28 replies to this topic

[McMurl]

To all of you bitter vets, you guys remember poptarting? oof was that rough. glad it was removed from the game. However im even sadder at the fact that its a dead tactic. While yes i do think that the poptarting meta was ridiculous, i dont think that it should have 100% removed. Mechs like the quickdraws and highlanders, which were basically designed for poptarting, are basically extinct. (While the quickdraw was the meta earlier this year, it was meta due to mega laser quirks. IMO, especially now, its a great PPC boat, great speed, well placed hardpoints, etc)

So i say bring back the ability to poptart. Remove hoverjets. HOWEVER, only do this for certain mechs. Mechs like the highlander, quickdraw, vindicator should be awesome poptarters. Im also going to include the summoner (it has decent JJs, but make them better, because the summoner isnt as good as its counterparts, i think giving it the ability to poptart with ACs or PPCs would be a great role for it) and the Executioner. Now that the kodiak has largely replaced the Executioner in speedy assaults, i think quirking its jumpjets to be a decent poptarter would be a great role for the Executioner. Highlander IIC as well. Also, remove hoverjets for lights. Because of the resize of most lights, the light mechs have become much easier to kill (save for the locust) so increasing its mobility might be a good idea.

While im for reducing the capabilities of super meta tactics, im against removing them outright. Some mechs fit these tactics REALLY nicely, and bringing back poptarting in a small form will help freshen up the game a bit.

Mechs that should be great poptarters/better jumpjets:

Executioner
Highlander
Highlander IIC
Victor
Summoner
Quickdraw
Vindicator
All light mechs that have JJs, better mobility to counteract the recent ease of killing them.

[LordNothing]

vindicator is a great poptart. stick on a couple ppcs and a full complement of jump jets.

i have nothing against poptarts so long as they are not assault mechs. some low hardpoint count heavies like the summoner are ok. any jetted medium or light should be poptart capable, but at the expense of weaponry. what you dont want is a lot of high alpha poptarts.

it would be cool if your jj performance was related to engine rating, so you have to choose a bigger engine to get better jj performance. this prevents you from giving your medium a lighter engine so they can beef their loadout without cutting jets. this means less tonnage for weaponry if you build to poptart.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 July 2016 - 05:57 PM.

[McMurl]

LordNothing, on 14 July 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

vindicator is a great poptart. stick on a couple ppcs and a full complement of jump jets.

Yeah its not bad at it, but i think it should be better. the damn thing should soar (almost like the cicada)

[Walsung]

nova and shadowhawk poptart ok but in both cases you are impairing already ****** heat management with jj and dropping your dps with waiting for heat and jj recharge. But useful on some maps

[Deathlike]

Someday, Hoverjets™ will not be a thing.

It's great how Medium mechs have better JJ ability than Lights.

Would you like a Mechpack with Hoverjets™?

[Hit the Deck]

Poptart now with BJ-3! Or any 'Mech with the bestest JJ (Class IV).

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Nova PPC poptarting is in.

[Hit the Deck]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 14 July 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

Nova PPC poptarting is in.

Mcgral said that its ability to poptart was nerfed because some omnipods lost heat gen quirks or something (too lazy to dig the patch notes).

[Revis Volek]

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

Mcgral said that its ability to poptart was nerfed because some omnipods lost heat gen quirks or something (too lazy to dig the patch notes).

MLX! FTW!

[Hit the Deck]

Revis Volek, on 14 July 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

MLX! FTW!

Yeah, I've been using it for FP when I'm in the Clan side as a filler. It's jumpy, reasonably fast, and can snipe the enemy from a distance so it gets the job done.

Is it better now (has been buffed of something)?

[Revis Volek]

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yeah, I've been using it for FP when I'm in the Clan side as a filler. It's jumpy, reasonably fast, and can snipe the enemy from a distance so it gets the job done.

Is it better now (has been buffed of something)?

I dont think so, i have ran it for a long time with decent to sometimes amazing success.

[heimdelight]

Before Clans were released, Global Weapon Balance was pretty decent and wasn't too far from being in a good spot. Clans exacerbated these issues, and a nerfing of jumpjets and PPCs was the result. The era of laser vomit began, and before it's initial nerfs I'd argue it was far worse than poptarting ever was. Short duration and incredibly high alpha with long range meant IS poptarts in XL engines would lose a ST instantly. Dual Gauss 4xERML 2xLPL DWFs could essentially brute force their way through any deck of 'Mechs.

A poptart was basically any 'Mech that could handle a long-range projectile platform with high hardpoints, asymmetrical hardpoint layouts or a mix of both. You covered most with you list.

I'd like to see more viable jumpsniping platforms as well. The CTF-3D is just waiting It's a terrible 'Mech for literally everything but jumpsniping.

