75 replies to this topic

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

What would this break? How would it hurt the game?

As far as I can see, all it would do would make the Summoner viable. It certainly wouldn't threaten the Timber Wolf's superiority. It also wouldn't it outshine the Hellbringer!

I've been trying to play my Summoner again and ES is all this 'Mech really needs!

[adamts01]

Yeah, that would make it awesome. It can't boat anything so it can only get so good. With it's limited energy hard-points there just aren't any high alpha builds to give it a chance in current meta. Hopefully Ghost Heat 2.0 will let this mech have a niche.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Because the Clans didn't build the Summoner with Endo Steel, only Ferro Armor. :/

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have Endo Steel available on a Summoner, especially since the IS can add Endo or Ferro at it's leisure, but PGI made the design decision to lock a lot of Clan equip.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 14 July 2016 - 02:33 AM.

[El Bandito]

Can't do that unless PGI unlocks everything for all Clan omnis. Otherwise, the entitled cries of Nova pilots, Mad Dog pilots, Hellbringer pilots, Gargoyle pilots, Executioner pilots etc...would be drowning.

Then Omni mechs would be clearly superior to battlemechs and balance takes a hit.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 July 2016 - 02:37 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Can't do that unless PGI unlocks everything for all Clan omnis. Otherwise, the entitled cries of Nova pilots, Mad Dog pilots, Hellbringer pilots, Gargoyle pilots, Executioner pilots etc...would be drowning.

That's not true. There's no slippery slope unless PGI can't control themselves. One change does not necessitate another in all cases and certainly not here!

Besides, PGI already makes exceptions to how 'Mechs and their equipment work all the time via Quirks.

Edit:

Let me ask this:

When PGI releases IS Omnimechs some of them will have locked SHS. Is that reasonable? I'd say not and I would flatly expect them to upgrade those 'Mechs to DHS.

If they don't, what clamor will we hear, then!?

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 14 July 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

The only exception is when they removed the Adder's Flamer as far as I know. I initially accepted it as a good move from PGI but now I kind of regret it because PGI should have made the Flamer something special like +100% Heat or something instead of doing that.

[Bishop Steiner]

http://mwomercs.com/...-or-storm-crow/

http://mwomercs.com/.../page__st__1020

Keep the fight alive, brother

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

The only exception is when they removed the Adder's Flamer as far as I know. I initially accepted it as a good move from PGI but now I kind of regret it because PGI should have made the Flamer something special like +100% Heat or something instead of doing that.

An exception is an exception. I don't propose to make the exception the rule; but it does show precedent.

More to the point, this is a game full of exceptions: Quirks!!!

[El Bandito]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 14 July 2016 - 02:53 AM, said:

Let me ask this:

When PGI releases IS Omnimechs some of them will have locked SHS. Is that reasonable? I'd say not and I would flatly expect them to upgrade those 'Mechs to DHS.

If they don't, what clamor will we hear, then!?

PGI will simply give the SHS IS omnis increased heat loss quirk, just like the Locusts. So instead of asking for unlocked Endo for the Summoner, you should ask for more quirks.

Such as 200% ammo quirk...

Edited by El Bandito, 14 July 2016 - 03:26 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 14 July 2016 - 03:20 AM, said:

An exception is an exception. I don't propose to make the exception the rule; but it does show precedent.

More to the point, this is a game full of exceptions: Quirks!!!

Yeah, it's just the problem of choosing what you wanna keep and and what you wanna change.

Since I don't own a Summoner and am not planning to own it, I better not to say anything about your proposal. Wayyyyyy back then I thought the 'Mech has a good mix of weapons: a "punchy" ERPPC for long range, a low heat LB-10X, and LRMs for support. That kind of loadout is a laughing stock right now, I wish it was not the case.

[Lily from animove]

how should that endosteel work? clans have fixed slots, where do you want to put these slots?

working would be 2 in each arm, 1 in each torso.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

PGI will simply give the SHS IS omnis increased heat loss quirk, just like the Locusts. So instead of asking for unlocked Endo for the Summoner, you should ask for more quirks.

Such as 200% ammo quirk...

I hate the reliance on Quirks; so based on principle, I can't bring myself to do that.

On the other hand, just switching the equipment is technically much simpler. Why bother making new and unnecessary Quirks?

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Lily from animove, on 14 July 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

how should that endosteel work? clans have fixed slots, where do you want to put these slots?

working would be 2 in each arm, 1 in each torso.

