75 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Wait, you mean like the undercompetitive IS robots like Commandos and Vindicators?

You could easily quirk up the Summoner more and get better results if they wanted to. Rewriting the entire Omnimech system for stuff like this just puts things closer to them being mix-and-match versions of standard robots.

[MauttyKoray]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

PGI will simply give the SHS IS omnis increased heat loss quirk, just like the Locusts. So instead of asking for unlocked Endo for the Summoner, you should ask for more quirks.

Such as 200% ammo quirk...

I think you mean 300-500% jumpjet quirks

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 20 July 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

I think you mean 300-500% jumpjet quirks

Summoner jumps fine, at least compared to the other crippled hoverjet carriers in game.

[Navid A1]

MauttyKoray, on 20 July 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

I think you mean 300-500% jumpjet quirks

Summoner jump jets are fine.

It needs 50-75% ammo quirk/module. Or locked endo instead of ferro

[Battlemaster56]

Endo is nice for the Summoner, but I rather have the Thor II it have 30.5 tons to work with since it remove the jumpjets and the prime varient have a nice mix of weapons, rest of the alt.config pretty much like the normal summoner's alt.config, also it's up in pgi alley of least amount work to implement.

[50 50]

I know players who love the summoner.
The precedence mentioned with the Adder is not a viable argument.
It was the only mech in the game with a locked weapon point, the flamer may have been standard issue on all variants, but this shouldn't have meant the hardpoint was locked.
If anyone can provide another example of a mech where the weapon cannot be removed speak up.

As for changing structural options such as endo steel and ferro fibrous.... double heat sinks and even the engins on the omni mechs, I have to vote against any such changes.
Ammo quirks? Hoo boy. I reckon that will just be a terrible option. Too many other mechs out there where players will want to take less ammo and more weapons just because. No... I have to vote against that one as well.

You also don't want to turn the mech into a slightly lighter Timerwolf... if you do that, why would you take the Summoner at all? Why is it even being compared to the Timber?

The Summoner is a support mech with good speed and agility for it's tonnage. There are other clan mechs in similar positions (Gladiator/Ice Ferret). This does not make them useless. It just means playing in a different role and contributing to the success of the team in a different way. If you look at all the clan mechs you start to see similarities with the different chassis.

The best option at this point... put forward a suggestion for a new loyalty mech for the Summoner. The F and G variants have some interesting options.
The F has a ballistic and energy point in each arm plus a missile point and a laser point in the torso.
The G looks like it has 3 energy as well as 6 missile points.
Tell me that wouldn't change up the game for you.

[Dirus Nigh]

If the summoner gets endo steel can I change the hard points on my IS mechs around like the summoner can?

[InspectorG]

Summoner needs:

2E arms with 33% ERLL duration reduction.

ERPPC arm with 30% velocity, Current cooldown and -20% heat reduction. A 3ERPPC Poptart would be unique and 30PPFLD isnt OP.

New Arm pods with 2M each with Streak-SRM cooldown 30%.

RT pod with either 50% MG RoF or UAC jam reduction 40%, Dakka Velocity+15%, Dakka Cooldown+20%

All Variants get DOUBLE ammo bonus per ton.

Face it, wait aint getting Endo. Might as well quirk it.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Ok, let me put forth an additional argument for Summoner (and other underperforming Omnimechs) to have ES.

That Summoner does not have ES is a point of lore and TT rules that was arbitrarily decided upon for an entirely different game than MWO.

There are so many departures from lore and TT rules that this one further departure can do nothing except benefit the game and the 'Mech(s) in question.

PGI can decide to depart from lore and TT rules on this point if they want to. And they should.

[Navid A1]

Dirus Nigh, on 20 July 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

If the summoner gets endo steel can I change the hard points on my IS mechs around like the summoner can?

Summoner getting locked endo you mean?... which is perfectly according to omni mech construction rules?


IS mechs are on super steroids when it comes to hardpoint inflation. A ppc gives them 3 E hardpoints by default... and they can change engines and upfrades with no limits... do you want even more?...

Now when someone asks for LOCKED endo instead of FF on summoner, the freebirths cry for god mode for their already super boosted mechs.
...you delusional freebirth

[InspectorG]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 20 July 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

PGI can decide to depart from lore and TT rules on this point if they want to. And they should.

Dude, its not bout Lore. its not about TT rules.

Its about player want and ease of implementation.

We are only gonna get quirks and MAYBE ST pods with E.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

InspectorG, on 20 July 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

Summoner needs:

2E arms with 33% ERLL duration reduction.

