33 replies to this topic

[McMurl]

Ive been a whale for a long time in mechwarrior. Since Clan Invasion wave 1 all the way to now, ive either bought all top tier packs or atleast spent some money on all packs (ive decided to stop spending, but for completely unrelated reasons)

A concern was raised in the forums about how freaking expensive the earlier packs are compared to what we are witnessing now.

I for one am 100% for lowering the prices of the older packs. Despite the fact that ive dumped crap loads of moolah on the packs, i view it as paying a premium towards getting the new shiny thing. Maybe current owners get something out of it, such as skins or color patterns or whatever. Maybe we dont, i dont care. ive spent my money on the prices that were set, im not gonna ***** or moan if they lower the prices. They arent the new shiny things anymore, they are the old, well known and owned by many things.

PGI i highly suggest that you standardize your packs across the board, it might generate more cash as i doubt many, if any, are buying early clan and IS packs.

Now this doesnt mean that you should create heroes for these redone packs before you do change the price model, as i believe, as do many others, that every mech type will get atleast 1 hero variant at some point.

Whether current owners get something or we get nothing at all, you need to redo your price model for earlier mech packs, and this former whale is 100% for it.

[Yellonet]

"I've been a whale since..,
"Whale status: Offline"




Old content is only old for old players.
Anyway, I'd suppose giving certain special offers to long time players, say 2+, 3+, 4+ years. If you've played a number of matches each year, and bought some stuff it would be nice if PGI offered some special prices for these players once in a while.

"3 year veteran day! This week every 3 year veteran get 50% off on all Commando and Mist Lynx variants!"

"2 year veteran day! This week every 2 year veteran get 50% off on all colors in the store!"

It would even be more cool if there were some unique stuff for sale to veterans for a limited once in a while.

[SmoothCriminal]

Pricing should be constant and balanced by value rather than age, no? Just because a TBR has been available for 2 odd years doesn't make it any less good...

[Templar Dane]

SmoothCriminal, on 12 July 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Pricing should be constant and balanced by value rather than age, no? Just because a TBR has been available for 2 odd years doesn't make it any less good...

Yeah but 50 bucks for mechs that have been out for cbills........can't imagine the old packs sell well.

[Bud Crue]

In re this topic, I think the prices ought to be based on realistic value...for example: the top most expensive Medium mastery packs are the Trebuchet, the Griffin, and the Vindicator. Griffin I can understand, but the Vindi and the Treb? Really? An even odder comparison: Treb (the most expensive medium mastery pack) is $30 whereas a Blackjack (the cheapest medium mastery pack) is $20. Huh.

Of course who decides this value? Well, imo PGI ought to be either playing the game consistently to get a realistic understanding of this themselves, or consult with select players or conduct polling to determine where the perceived value is at (like many businesses do).

Since none of that is going to happen I'd be happy with a scheme along the lines of $12, $16, $20, $24 for each class of mechs, with specials and sales for the obviously less than stellar performers (or include bonus mechs for those underachievers). Of course this won't happen either, since PGI is is of the view that all mechs are of equal value in their eyes (heavy queue be damned) and that new mechs are all 20 bucks a pop for basic packs regardless of weight. This then begs the question: if all new mechs are $20 bucks regardless of weight, then why are some older mechs clearly priced with a premium on greater tonnage?

To this I have no answer.

[Wintersdark]

Heres why:

MC pricing of Hero mechs is based purely on tonnage.

MC pricing of regular mechs is based purely on cbill value.

Mastery pack pricing is based on the MC cost of the hero+champ+regular mechs (thus tonnage+cbill+cbill).

Modern mech pack pricing is $20 for 3 base models etc.

There's no logic beyond that.

Definitely they're not going to price based on performance, that'd be stupid. Performance changes all the time.

So, this is one place where "PGI should play their own game" totally does not apply.

Edited by Wintersdark, 12 July 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Wintersdark, on 12 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Definitely they're not going to price based on performance, that'd be stupid. Performance changes all the time.

So, this is one place where "PGI should play their own game" totally does not apply.

So by that rationale performance is irrelevant (or at least should be in your view) for establishing the relative value of the product? Just because a mech is heavier than another it should cost more regardless of performance?

Edit: also note that with newer mechs the extra hero variant (special) is a straight 15 bucks regardless of tonnage. How does that fit into the idea that hero mechs are based purely on tonnage.

I just don't understand the pricing either, but I don't think it makes sense from a product pricing point of view to ignore the actual or perceived value of the product in question, but that is what we do at the moment.

