75 replies to this topic

[Black Ivan]

Alistair Winter, on 14 July 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

Because then you have to ask why every Clan mech can't get Endo + FF. I think PGI should stick to what little difference there is between battlemechs and omnimechs in this game.

Why can't the Summoner have useful quirks beyond the +5 kph speed bonus? Aren't we a bit past the "Only IS heavies get good quirks" stage?

100% agree on that- The Summoner needs some good Quirk pass to help it being viable again.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Didn't read the whole thread. Simple answer: I know this is a stretch, and PGI does do some things that throw lore right out the door, but ONE THING that PGI does right is maintaining the Endo/Ferro/Standard rules for omnimechs. Not broken, don't fix.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 14 July 2016 - 04:48 AM.

[Baulven]

Technically they aren't right by battletech rules. Almost all mechs were fixed structure and armor wise unless you sent one to a depot for complete refitting which was both insanely expensive and time consuming. The only thing that omnis did was make refitting quicker, and since this game doesn't have a refit timer for when you change a loadout it is completely pointless. The only reason to use omnipods originally was to speed refit and repair times which MWO treats like plague carriers.

[dervishx5]

Or, you know, never introduce the jumpjet version for the Timber Wolf so the Summoner has a niche.

Derpgi

[TKSax]

I will say I always chuckle at threads like this.

A lot of the people in these threads will complain in other threads that PGI does not follow the Battletech lore and this is not really a Battletech based game...

Yet if the answer to why the Summoner does not have Endo-Steel is becuase of the lore, everyone wants it changed in this case...

Edited by TKSax, 14 July 2016 - 05:22 AM.

[Pjwned]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 14 July 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

What would this break? How would it hurt the game?

As far as I can see, all it would do would make the Summoner viable. It certainly wouldn't threaten the Timber Wolf's superiority. It also wouldn't it outshine the Hellbringer!

I've been trying to play my Summoner again and ES is all this 'Mech really needs!

Because it's stupid to pick & choose mechs to bend the rules for, and with the Summoner obviously being an Omnimech it's bound by Omnimech construction rules. If we're going to bend the rules, then it needs to be consistent or else it's crap.

How about instead we make Ferro Fibrous armor not be objectively inferior to Endo Steel structure. Something like allowing more max armor with Ferro Fibrous would be far more interesting (as well as make reasonable sense) and actually promote players choosing FF over ES (or choosing FF locked omnimechs over ES locked omnimechs) instead of this "no ES no pick" mentality that is honestly pretty justified because FF is so bad.

If literally nothing else was an option and upgrades were pretty much left as is and the Summoner were to get at least a small buff, then maybe the Summoner (and the Mad Dog too I guess) could have Endo Steel swapped out with Ferro Fibrous, but that's a really lame way of handling it.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 July 2016 - 05:28 AM.

[dervishx5]

Or, you know, PGI should never have introduced the Timber Wolf S.

Yeah, a helpful comment, but "what's the point of the Summoner then?" was the first thing I said when I was they were including the Timberwolf S variant.

Oh well. The Summoner has always been the "bad guy" mech anyway. MW2 and 3 it was the "evil" mech in the intro videos. The bad guys in Vengeance piloted Summoners. Nicholai Malthus loved his.

PGI must have confused "bad guy" with "bad".

Edited by dervishx5, 14 July 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[Felbombling]

Piloting a Summoner is kind of strange. I get the feeling that enemy Mechs, regardless of weight class, see you and enthusiastically charge you like a piece of easy meat. It is as though every single Mech in the game out-guns or out-maneuvers you... or both.

Russ went on record months ago in a Town Hall that he was going to help the Summoner out with some unique quirks... 2x ammo per ton, etc. Still haven't seen anything on that front.

[Coolant]

Summoner is my favorite mech and ill always support any buffs including Endo steel but it already has structure, weapon and crazy movement quirks. Only if u cant pilot anything but meta mechs should u have a problem. Think outside the box unless the only thing u care about is making urself appear to be a good pilot by only running meta mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

It can't be done because if Russ allowed the Summoner to be decent it would cause the Universe to Implode upon itself and end life as we know it.


And Trump's hair will rise from the abyss like Cthulu's tentacles.

Coolant, on 14 July 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Summoner is my favorite mech and ill always support any buffs including Endo steel but it already has structure, weapon and crazy movement quirks. Only if u cant pilot anything but meta mechs should u have a problem. Think outside the box unless the only thing u care about is making urself appear to be a good pilot by only running meta mechs.

I'd actually like to just be able to run it Super Stock, viably. The way a Summoner is meant to be. And I do run mine bone stock... which means I run out of ammo waaay too soon.

But even with stock armor and before structure buffs, SMN was always good at spreading damage. Just not so great at inflicting it.

[Steve Pryde]

PGI already has broken the rule of locked equipment on omnimechs with the Adder. And if PGI allows the Summoner endosteel, all other omnimechs are must to change it too.

[Navid A1]

This was the position at a time long past:





Silence afterwards.

[Cy Mitchell]

The endo-steel debate is a bit of a can of worms. Maybe better avoided.

I could get behind the introduction of a Hero variant (or just another variant) which added some omni-pods that contained additional hard points to the chassis.

I love the Summoner and view it as one of the most iconic Mechs in the game. However, I do not own one because it is just not a decent Mech at its weight in its present state. The only build I could see myself using is the 2 x CERPPC plus TC5 but I am not buying three Summoners to Elite just to make that build.

Maybe it we all send Russ a Twitter message begging him to fix the Summoner he would get tired of reading them and do something.

[dervishx5]

Navid A1, on 14 July 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

This was the position at a time long past:





Silence afterwards.

They plan to add it after the meeting with the big unit leaders.

[Navid A1]

dervishx5, on 14 July 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

They plan to add it after the meeting with the big unit leaders.

The meeting with the big unit leaders is about faction warfare AFAIK

[dervishx5]

Navid A1, on 14 July 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

The meeting with the big unit leaders is about faction warfare AFAIK

Oh. And here I thought it was about empty promises and gestures.

[Navid A1]

dervishx5, on 14 July 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Oh. And here I thought it was about empty promises and gestures.

Its just what i heard.

FW phase 3 was a fail. PGI wants to know what can be done to force more people into the FW torture chamber.

NOTHING regarding balance, game mechanics, or related features are going to be discussed. period!

[Hit the Deck]

Navid A1, on 14 July 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

The meeting with the big unit leaders is about faction warfare AFAIK

It could very well be for determining the amount of the said quirk, like +100% or +101%.

[dervishx5]

Navid A1, on 14 July 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Its just what i heard.

FW phase 3 was a fail. PGI wants to know what can be done to force more people into the FW torture chamber.

NOTHING regarding balance, game mechanics, or related features are going to be discussed. period!

The joke was it wasn't going to happen much like how the meeting with the unit leaders isn't going to happen.

[Deathlike]

To the OP's thread title...

Because reasons.

In most cases, the lack of Clan Endo/FF on many Omnimechs only serve to be a detriment. The only exception to be made was with the Hellbringer, but since the ECM changes (reduced "cloak" radius), it has kinda fallen by the wayside. Pretty much most mechs that don't have both installed (with the exception of the Dire Wolf, which doesn't really need it - maybe Clan Endo at best) are pretty much not considered as effective or efficient as they could be. This includes the Executioner, Gargoyle (Mr. Gargles), Summoner, Nova, and a few others (Warhawk, Hellbringer, Maddog).

Inevitably, the lack of understanding of balance by PGI and our balance overlord is mostly the issue at hand.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2016 - 10:48 AM.