53 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

Idealsuspect, on 13 July 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

http://imgur.com/bP0PLEQ

I repeat " The problem with PGI its even with square buildings, collisions meshs are bigger not 5 pixels but 50 and well for the "best esport game in tha world" it should be only 1 pixel bigger. "

That doesn't look like a square corner, it seems to be beveled. Bevels are the type of information that gets lost when poorly optimising collida. =P

[Lily from animove]

Idealsuspect, on 13 July 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

Nice post
The problem with PGI its even with square buildings, collisions meshs are bigger not 5 pixels but 50 and well for the "best esport game in tha world" it should be only 1 pixel bigger.

this HPG in the lower part, those columns have like 50 pxel wider walls than they are lookign like -.-

And alos soem of the rocks in the calderas outer ring.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 July 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

make sure your FOV matches your screen resolution and shape.

1280x720, 1600x900, 1920x1080 = 79

this makes what you see match the hit boxes and hit reg better. AT least for me.

[Tarogato]

Chuck Jager, on 13 July 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

make sure your FOV matches your screen resolution and shape.

1280x720, 1600x900, 1920x1080 = 79

this makes what you see match the hit boxes and hit reg better. AT least for me.

That has literally nothing to do with hitboxes or hitreg. Yay confirmation bias. =P

[Chuck Jager]

Tarogato, on 13 July 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

That has literally nothing to do with hitboxes or hitreg. Yay confirmation bias. =P

what you see and how the games translates the fov visually is not always equal to what the servers see thus this makes a difference in how you hit stuff. Yes the actual boxes do not change, I pretty much assumed folks would understand this, but my bad.

[Lily from animove]

Chuck Jager, on 13 July 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

what you see and how the games translates the fov visually is not always equal to what the servers see thus this makes a difference in how you hit stuff. Yes the actual boxes do not change, I pretty much assumed folks would understand this, but my bad.

thats still not what it is about, its about huge extrahitboxes.

and that is annoying as F espeially since these spots are pretty inconsitent and you can't say here it is, and there not.






similar walls, totally different hitboxes. and no FOV thingy involved into this.


so when your opponent walks along there down, and you have full range shown, but suddenly wooosh 80% of yoru laserfire ends up in a wall when tracking him.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 July 2016 - 11:47 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

thats still not what it is about, its about huge extrahitboxes.

and that is annoying as F espeially since these spots are pretty inconsitent and you can't say here it is, and there not.






similar walls, totally different hitboxes. and no FOV thingy involved into this.


so when your opponent walks along there down, and you have full range shown, but suddenly wooosh 80% of yoru laserfire ends up in a wall when tracking him.

I was actually commenting on a comment, sorry if it got lost.

I pretty much balance this out with the fact that you can shoot through edges walls with 1 ml and when you see red you can then alpha. So, I take the shooting through as the balance to being blocked.

Mostly what I have seen is edges on solid objects being to wide or not blocking. I do think there are some objects that are removed when you adjust graphics settings down, but I thought this was a while back so I do not remember what and why. It was done to eliminate clutter on potatoes, but I thought this was corrected.

[Lily from animove]

Chuck Jager, on 13 July 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

I was actually commenting on a comment, sorry if it got lost.

I pretty much balance this out with the fact that you can shoot through edges walls with 1 ml and when you see red you can then alpha. So, I take the shooting through as the balance to being blocked.

Mostly what I have seen is edges on solid objects being to wide or not blocking. I do think there are some objects that are removed when you adjust graphics settings down, but I thought this was a while back so I do not remember what and why. It was done to eliminate clutter on potatoes, but I thought this was corrected.

no becaue no mechwarrior naturally shoots through closed terrian, thatdoes in no way "blanace itself out". It's just weird and broken.

[JC Daxion]

Bobzilla, on 12 July 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

HPG was already "fixed" so get used to it.

they have said, they are updating maps that have already been updated.. Every patch for the past 6+ months has had fixes.. Post the issue.. and perhaps it will get fixed in an up coming patch.. the last 2 town halls have been all about polish for the most part,, and the patches proves that its where the focus is.

[Idealsuspect]

Tarogato, on 13 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

That doesn't look like a square corner, it seems to be beveled. Bevels are the type of information that gets lost when poorly optimising collida. =P

Yea because thoses pgi guys didnt do a proper collision mesh work even on a squared shape ...

For a building like this, collision mesh don't need to beveled at same rate just need to have proper size and also a little bevel for fit original mesh..

Maps were design from zero to 100% by only one guy? Ok also we know why the work is only 50% completed.
Now they are 3 maybe they should work some obvious collisions mesh failure


Edit: http://imgur.com/bP0PLEQ bro it is a pure square corner .. Poorly detailled. Collision mesh should just fit the graphical mesh in this case +1 pixel or 2 whatever not 50 lol

Edited by Idealsuspect, 13 July 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[Tarogato]

Idealsuspect, on 13 July 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Edit: http://imgur.com/bP0PLEQ bro it is a pure square corner .. Poorly detailled. Collision mesh should just fit the graphical mesh in this case +1 pixel or 2 whatever not 50 lol

Not a square corner. If you line your mech up flush with the wall, you can see that there's a bevel. I've outlined the borders and added some extra lines for perspective. The yellow bit is the actual hitbox.





