30 replies to this topic

[SenInt]

Hello!

I've started to play the MWO resently and started to enjoy it!

During one game I remembered I have this old joystick controller (ST290pro) and started to have this urge to try it out.
After initial testing I started to admire those who could play "competitively" with them.
This made me to ask from myself; could it be possible for having arranged two sides to play together a match with joystick controllers (with legs controlled with the WASD) instead of mouses? And could the both sides agree to try playing with equal handicap with sensitivity of the controller in minimum?

Man! That would be one EPIC meta gaming match! xD

What do YOU folks think about this idea?

Comments and critique for this topic are welcome.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

GL HF.
Im out

[Sader325]

No.

[nehebkau]

nutcase

Edited by nehebkau, 12 July 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[ProfessorD]

I'll help with a bit more context, SenInt.

It's widely believed that basically no players in highly competitive units use joysticks. The notion of using a joystick for MWO is actually fairly widely ridiculed on these and other forums. The basic nature of a joystick makes it harder to achieve precise aim than it is with a mouse, and precise aim matters.

As a result, essentially none of us think there would be anything epic at all about an all-joysticks match. Although I'm trying not to be a jerk about it, I agree with the general sentiment here: Use a mouse.

[SenInt]

ProfessorD, on 12 July 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'll help with a bit more context, SenInt.

It's widely believed that basically no players in highly competitive units use joysticks. The notion of using a joystick for MWO is actually fairly widely ridiculed on these and other forums. The basic nature of a joystick makes it harder to achieve precise aim than it is with a mouse, and precise aim matters.

As a result, essentially none of us think there would be anything epic at all about an all-joysticks match. Although I'm trying not to be a jerk about it, I agree with the general sentiment here: Use a mouse.

No worries, I'm not like some folk who doesn't listen the critique or opinions what has facts to support the claims.

And yes, it is indeed harder to get accurate shots with anything except mouse...

[Moldur]

Use a mouse unless you want to arrange some sim-combat private room. That is actually a fun thought. Joystick only games. I'm sure someone has done that before and can chime in.

PGI optimized MWO for M+K. Not true to mechwarrior, but I can't blame them. Making an f2p game requiring a joystick would've been suicide, unless we're talking about DCS World I guess.

[Chuck Jager]

Joysticks are really good for robot and airplanes, because you got to make the machine move the way it is supposed to.

Players do not like this and it hurts online populations needing every warm body.

The big issue is aiming. Mice always work better, and sometimes translating to mouse for movement makes the object move in ways not really possible.

Mice are just better if you like not gimping yourself and your team.

[Mycrus]

ProfessorD, on 12 July 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'll help with a bit more context, SenInt.

It's widely believed that basically no players in highly competitive units use joysticks. The notion of using a joystick for MWO is actually fairly widely ridiculed on these and other forums. The basic nature of a joystick makes it harder to achieve precise aim than it is with a mouse, and precise aim matters.

As a result, essentially none of us think there would be anything epic at all about an all-joysticks match. Although I'm trying not to be a jerk about it, I agree with the general sentiment here: Use a mouse.

Only because pgi set aiming as a zero order control...

Ergo they made a decision to have this game make joystick support crappy to chase the mouse + keyboard peasants...

[LordNothing]

you really cant use a joystick in this game, as much as i think you should be able to. in the gaming world where instant aiming is a thing, mice will always reign supreme. but there is a reason you will never find one in a fighter jet or even a peice of construction equipment like a backhoe. the reason is that those use control systems and there is no such thing as an instant control system. another thing that uses them is robots. i know ive built a few. and when tell it to point the turret at 30 degrees, it takes a little bit of time for motors to spin up and the thing to align to the desired setpoint, because physics.

[TELEFORCE]

I have often wondered why in real life tanks and fighter jet aircraft joysticks are used for aiming instead of mice, if mice are so great at precise aim.

[AztecD]

I use a joystick for maneuvering and an a mouse for shooting so yea its doable, but the code in this game limits the joystick only option.