ERPPC arm with 30% velocity, Current cooldown and -20% heat reduction. A 3ERPPC Poptart would be unique and 30PPFLD isnt OP.

New Arm pods with 2M each with Streak-SRM cooldown 30%.

RT pod with either 50% MG RoF or UAC jam reduction 40%, Dakka Velocity+15%, Dakka Cooldown+20%

All Variants get DOUBLE ammo bonus per ton.

Face it, wait aint getting Endo. Might as well quirk it.

I just cant condone the Quirk approach. It's power creep that begets power creep.

Introduce Ammo Quirks (and they would have to be +100% to be worth it for Summoner) and it's so easy to apply it to way too many 'Mechs.

Then, just like Structure Quirks, we look to it as "Standard" and any 'Mech that doesn't have them is subpar.

But ES is a clear and one time change that is no-transferrable beyond a certain point. Since the best 'Mechs already ES, they can't get it again.

On the other hand, 'Mechs that already have ES might be cried over to get Ammo Quirks because "Ballistics build aren't viable on X variant!" And they shouldn't get them.

But Quirks HAVE shown slippery slope in the past. Started small and "for flavor and help underperformers". Now taken for granted on all 'Mechs; no good Quirks, no good 'Mech.

InspectorG, on 20 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Dude, its not bout Lore. its not about TT rules.

Its about player want and ease of implementation.

We are only gonna get quirks and MAYBE ST pods with E.

No, it's about choice and good decision making.

[Rinkata Prime]

Idk what are you talking about. Summoner is ok now.
It is not so hard to reach 700-900 and even over 1k damage in a match using Summoner.
Dual ERPPC works well in all cases and ERPCC+UAC10 works better against bulky targets.
Summoner wellquirked already.

Edited by Rinkata Kimiku, 20 July 2016 - 08:19 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Navid A1, on 20 July 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Summoner getting locked endo you mean?... which is perfectly according to omni mech construction rules?


IS mechs are on super steroids when it comes to hardpoint inflation. A ppc gives them 3 E hardpoints by default... and they can change engines and upfrades with no limits... do you want even more?...

Now when someone asks for LOCKED endo instead of FF on summoner, the freebirths cry for god mode for their already super boosted mechs.
...you delusional freebirth

Oh please cry me a river.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Rinkata Kimiku, on 20 July 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Idk what are you talking about. Summoner is ok now.
It is not so hard to reach 700-900 and even over 1k damage in a match using Summoner.
Dual ERPPC works well in all cases and ERPCC+UAC10 works better against bulky targets.
Summoner wellquirked already.

Yes, it's possible. But it's much less likely to happen for most people in a Summoner than in other 'Mechs in class.

I, too, can make the Summoner perform. But it takes the stars aligning for a truly great match to materialize.

But just give it that extra 3.5 tons and it can compete with it's in-class counterparts on a level playing field

[InspectorG]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 20 July 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

No, it's about choice and good decision making.

Should be...but its not. Look at PGI's track record.

And your Slippery Slope argument is bunk. You claim Quirks are power creep, the same can be said for ES free tonnage.

Give the Summoner ES, players will want that for the other non-ES Omnis and BOOM slippery slope. ONE TIME FIX?
Sure, until they also do it for the Warhawk, et...

Then free tonnage becomes the power creep, see slippery slope right there as well. The Summoner will on paper = the Timby, but, 'power creep' will shift to the mechs with the better geometry and hardpoint location-inflation.

And, no, quirks have not been a slippery slope Power Creep. Some cases, yes, most no.

Quirked Vindiators are still garbage.

Altlas has Critical Reduction quirks...dont see those rampant on all the Clan Gauss boats.

Those rampant structure quirks were there to balance IS vs Clan...AND... even out geometry problems like the HBK's Hunch.

Im not seeing insane Structure quirks on the Stalker.

More to the point though. Pray for ES all you want. PGI tends not to fix things like that.

C-ACs? Ammo switch?

Command Console?

Stealth Armor ECM??? Took the easy route on range reduction, yes?

BAP?

Pinpoint Skill?

Mech Modules that arent Radar Derp or Seismic? Anyone use the Gyro one???

Scrub tier mechs???

Im not trashing PGI here, the point is the are an average skill company that doesnt really understand their product or what players want from it. It works and is fun enough but has major flaws and many small details left unfixed.

Quirks will be the easiest way to 'fix' the shortcomings of most mechs.