In the following image you can see what is the actual culprit, though. The green box that protrudes. The collision mesh is simplified (as many vertices removed as possible) and the algorithm treated the green box as the outer bounds of the asset. However, it didn't include the cyan box, so you can actually shoot through it.

[Aidan]

Like I said, the more complex the collision mesh, the poorer the performance. In Nature, there are always compromises. You can post all the pictures you want, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that PGI will always design for better performance.

[Idealsuspect]

Tarogato, on 13 July 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Not a square corner. If you line your mech up flush with the wall, you can see that there's a bevel. I've outlined the borders and added some extra lines for perspective. The yellow bit is the actual hitbox.

Spoiler

In the following image you can see what is the actual culprit, though. The green box that protrudes. The collision mesh is simplified (as many vertices removed as possible) and the algorithm treated the green box as the outer bounds of the asset. However, it didn't include the cyan box, so you can actually shoot through it.

Spoiler

Yea i see what you mean with bevel in your argue ( isnt a true bevel for me .. ) the problem is that PGI did bad choice by including thoses graphical details INTO the collision hitbox when IMO some have to be outside like the next building in vitric forge F2.



In this game everyshoot count and also waste an alpha strike coze bad collision hitbox its really a shame.
Maybe collision hitboxs is a lots of work and may have to be thinked for each unique building or object but it have to be done.

Aidan, on 13 July 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Like I said, the more complex the collision mesh, the poorer the performance. In Nature, there are always compromises. You can post all the pictures you want, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that PGI will always design for better performance.

Is not about have more complex collision meshs.. is more about have proper collision meshs ...





I guess everybody understand how much work have proper hitbox on a whole map is ..


Ok it's a lot of work but i guess many of us prefer simple shapes but proper hitbox than inverse ( IF pgi want complex models for have a pretty game they can focus details on everything above mechs cockpit sight or under low hardpoints sight)

Edited by Idealsuspect, 14 July 2016 - 02:44 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Idealsuspect, on 14 July 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

Yea i see what you mean with bevel in your argue ( isnt a true bevel for me .. ) the problem is that PGI did bad choice by including thoses graphical details INTO the collision hitbox when IMO some have to be outside like the next building in vitric forge F2.



In this game everyshoot count and also waste an alpha strike coze bad collision hitbox its really a shame.
Maybe collision hitboxs is a lots of work and may have to be thinked for each unique building or object but it have to be done.



Is not about have more complex collision meshs.. is more about have proper collision meshs ...





I guess everybody understand how much work have proper hitbox on a whole map is ..


Ok it's a lot of work but i guess many of us prefer simple shapes but proper hitbox than inverse ( IF pgi want complex models for have a pretty game they can focus details on everything above mechs cockpit sight or under low hardpoints sight)

proper and complex is what goes hand in hand. Tarogato explained that quite well. And then client performance is the issue with this. too complex and the woodne pc crowd will complain and rant.

[Idealsuspect]

Lily from animove, on 14 July 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

proper and complex is what goes hand in hand. Tarogato explained that quite well. And then client performance is the issue with this. too complex and the woodne pc crowd will complain and rant.

You dont understand difference with proper and complex?
Isnt same word also isnt same signification...
And you dont understand my post.

Perfect and complex goes hand in hand yea... Nobody ask perfection to PGI just proper hitbox.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 14 July 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Idealsuspect, on 14 July 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

You dont understand difference with proper and complex?
Isnt same word also isnt same signification...
And you dont understand my post.

Perfect and complex goes hand in hand yea... Nobody ask perfection to PGI just proper hitbox.

you don't undertsand technically, proper, as in more correct to visible does mean more complex. like that or not.

[Idealsuspect]

Lily from animove, on 14 July 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

you don't undertsand technically, proper, as in more correct to visible does mean more complex. like that or not.

No just check my last image and read what i did wrote....dont need more complex hitbox just smaller

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

I have no expertise in designing meshes, but from what I've read about what has been said, I'd prefer simpler meshes that provide a more accurate FPS experience than a prettier game. I'd like to have both if that's possible, but as it was said, there is nothing worse than doing an alphastrike on a mech that has a cherry red CT and having the whole shot being wasted because of a ****** terrain/building model, only to have that mech come out of cover after your shot and then kill you. Ruins the whole experience.

Since posting this, I noticed the hitboxes for the walls at the entrances to the basement of HPG have TERRIBLE invisible hitboxes too. There was a stalker on the outside that I could see half the mech (his left side, my right) and my lasers just hit the wall, only to have him come out of cover and SRM me in the face. Obviously didn't have time to take a screenshot :/

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 14 July 2016 - 05:00 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Idealsuspect, on 14 July 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

No just check my last image and read what i did wrote....dont need more complex hitbox just smaller

saying this clearly shows why you have not undersdtand what tarogato wrote.

if you make it smaller, parts of the first picture he shwoed would be able to shoot through the wall. and thats just the other way around of bad.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 July 2016 - 05:13 AM.

[jjm1]

The buildings are mostly low poly primitive shapes already, half the time they shouldn't even need to use reduced collision hulls for the purposes of laser or projectile ray checks.