Edited by Bud Crue, 12 July 2016 - 05:51 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

http://mwomercs.com/...hbays-included/

[LordNothing]

since most of the mechs in the back catalog can be purchased with cbills i would avoid giving actual money for those. the old prices for packs, especially the insanely expensive ones are just silly, especially when you can just grind for a week and get 3 of any of those chassis provided you have the bays.

i wouldnt mind seeing some of those repackaged in a more meaningful way to get people to buy those with actual cash. id like to see regular sales on older packs. throw in some new content, patterns, and colors. perhaps bring all the old mech packs into the $20 (extra for the special stuff) model. you could encourage a lot of impulse buys by making old content more approachable than ever.

one idea ive knocked around is faction play packages. each would represent a certain faction, include mechs used by that faction, and that faction's pattern and colors. one major selling point to make it work, is that they would be exempt from the usual mastery rules and could be leveled all the way to master as is without buying additional mechs. this would allow you to buy an entire drop deck that you can level up and use in fp. you can actually have a large number of these packs, one for every faction and merc units. they might also come with lp/rp bonuses so that you can get a boost to the fp grind. im thinking like at a $20-30 price range. they might also have custom geometry.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 July 2016 - 05:56 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Bud Crue, on 12 July 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

So by that rationale performance is irrelevant (or at least should be in your view) for establishing the relative value of the product? Just because a mech is heavier than another it should cost more regardless of performance?

performance must be irrelevant because the prices would be shifting constantly otherwise. As well, how a mech performs differs wildly between tiers, roles, current meta, etc. Trying to price based on performance - pricing based on balance essentially - is wholly unrealistic and would never work out.

Value is a funny thing, a HIGHLY subjective thing.

Pricing isn't really based on tonnage though, MOST things are either flat rate (modern mech packs) or priced based on cbill value (everything else except heroes, which don't have cbill values to use).

Pricing by cbill cost is probably the best way to go, because that's what they're going to be directly compared with, and because you can convert cash to cbills.

That said, mech packs (flat rate) are easily the best value now, and ironically are essentially the best "pricing by performance" they can manage as the target is to have all mechs balanced.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 12 July 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

So by that rationale performance is irrelevant (or at least should be in your view) for establishing the relative value of the product? Just because a mech is heavier than another it should cost more regardless of performance?

Edit: also note that with newer mechs the extra hero variant (special) is a straight 15 bucks regardless of tonnage. How does that fit into the idea that hero mechs are based purely on tonnage.

I just don't understand the pricing either, but I don't think it makes sense from a product pricing point of view to ignore the actual or perceived value of the product in question, but that is what we do at the moment.

There was a time when the Victor and Highlander were the epitome of performance. How good are they now? So was the BoomJager, SplatCat, GaussaPult, etc.

Where are all the above sitting now, performancewise?

THAT is the issue he is pointing out. As Metas shift, so does "performance". So unless PGI implements an algorithm that adjusts prices dynamically based on Meta, how exactly do you propose they implement a performance based pricing?

[davoodoo]

Yellonet, on 12 July 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

"I've been a whale since..,
"Whale status: Offline"




Old content is only old for old players.
Anyway, I'd suppose giving certain special offers to long time players, say 2+, 3+, 4+ years. If you've played a number of matches each year, and bought some stuff it would be nice if PGI offered some special prices for these players once in a while.

"3 year veteran day! This week every 3 year veteran get 50% off on all Commando and Mist Lynx variants!"

"2 year veteran day! This week every 2 year veteran get 50% off on all colors in the store!"

It would even be more cool if there were some unique stuff for sale to veterans for a limited once in a while.

By that logic, baldurs gate 2 should cost 60$, while baldurs gate 2 enhanced edition should also cost 60$
Skyrim 60$ and skyrim remake 60$.

Lets extrapolate it further, wolfenstein 3d 60$, new order with wolfenstein 3d lvls as easter egg 60$. Why isnt starcraft and starcraft 2 both sold at 60$??
If someone started playing games today then these old games are new to him/her right??

Before you start putting ideas do simple thought experiment, bring your idea to most extreme without distorting it, if it sounds ******* stupid then it was ******* stupid to begin with.

Examples.
Absolute equality is ******* ridiculous, i would be equal with ants and elephants and they would equal with each other.
Equal rights for every citizen, sounds reasonable, regardless of my skin color orientation and my ideas i can work and vote.

Apparently all mechs of same weight should be sidegrades and should be equally valuable, yet old mechs cost 55$ or 30$ if you wanted just lights while new mechs cost 20$. Why such price difference.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 July 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

There was a time when the Victor and Highlander were the epitome of performance. How good are they now? So was the BoomJager, SplatCat, GaussaPult, etc.

Where are all the above sitting now, performancewise?

THAT is the issue he is pointing out. As Metas shift, so does "performance". So unless PGI implements an algorithm that adjusts prices dynamically based on Meta, how exactly do you propose they implement a performance based pricing?

