors still get applied. So you would be good as long as you do not want camo options for the bolt on cage or carbon-fibre plate.

Edited by Ryoken, 14 July 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[Luscious Dan]

From a texturing perspective, the easy out is to do the clan wave 3 style, where most of the alt geo was just metallic black segments layered on top of the existing mech. It can definitely look good when done right, and saves them from doing a bunch of extra texture work for each of the camo patterns. That might be the path forward if they wanted to add the special geo similar to the new decal system... but at the same time, I think Russ has mentioned the playerbase doesn't respond to custom geo the same way we have been losing our collective minds over decals. So it might never be a profitable use of dev time.

[Deus ex Inferus]

First, Jaspbo1 is actually in the closet about the viper and he really loves new design. Second, WHAT THE DUCK IS THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS THAT PGI USES TO DETERMINE QUIRKS??? SERIOUSLY. PGI, GET THAT GUY TO REHAB. This is how I imagine it. "What quirks can we give this new mech that won't get the whiny people crying OP plez nerf?" "I know! Let's make some slightly less maneuverable!" "Brilliant! Ship it!" [Does line of blow off dead h00k4r$ @$$]

Edited by Deus ex Inferus, 14 July 2016 - 10:43 PM.

[Desintegrator]

Oh no PGI !

Why do you update Viridian Bog ??

You have just destroyed Frozen City and now Viridian will be the next map which is unplayable !!

Oh man, seems the amount of players of MWO will not increase with that...

[Steel Raven]

Desintegrator, on 14 July 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

Oh no PGI !

Why do you update Viridian Bog ??

Because you always have one person on every drop that complained about the Bog, I'm a Viridian fan myself but but many don't like how almost every battle is decided by one of two chock points of the map (because no one takes the gulch, it's a death trap)

Desintegrator, on 14 July 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

You have just destroyed Frozen City and now Viridian will be the next map which is unplayable !!

I know I'm the minority but I F***'N HATED the old Frozen City map and I'm glad it's gone. I guess it just goes to show you that you can't please everyone.