No, gotta be able to put UAC20 in the LA. So...

• CT = 1
  
• LT/RT = 2 each
  
• RA = 2

Edited after saw that LBX-20 needs 9 slots. Still a working assignment.

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 14 July 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[El Bandito]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 14 July 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

I hate the reliance on Quirks; so based on principle, I can't bring myself to do that.

On the other hand, just switching the equipment is technically much simpler. Why bother making new and unnecessary Quirks?

Cause it is easier than opening the floodgate. Should PGI consent to your request, then they are basically telling us that they can be buckled, and floodgates will open. Soon enough we will have people begging PGI to have the JJs to be unlocked for omnis.

Note: I am not against opening the Endo/FF as principle, just telling you how it is.

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 14 July 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

No, gotta be able to put UAC20 in the LA. So...

• CT = 1
  
• LT/RT = 2 each
  
• LA/RA = 1 each

Uh huh. Clearly PGI should accommodate your wishes to the letter.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 July 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

I have a better idea..., make mixed weapons/loadouts a meta so 'Mechs like the Summoner are less disadvantaged! And make bigger LRMs useful while you are at it.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 14 July 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

Cause it is easier than opening the floodgate. Should PGI consent to your request, then they are basically telling us that they can be buckled, and floodgates will open. Soon enough we will have people begging PGI to have the JJs to be unlocked for omnis.

They already have buckled to many things before, so that ship has long sailed. Now they just need to use good (better?) judgment about the things they "buckle" to.

Also, some Omnimechs effectively already have unlocked JJs, and they're mostly the best 'Mechs anyway: TBR and DWF come to mind. For them, swapping pods is like mounting or removing JJs

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

Note: I am not against opening the Endo/FF as principle, just telling you how it is.

I know. But it is how we make it. And for the Summoner, this would make it better.

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

Uh huh. Clearly PGI should accommodate your wishes to the letter.

Well, considering that you need to accommodate the stock builds, the LA can't have any more slots used up. Distribute the rest and that's what you get (my edited version, I mean)!

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

I have a better idea..., make mixed weapons/loadouts a meta so 'Mechs like the Summoner are less disadvantaged! And make bigger LRMs useful while you are at it.

I'd like that, but if that were the case, Summoner would be at a disadvantage for lack of tonnage.

[adamts01]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Can't do that unless PGI unlocks everything for all Clan omnis. Otherwise, the entitled cries of Nova pilots, Mad Dog pilots, Hellbringer pilots, Gargoyle pilots, Executioner pilots etc...would be drowning.

Then Omni mechs would be clearly superior to battlemechs and balance takes a hit.

I don't really agree. Nova aside, the only Clan heavies lights and mediums people ever take already have endo/ferro. And the Nova is only an exception because of it's ridiculous amount of energy points.

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

I have a better idea..., make mixed weapons/loadouts a meta so 'Mechs like the Summoner are less disadvantaged! And make bigger LRMs useful while you are at it.

I'm all for mixed loadouts being viable, but the problem is ferro/endo Clan mechs could do the same builds better, as space is rarely a problem on Clan mechs.

[Alistair Winter]

Because then you have to ask why every Clan mech can't get Endo + FF. I think PGI should stick to what little difference there is between battlemechs and omnimechs in this game.

Why can't the Summoner have useful quirks beyond the +5 kph speed bonus? Aren't we a bit past the "Only IS heavies get good quirks" stage?

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Clans refuse to give the Summoner any love because of the shame Nicholai Malthus brought upon it. It was his mech of choice when he was defeated by an IS Freebirth. Then to make matters worse, he violated the trial of possession he lost in because he was a sore loser (Technicality or not).

His actions not only shamed Jade Falcon and himself, but also the Summoner by proxy.

That is why the Summoner can't have nice things.

Ok, clearly not, but it sounds good

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 14 July 2016 - 04:40 AM.

[Bradigus]

Rather than go down that road of endless cycles of nerf it/ buff it, how about we give the tonnage strapped omnimechs more hardpoints?

I'm pretty confident that the Summoner would LOVE to be able to field 6 medium pulse lasers with it's 20-21 free tons. The Ice Ferret too would love to be able to use 4 missile weapons or 6+ energy without having to pick a variant with a CT energy hardpoint slot.

More omnipod options, less breaking the ground rules for the mechs themselves.