I get the issue...
...that subjectivity is exactly why I think pricing could be "improved" if PGI payed their game or at least became familiar enough to have an understanding of the comparative value of their product, so as to be capable of giving each product an appropriate price based on that understanding.

An algorythim is not necessary to understand value or how that perception of value shifts with the meta or other circumstances. Knowledge of what your customers value is. That is why companies use polling and other sources of info to get that understanding. All I suggested was that PGI do the same. By their own pricing of the new mechs, tonnage is irrelevant. Yet not so for old mechs, only older mechs are "valued" based on tonnage as opposed to a flat rate.

Using customer driven price points, would prices shift over time (with the meta)? Sure. PGI has changed prices before, they will undoubtedly do so again.

[Idealsuspect]

They will lower price of old mechs package with all thoses whales status offline, they will have to... Olds whales are retired, smallers are there waiting.

[davoodoo]

LordNothing, on 12 July 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

since most of the mechs in the back catalog can be purchased with cbills i would avoid giving actual money for those. the old prices for packs, especially the insanely expensive ones are just silly, especially when you can just grind for a week and get 3 of any of those chassis provided you have the bays.

I would probably grab old direwhale pack or mauler for 20$.

I would consider hbk IIc and ebj if i hadnt got them already.
Timber wolf might be a good purchase.

Thats pretty much clan and resistance alone based on my personal taste in mechs.

[SmoothCriminal]

Templar Dane, on 12 July 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

Yeah but 50 bucks for mechs that have been out for cbills........can't imagine the old packs sell well.

Yeah, fair enough - if I was PGI (there we go again), I would harmonise all mechs into their current strategy - 20 for 3, 40 for a collector, 15 for reinforcements and 15 for a hero. For everyone. Because otherwise there are some substantial indescrepencies (as pointed out in this thread).

The issue is that doing this would cut across their old pricing model and piss off anyone who bought in at that stage off. so it's lose-lose really. At least in the new way, PGI can incentivise their audience to pre-buy packs (as it is cheaper) and stabilise their revenue stream (because they know they will get $X from each pack released).

So, ultimately, it is in their interests to tempt people in to the pre-orders. Wanna buy a mechpack?

Edited by SmoothCriminal, 12 July 2016 - 06:55 AM.

[davoodoo]

SmoothCriminal, on 12 July 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

The issue is that doing this would cut across their old pricing model and piss off anyone who bought in at that stage off. so it's lose-lose really.

Tell me something, did you bought anything on steam??

I bought for example xcom enemy unknown back in 2012 for a price of 60$, should i be angry that its being sold now for 20$?? should i get refund??

This is how poor argument it is.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 July 2016 - 07:22 AM.

[Wintersdark]

davoodoo, on 12 July 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Tell me something, did you bought anything on steam??

I bought for example xcom enemy unknown back in 2012 for a price of 60$, should i be angry that its being sold now for 20$?? should i get refund??

This is how poor argument it is.

Yeah, I see a lot of that online,and figure it has to be children crying about it. Things go on sale all the time, prices change, and you're never entitled to a refund (although in some instances businesses will account for "but I bought it 3 days before you cut the price in half!" - that's up to them though.)

Welcome to the real world.

I do think PGI should harmonize pricing though, just adapt everything to the current pack model and call it a day. Having to buy, for example, Invasion Wave 1 or Phonenix in the old model is horrible if you don't actually want all the mechs.

[Snowbluff]

SmoothCriminal, on 12 July 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Pricing should be constant and balanced by value rather than age, no? Just because a TBR has been available for 2 odd years doesn't make it any less good...

It's actually been nerfed several times since then.

[Wintersdark]

Bud Crue, on 12 July 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

I get the issue...
...that subjectivity is exactly why I think pricing could be "improved" if PGI payed their game or at least became familiar enough to have an understanding of the comparative value of their product, so as to be capable of giving each product an appropriate price based on that understanding.

An algorythim is not necessary to understand value or how that perception of value shifts with the meta or other circumstances. Knowledge of what your customers value is. That is why companies use polling and other sources of info to get that understanding. All I suggested was that PGI do the same. By their own pricing of the new mechs, tonnage is irrelevant. Yet not so for old mechs, only older mechs are "valued" based on tonnage as opposed to a flat rate.

Using customer driven price points, would prices shift over time (with the meta)? Sure. PGI has changed prices before, they will undoubtedly do so again.

Well, only heroes are priced based on tonnage. Every mech pack is flat rate, though the older style need to be bought in (equally priced) tiers.

The "base" pricing for mechs with real money is translated from cbill value as I said before, and that's really the way they should stay.

That way it's a direct dollar to time-to-get-for-"free" translation .