[Mystere]

grievoussmaug, on 14 July 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

To all of you bitter vets, you guys remember poptarting? oof was that rough. glad it was removed from the game. However im even sadder at the fact that its a dead tactic. While yes i do think that the poptarting meta was ridiculous, i dont think that it should have 100% removed. Mechs like the quickdraws and highlanders, which were basically designed for poptarting, are basically extinct. (While the quickdraw was the meta earlier this year, it was meta due to mega laser quirks. IMO, especially now, its a great PPC boat, great speed, well placed hardpoints, etc)

Well, I myself am not glad it was eliminated. I loved shooting those clay pigeons.

[InspectorG]

heimdelight, on 14 July 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

Before Clans were released, Global Weapon Balance was pretty decent and wasn't too far from being in a good spot. Clans exacerbated these issues, and a nerfing of jumpjets and PPCs was the result. The era of laser vomit began, and before it's initial nerfs I'd argue it was far worse than poptarting ever was. Short duration and incredibly high alpha with long range meant IS poptarts in XL engines would lose a ST instantly. Dual Gauss 4xERML 2xLPL DWFs could essentially brute force their way through any deck of 'Mechs.

A poptart was basically any 'Mech that could handle a long-range projectile platform with high hardpoints, asymmetrical hardpoint layouts or a mix of both. You covered most with you list.

I'd like to see more viable jumpsniping platforms as well. The CTF-3D is just waiting It's a terrible 'Mech for literally everything but jumpsniping.

The Summoner is like, 3/4ths the way there.

Agility is nice.

The ERPPC velocity + TC3+ is boss. 15% E heat reduction helps.

But only 2 ERPPC with 20PPFLD is weak on a heavy. 30 would be better. Splash damage is bunk now as a balance mechanic.

Summoner JJs are ok, until you realize you need to clear well over the beltline of the mech so the gorilla arms can clear terrain.

Really, ST pods with 1E each, and 15 damage ERpeeps would make the Summoner a boss, assuming quirks get left alone.

[XtremWarrior]

LordNothing, on 14 July 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

i have nothing against poptarts so long as they are not assault mechs. some low hardpoint count heavies like the summoner are ok. any jetted medium or light should be poptart capable, but at the expense of weaponry. what you dont want is a lot of high alpha poptarts.

it would be cool if your jj performance was related to engine rating, so you have to choose a bigger engine to get better jj performance. this prevents you from giving your medium a lighter engine so they can beef their loadout without cutting jets. this means less tonnage for weaponry if you build to poptart.

I understand the "no poptart" for Assaults but the mega JJ nerf that happened a long time ago totally broke the 2 Mechs that could use them: Victor and Highlander. Now you don't see any of them, ever.
On top of that, Class-I JJets weight 2 efing tons each! You can literally waste 8 tons on a Mech for nothing! That's amazing!

Those two Assault Mechs were problematic at the time, but now? When quad ac10s Clans and quad ac5s IS roam the fields? Not so much.


I really like your idea of linking JJ power to Engine's size. I see one issue, though: i think JJ should give some kind of evasion/agility tool to a Mech, which should be even more crucial for a Mech with a slow engine.
But if my Victor with 360XLs can fly like they used to, you have my vote.

Edited by XtremWarrior, 15 July 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[kapusta11]

Who knows, 2 Gauss + ERPPC Night Gyr might end up being a decent poptart.

[Elizander]

Griffins fly really high with 2 PPCs :3

[jss78]

grievoussmaug, on 14 July 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Yeah its not bad at it, but i think it should be better. the damn thing should soar (almost like the cicada)

IMO with 6 JJ a Vindicator (or a Phoenix Hawk) actually jumps great. And they actually get a really nice return as you add JJ's beyond the conventional 1-2. These should be a gold standard on how JJ's should perform.

For heavy mediums the return gets a bit worse, but even a Shadow Hawk or a Wolverine jumps pretty nicely with 5 JJ, and takes off quite a bit better than with 2 JJ.

Though granted the 8 JJ Cicada is completely ludicrous and some of the best fun to be had in this game

[Yellonet]

^{Yes, jumping is fun. More jumping please.}
Mediums should be the norm as to how powerful JJ's should be compared to mech weight.
I wasn't playing MWO during the pop tarting but I can't really imagine it being as big a problem as some people make it out to be.

Maybe the cooldown/charge should be exponentially longer the longer you burn the JJ's, or maybe each JJ should come with a fixed amount of fuel so that you have a limited amount for each match.
But then I was also like to have vectored JJ's so that you can have more control while in the air. Ah... so much fun it would be....

Edited by Yellonet, 15 July 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Lily from animove]

there are enough mechs capable of doing so. we don't need poptarting to be the meta (again).

Hit the Deck, on 14 July 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

Mcgral said that its ability to poptart was nerfed because some omnipods lost heat gen quirks or something (too lazy to dig the patch notes).

yes you don't get the ST's with the heatquirks but that doesn't makes the poptarting not working, it's just not that amazing anymore.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 July 2016 - 02:22 AM.