[ScarecrowES]

I'll never get why PGI decided to go with the goofy Wii-mote, browser game style of aiming. Mouse-based FPS aiming I could understand... tank-like leg and turret joystick controls I could understand. But chasing your mouse pointer all over the screen? Ick. It's probably the worst thing, mechanically, about MWO.

[Kadreal]

If you are trying to arrange a custom game where everyone only uses joystick, go for it!

If you are asking PGI to implement a mode where all players must use joysticks, this is a terrible idea. The last thing we need is to fragment the already small playerbase.

[Mystere]

Moldur, on 12 July 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

PGI optimized MWO for M+K. Not true to mechwarrior, but I can't blame them. Making an f2p game requiring a joystick would've been suicide, unless we're talking about DCS World I guess.

PGI could at least have spent real effort making joysticks actually work. But they just didn't.

As such, only people who have high-quality devices, know how to configure/modify them accordingly, and are willing to spend time and effort can actually use them.

Edited by Mystere, 12 July 2016 - 04:56 PM.

[Malachy Karrde]

I think peoples problems with joysticks are that they never used them much when they were incredibly popular. Almost all sim type games used them at one time. Then the MMO came out and a lot of players started using mouse and keyboard. Fast forward to the latest generation of PC gamers, and most of them don't know what a joystick is, let alone have the skill to use one properly. When I started playing MWO, I had a hard time getting used to mouse and keyboard, so I used a joystick. I never had any trouble aiming with it. the only reason I eventually learned mouse and keyboard is I started to play on a laptop when I was doing surveillance for my last job. I didn't have room to use the joystick. I still find joysticks to be much easier, but I broke it and haven't had the cash around to replace.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I think your aim will be worse, you'll die more, etc.

However if you're having fun... honestly who gives a flying frack,.

[ProfessorD]

TELEFORCE, on 12 July 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

I have often wondered why in real life tanks and fighter jet aircraft joysticks are used for aiming instead of mice, if mice are so great at precise aim.

It helps a lot that the desk you're moving your mouse around on to aim in MWO probably isn't bouncing around under you as your mech moves. I expect it would be nearly impossible to keep a mouse on a working surface in a moving tank.

[Oscore]

Imagine if someone had a Mech cockpit setup in their home, simulating the entire experience. Complete with hydraulics for cockpit shake!

That'd be awesome to see in an arcade or something.

[LordNothing]

TELEFORCE, on 12 July 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

I have often wondered why in real life tanks and fighter jet aircraft joysticks are used for aiming instead of mice, if mice are so great at precise aim.

mouse is a zeroth order device, great for when you want instant positioning like a mouse pointer. not so great when you want to control something that is not instantaneous. you could spin the wheel on the titanic to your heart's content, but it still took two minutes to rotate the rudder to where you want it, plenty of time to hit an iceberg.

bring this into the world of mechwarrior, you have a 15 ton gauss rifle on an arm. depending on distance from the actuators that gun might have to move a meter or two to traverse its firing arc. if you wanted instant snap to target with zero latency, you would have to grossly violate the laws of physics to do it. you would have to break the speed of light to move 15 tons (or any non zero mass) 2 meters in zero seconds. 2 meters in 2 seconds on the other hand is attainable. im sure if you had to wait 2 seconds for the crosshair to line up to your target, you would probibly not want to use a mouse for that job.

you probibly wouldnt want to use a typical gaming joystick either, those are more for controlling rate of rotation (and this is exactly what it does in mwo). what you want to control is position, or rather elevation and traverse angles, i imagine controlled with k n o b s* or a first order stick (gaming stick is 2nd order). this position would be marked on your hud and another indicator for where the gun is actually pointing. they would never completely converge, probibly enough to hit your target with a bit of jitter as the control algorithms and actuators struggle to hold the setpoint. you can control that setpoint with a mouse for sure but it would not be the instantaneous twitch maneuver that mwo players use.

* i cant say *****? wtf? is pgi racist against nobs you screen tapping hipsters! stop taking away my *****! how does pgi open doors?

Edited by LordNothing, 12 July 2016 - 09:16 PM.